Unitarians?

[ahimsaman72]

Gerry Hunter:

Chesterton was, of course, a Christian and a Catholic, so your disagreement is hardly surprising.

As for the “many forms of truth”, it cannot be true that God is and is not a Trinity, and that Jesus Christ is and is not “THE way, THE truth, and THE life”, to quote Him.

It is hardly respectful to keep calling it “your [my] assessment” when it has been clearly identified to you as not being mine, but being the teaching of the Church.

Scripture you say? Fine. From the Catechism, quoting Scripture:

553 Jesus entrusted a specific authority to Peter: “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” [Mt 16:19.] The “power of the keys” designates authority to govern the house of God, which is the Church. Jesus, the Good Shepherd, confirmed this mandate after his Resurrection: “Feed my sheep.”[Jn 21:15-17; cf. 10:11.] The power to “bind and loose” connotes the authority to absolve sins, to pronounce doctrinal judgements, and to make disciplinary decisions in the Church. Jesus entrusted this authority to the Church through the ministry of the apostles [Cf. Mt 18:18.] and in particular through the ministry of Peter, the only one to whom he specifically entrusted the keys of the kingdom.

The Church has both the authority and the duty to do as she does.
Whether or not any given person acknowledges that authority is as may be. No statement of the Catholic position can be made without reference to it, so a monist frame of reference is right out.

Blessings,

Gerry

Peace Gerry.

I don’t disagree with Chesterton because he was Catholic. I disagreed with his statement - that’s all. I like Catholics just fine and agree with them on many issues.

I have meant no disrespect at all in referring to “your” assessments. I understand the Catholic Church espouses what you have proposed. It is their teaching and assessment as well as yours, is it not? Can’t it be both? They have authoritatively defined certain things and you believe those things and affirm that they are true. How is that disrespectful?

My Baptist faith has asserted certain things. I believe them to be true. Their assertion is the same as mine. They are the same. How can I separate them? If we both believe them and teach them, we are the same.

I believe you have taken my tone and words as disrespectful and hostile. I assure you I have no such intent. Is it possible you find my beliefs revolting and are angry with them and not me?

The authority issue has been played out on many threads here which I have been a part of. It is of no use to speak of it - as I’m afraid we will reach the same conclusions most have found. We will agree to disagree - or if you would like me to say - We (the Catholic Church and I) will agree to disagree. You see what I mean?

Peace…

Peace…

 

[Ahimsa]

Hi Chris,

It’s been good talking to you too. I agree that there is no reason to assume that Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, etc., are all paths up the same mountain. Maybe they are different paths up different mountains.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

ahimsaman72:

I have meant no disrespect at all in referring to “your” assessments. I understand the Catholic Church espouses what you have proposed. It is their teaching and assessment as well as yours, is it not? Can’t it be both? They have authoritatively defined certain things and you believe those things and affirm that they are true. How is that disrespectful?

They are the truth, whether I, or anyone else, holds them, because they are set out by the Church which is protected from teaching error by God the Holy Spirit. They are “mine” only in that they are that which I have been given by the Church, which itself was given them in the Deposit of the Faith.

They are no more “mine” than my wife is “mine”, even though she is indeed my wife. The lack of respect comes in ascribing them to me as would disrespect to my wife come from identifying her as my chattle – which would upset me, too.

ahimsaman72:

I believe you have taken my tone and words as disrespectful and hostile. I assure you I have no such intent. Is it possible you find my beliefs revolting and are angry with them and not me?

Revolting, no, just erroneous, and to be uncompromisingly labelled as such, particularly on a Catholic list. Remember, this thread was started by a Catholic, seeking Catholic guidance.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[Ahimsa]

It is bad when one thing becomes two. One should not look for anything else in the Way of the Samurai. It is the same for anything that is called a Way. Therefore, it is inconsistent to hear something of the Way of Confucius or the Way of the Buddha, and say that this is the Way of the Samurai. If one understands things in this manner, he should be able to hear about all Ways and be more and more in accord with his own.
**

• –Tsunetomo Yamamoto (1659-1719)***

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

Ahimsa:

Quoted
**

• –Tsunetomo Yamamoto (1659-1719)***

Would that quote be from Hagakure, The Book of the Samurai, wherein the author gives advice on samurai pederasty?

