Uniformity of Mormon Sacred Architecture

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This is St. Elizabeth’s Catholic University Parish here in town. I like it. This is about as fancy as our architecture gets around here.
 
dianaiad said:
Why are there pedophile priests, Paul? Why are the Swiss Guards some of the best trained military troops in the world, and are armed to the teeth? Why are there locks on the poor box at St. Patricks’ cathedral?

The answer to all these questions, yours and mine, is the same; predators go where the prey is. The greatest evil prefers to attack where the greatest good is, and thieves prosper best among the trusting. That pedophiles choose the Catholic priesthood as a hunting ground is not a condemnation of the priesthood; it’s a compliment. A wolf puts on sheep’s clothing, not a lion’s mane, after all, and hunts among the fold, not the pride. There is a lock on the poor box because the assumption is that people will put money in it; an empty box isn’t going to get robbed. The Swiss Guards are trained well because people will do what they must to get close to the Pope, to hurt him–including masquerade as priests.

…and Temple attendee’s property was stolen because they trusted each other not to steal. It only takes one wolf.

Putting padlocks on the lockers simply acknowledges reality; there are wolves. Shoot,some of the videos taken of Temple ceremonies that you can find on the internet were taken by people who deliberately went through the process to get a recommend, specifically so that they could betray the faith they claimed to have. I personally would call that a far bigger betrayal, myself, but your milage may vary.

Either way, Paul, this post is an unworthy snipe.
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Agreed. Paul, you are beginning to present a rather extremist, accusatory viewpoint. There are already threads for that! This one is about architecture…
 
dianaiad said:
er…OK…sorry about getting all historically academic on you.

You know which Catholic (modern…the ancient Catholic cathedrals are in classes by themselves and have no peers) cathedral I like? Mostly because it, well, has to grow on you, and the interior is so gloriously unexpected given what the outside looks like?

Liverpool.
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As a Star Trek buff, that makes me think of where a converted Klingon might worship!

chadmax.com/stills/image16.htm
 
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dianaiad:
Why are there pedophile priests, Paul? Why are the Swiss Guards some of the best trained military troops in the world, and are armed to the teeth? Why are there locks on the poor box at St. Patricks’ cathedral?
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Mormons claim that their bishops possess “the gift of discernment”, a sort of mind-reading that lets the bishop know who is worthy and who is lying in a temple recommend interview. Apparently that is not true, since predators are routinely given temple recommends. I am currently reading Salamander: The Story of the Mormon Forgery Murders. I found it interesting that Mark Hofmann held a current temple recommend at the time he killed two innocent people. So much for the gift of discernment.

There are people in every religion (even clergy) who do not live it. We all accept that and know that we cannot judge a religion by those who refuse to live by its precepts. But the exagerated claims of the Mormons with regard to their bishops’ gifts of “discernment” (obviously meant to intimidate the weak-minded) fail in the cold light of reality. That is the point.
 
Paul, please stay ON TOPIC

Here is a good picture,
Daily mass would be good for cardio

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Todd520 said:
Paul, please stay ON TOPIC
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Todd,
Have you appointed yourself moderator, or perhaps prophet?

I was answering a question from your fellow god-in-embryo, Diana.

Do you object to someone anwering a question? Do you imagine yourself to have the authority or standing to object to someone answering a question posed to him?

If you have some objection, report it to the moderator instead of usurping that authority to yourself.

Typical Mormon arrogance.
 
PaulDupre said:
Todd,
Have you appointed yourself moderator, or perhaps prophet?

I was answering a question from your fellow god-in-embryo, Diana.

Do you object to someone anwering a question? Do you imagine yourself to have the authority or standing to object to someone answering a question posed to him?

If you have some objection, report it to the moderator instead of usurping that authority to yourself.

Typical Mormon arrogance.
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I used 'Please" and why must I compalin to the moderator when I can openly state my thought.
You were throwing insults instead of answering a question, where is your integrity?
 
Todd520 said:
I used 'Please" and why must I compalin to the moderator when I can openly state my thought.
You were throwing insults instead of answering a question, where is your integrity?
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Lame, Todd, very lame. You don’t really believe this fairy tale, I can tell. You remind me of myself 35 years ago. You want very much to believe in Joseph Smith, but you don’t, not really. You can’t shut off your mind, Todd, the mind that God in His goodness gave you. The more you try to believe a falsehood, the darker and less reasonable your thinking will get. Listen to your conscience and your higher brain. God gave them to you to protect you from Satanic deceptions like Mormonism.
 
Another used the “ugly stick”
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Todd520 said:
Paul, please stay ON TOPIC

Here is a good picture,
Daily mass would be good for cardio

(I deleted the picture of Mont St. Michel)
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I never tire of seeing pictures of Mont St. Michel. It is a wonder to behold. There are so many grand Cathedrals in the world. Yet, some of the most spiritual places you will find is in very small, out-of-the-way chapels found along the Camino de Santiago de Compostela beginning in Le Puy and trekking all the way to Santiago de Compostela.

I have found similar places in the USA. Small white country churches with aged pews that seat no more than 30 people.

Yes, we have so many grand places of worship, but thanks be to our God that where two or more are gathered in his great name, His spirit will attend.
 
PaulDupre said:
Lame, Todd, very lame. You don’t really believe this fairy tale, I can tell. You remind me of myself 35 years ago. You want very much to believe in Joseph Smith, but you don’t, not really. You can’t shut off your mind, Todd, the mind that God in His goodness gave you. The more you try to believe a falsehood, the darker and less reasonable your thinking will get. Listen to your conscience and your higher brain. God gave them to you to protect you from Satanic deceptions like Mormonism.
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I wonder if anybody would report me if I wrote the above, and changed some important words:

“Lame, Paul, very lame. You don’t really believe this fairy tale, I can tell. You remind me of myself 35 years ago. You want very much to believe in Sacred Tradition, but you don’t, not really. You can’t shut off your mind, Paul, the mind that God in His goodness gave you. The more you try to believe a falsehood, the darker and less reasonable your thinking will get. Listen to your conscience and your higher brain. God gave them to you to protect you from Satanic deceptions like Catholicism.”

Of course, I would never, and have never, written anything even remotely similar to the above. I would not write something like this even if it were not specifically against the forum rules, and would get me suspended or worse. I have to wonder, though,…does anybody else here care, or are words like the ones you write here considered acceptable because,hey, it doesn’t count if you are talking about Mormons?

Never mind, as much as I have enjoyed seeing the beautiful photographs and examples of imaginative and great archetectural art–from both of our traditions, since you simply cannot stop taking uncivil and off topic potshots, I’m outa here.

you win.
 
PaulDupre said:
Mormons claim that their bishops possess “the gift of discernment”, a sort of mind-reading that lets the bishop know who is worthy and who is lying in a temple recommend interview. Apparently that is not true, since predators are routinely given temple recommends. I am currently reading Salamander: The Story of the Mormon Forgery Murders. I found it interesting that Mark Hofmann held a current temple recommend at the time he killed two innocent people. So much for the gift of discernment.

There are people in every religion (even clergy) who do not live it. We all accept that and know that we cannot judge a religion by those who refuse to live by its precepts. But the exagerated claims of the Mormons with regard to their bishops’ gifts of “discernment” (obviously meant to intimidate the weak-minded) fail in the cold light of reality. That is the point.
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Brother Paul, the power of discernment is taught about in more places than the Mormon Church. I caution you to not set the standard so high for Mormons that you find Catholicism failing the same standard. Those who live by the sword will die by it.

All Christian religions are made of vessels weak and feeble regardless of their calling in life. We all know about how often those in sacred callings fall short. When we live in a glass house we should not through stones.
 
JeanMichel said:
Brother Paul, the power of discernment is taught about in more places than the Mormon Church. I caution you to not set the standard so high for Mormons that you find Catholicism failing the same standard. Those who live by the sword will die by it.

All Christian religions are made of vessels weak and feeble regardless of their calling in life. We all know about how often those in sacred callings fall short. When we live in a glass house we should not through stones.
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Catholicism does not claim that our clergy can read minds.
 
PaulDupre said:
Catholicism does not claim that our clergy can read minds.
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The Catechism teaches us the following:

*801 It is in this sense that discernment of charisms is always necessary. No charism is exempt from being referred and submitted to the Church’s shepherds. “Their office [is] not indeed to extinguish the Spirit, but to test all things and hold fast to what is good,” so that all the diverse and complementary charisms work together “for the common good.”

1676 Pastoral discernment is needed to sustain and support popular piety and, if necessary, to purify and correct the religious sense which underlies these devotions so that the faithful may advance in knowledge of the mystery of Christ. Their exercise is subject to the care and judgment of the bishops and to the general norms of the Church.

2690 The Holy Spirit gives to certain of the faithful the gifts of wisdom, faith and discernment for the sake of this common good which is prayer (spiritual direction). Men and women so endowed are true servants of the living tradition of prayer.

According to St. John of the Cross, the person wishing to advance toward perfection should “take care into whose hands he entrusts himself, for as the master is, so will the disciple be, and as the father is so will be the son.” And further: “In addition to being learned and discreet a director should be experienced. . . . If the spiritual director has no experience of the spiritual life, he will be incapable of leading into it the souls whom God is calling to it, and he will not even understand them.” *

Paul, there is a difference between what Mormon Bishops are said to be granted as they serve as a bishop and the discernment that all Catholics and clergy are encouraged to use in their lives as found in the Catechism. However, the priesthood is called to use discernment to build up the Body of Christ.

The Mormon church struggles in their own way to serve God, to aid their people in seeking holiness and righteousness. The Catholic Church may know a straighter path to the goal that all Christianity seeks, but let us know judge our brothers and sisters outside of the Holy Mother Church with a standard we cannot keep ourselves.

A Mormon bishop fails in his discernment; was it the will of God that he do so? Was it something else? Have no Mormon bishops ever shown this ability to discern? Do you think our priests and bishops have always been perfect? Should they be judged with the same standard of perfection you use against the Mormon bishop? God forbid.
 
A Mormon bishop fails in his discernment; was it the will of God that he do so? Was it something else? Have no Mormon bishops ever shown this ability to discern? Do you think our priests and bishops have always been perfect? Should they be judged with the same standard of perfection you use against the Mormon bishop? God forbid.
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Mormon bishops usually have no training in psychology, and their culture does not lend itself to the concept of “servant leadership” that Jesus taught. A Catholic priest gives up a lot on the way to becoming a priest, and has to pass through many screens for selfish intent. Informed discernment is much different from discernment claimed through divine intervention alone. A Mormon bishop on his way to becoming a bishop often has gaining power and prestige as his goal.
 
zaffiroborant said:
I don’t know I like it, though it may be like the Liverpool cathedral and it’s the shot of it I like and the building itself not so much. I also like the RLDS (right?) shell temple, inside and out:shrug:
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Yea, alot depends on the angle of photo, and your mood when viewing. Also most structures look much better at night with goo lighting.

This one is intriguing, but I don’t like it for a Temple (Monte Grisa)

 
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