Not exactly an authoritative source for Christian moral guidance.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[Ahimsa]

Gerry Hunter:

Would that quote be from Hagakure, The Book of the Samurai, wherein the author gives advice on samurai pederasty?

Not exactly an authoritative source for Christian moral guidance.

Blessings,

Gerry

Pederasty thus makes the statement above false?

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

Ahimsa:

Pederasty thus makes the statement above false?

No, it makes the source suspect, due the monist and synchretistic context, which can combine thoughts somewhat indiscriminantly, and is therefore inappropriate for Christian guidance.

Also, it is one thing for a man to call something a “way”, and another for God Incarnate to tell us He is the way, which means, in logic, that there is equivocation on the word “way” when the quote is offerred for Christian guidance.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[chrisb]

Ahimsa:

Hi Chris,

It’s been good talking to you too. I agree that there is no reason to assume that Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, etc., are all paths up the same mountain. Maybe they are different paths up different mountains.

In nomine Jesu I offer you peace Ahimsa,

I don’t know if I would suggest that they are “all” different mountains. I guess I would stick with that old Orthodox saying: “I know where grace is, but I don’t know where it isn’t”.

I am a Contemplative Catholic Christian and I truly recognize the beauty in any path that brings one peace and virtue. I guess I am cautious as I walk my path but my caution could as well be my error so I don’t attempt to make too many statements but I do think that the objectives are articulated very differently and that difference cause me to walk cautiously. As many say: “the devil is in the details”.

It’s been wonderful talking to you and Ahimsaman72. We should all strike up a conversation of our own in a new thread sometime.

If either of you are Christian or Catholic I hope each of you continue to have a reflective Advent Season.

Peace, Love and Blessings,

 

[ahimsaman72]

Gerry Hunter:

They are the truth, whether I, or anyone else, holds them, because they are set out by the Church which is protected from teaching error by God the Holy Spirit. They are “mine” only in that they are that which I have been given by the Church, which itself was given them in the Deposit of the Faith.

They are no more “mine” than my wife is “mine”, even though she is indeed my wife. The lack of respect comes in ascribing them to me as would disrespect to my wife come from identifying her as my chattle – which would upset me, too.

Revolting, no, just erroneous, and to be uncompromisingly labelled as such, particularly on a Catholic list. Remember, this thread was started by a Catholic, seeking Catholic guidance.

Blessings,

Gerry

We must have a great misunderstanding because I still don’t see how I offended you so. I’ve already told you I’ve meant no disrespect and my intentions were pure. You have taken my comments (I’m afraid) out of context and taken them to mean something they weren’t meant to be. I wish you peace.

Yes, I realize the thread was started by a Catholic seeking Catholic guidance. I admitted that the thread has gone off topic. Maybe another thread can be started on Buddhism and you will not feel the need to be there. Unitarianism is an open faith and as such - Buddhism has some merits - because some Unitarians are Buddhists.

Don’t have such a chip on your shoulder.

 

[ahimsaman72]

chrisb:

In nomine Jesu I offer you peace Ahimsa,

I don’t know if I would suggest that they are “all” different mountains. I guess I would stick with that old Orthodox saying: “I know where grace is, but I don’t know where it isn’t”.

I am a Contemplative Catholic Christian and I truly recognize the beauty in any path that brings one peace and virtue. I guess I am cautious as I walk my path but my caution could as well be my error so I don’t attempt to make too many statements but I do think that the objectives are articulated very differently and that difference cause me to walk cautiously. As many say: “the devil is in the details”.

It’s been wonderful talking to you and Ahimsaman72. We should all strike up a conversation of our own in a new thread sometime.

If either of you are Christian or Catholic I hope each of you continue to have a reflective Advent Season.

Peace, Love and Blessings,

Chris - it has been a pleasure speaking with you as well. Yes, I agree about a new thread. I enjoy discussing these kinds of things. It doesn’t mean we have to somehow change our beliefs or each other - which has been the really neat thing about our conversations here. Our conversations have been filled with kindness, openness and respect for each other - which is an unusual but welcome event here on the forums.

I am a Southern Baptist Christian by birth and continue to practice and attend church today - although not as regular as in the past. Some would say I’m not a true Christian because of my beliefs and practice, but it is true that no one knows the hearts of individuals and only God can make righteous judgements. I have been open to Catholicism in the recent past - even considering conversion. I continue to remain open, but at this point would not be ready to do so. Thank you for your kindness and respect.

I hope to see you around the corner here.

May peace, joy and happiness be yours this Christmas season!

ahimsaman72

 

[chrisb]

ahimsaman72:

Chris - it has been a pleasure speaking with you as well. Yes, I agree about a new thread. I enjoy discussing these kinds of things. It doesn’t mean we have to somehow change our beliefs or each other - which has been the really neat thing about our conversations here. Our conversations have been filled with kindness, openness and respect for each other - which is an unusual but welcome event here on the forums.

I am a Southern Baptist Christian by birth and continue to practice and attend church today - although not as regular as in the past. Some would say I’m not a true Christian because of my beliefs and practice, but it is true that no one knows the hearts of individuals and only God can make righteous judgements. I have been open to Catholicism in the recent past - even considering conversion. I continue to remain open, but at this point would not be ready to do so. Thank you for your kindness and respect.

In nomine Jesu I offer you peace Ahimsaman72,

That is really interesting! I grew up Baptist and married a wonderful devout Baptist Girl who renewed my faith and put me back on the path of walking with Christ our Lord. So half of our Family is Catholic and half are Baptist.

I started another thread “A polite discourse on Syncretism” which you and Ahimsa should join me in. We can talk about any other faith and how it illuminates truths shared with Christianity. I hope to see you both there.

Peace, Love and Blessings,

 

[ahimsaman72]

chrisb:

In nomine Jesu I offer you peace Ahimsaman72,

That is really interesting! I grew up Baptist and married a wonderful devout Baptist Girl who renewed my faith and put me back on the path of walking with Christ our Lord. So half of our Family is Catholic and half are Baptist.

I started another thread “A polite discourse on Syncretism” which you and Ahimsa should join me in. We can talk about any other faith and how it illuminates truths shared with Christianity. I hope to see you both there.

Peace, Love and Blessings,

Great - I’ll be there.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

ahimsaman72:

Don’t have such a chip on your shoulder.

:nope: :tsktsk:

 

[4_marks]

wbira:

I am a Catholic and have questions regarding the Unitarians. Can anyone give me information as to their beliefs?
My future brother-in-law has gone from Atheist to Buddhist to Unitarian. It seems he is maturing in his spirituality and I would like to know more about his new denomination so that I can talk with him about it.
Thanks and many Advent Blessings to all!

They don’t really have a set of beliefs and creeds which every Unitarian must adhere to. It’s sort of a generic faith. Most Unitarian/Universalists are educated people. They are often anti-conservative and quite liberal politically. Many are active in social causes.

William Ellery Channing, a New England Minister, was influential in it’s formation, but Unitarians (who merged with the Universalists) also cite the early Christian Bishop Arius as an influence in their literature.

Unitarians and Catholics are united in a common bond of being the targets of religious intolerance and bigotry that both groups faced together in 19th Century America.

For an explanation/synopsis of Unitarianism in the words of W.E.Channing, go here:
transcendentalists.com/unitarian_christianity.htm