United States Citizenship

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bobzills said:
Even though i used those rights, still I have a government that engages in torture and incarceration of accused people. Take a look at the pictures from Abu Ghraib. And recently, there was news that these methods of interrogation were approved at the higher levels. Further, the government forces people to pay taxes to support the killing of unborn children. Why should I have to work and pay taxes to support the killing of children? There is a commandment that I have learned about in catechism class: Thou shalt not kill. And how many millions of these tax dollars are going to waste in Iraq? I have read that many of the officials there are corrupt and the money does not go for its intended target. And how many innocent children have been killed in this war. And what about the horrible chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons that are being built all with the possibility of killing innocent of milions civilians? Is it really moral to pay taxes to support these enterprises?
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Abu Graib was one notch above fraternity hazing. For goodness sake.

If one were to get a piece of paper and fold it down the middle and on one side list all the things the U.S. did and on the other side all the things that Saddam did, the differences would be dramatic.

Interrogation is more than asking prisoners or terrorists to voluntarily tell us all their secrets.

There is no Commandment forbidding war.

Read “Saddam’s Secrets” by Georges Sada

amazon.com/Saddams-Secrets-Georges-Hormuz-Sada/dp/1591454042/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209491786&sr=1-1

Read “Spying on the Bomb” by Jeffrey Richelson.

amazon.com/Spying-Bomb-American-Nuclear-Intelligence/dp/0393329828/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209491666&sr=1-3

And here:

Both In One Trench: Saddam’s Secret Terror Documents (Paperback)
by Ray Robison (Author), Richard Dunaway (Contributor), Sammi Al Hadir (Contributor)

amazon.com/Both-One-Trench-Saddams-Documents/dp/1419678663/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209491964&sr=1-2

We are dealing with serious issues involving utterly merciless totalitarian dictators depriving their “subjects” of essentials such as food … [Oil for Food/ Palaces ??? Remember that?] … and using the money to finance covert chemical/biological/nuclear weapons … and to finance support for al Qaeda. Remember 9/11? al Qaeda? Terrorist attacks all over the world? al Qaeda?

Read up.

weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/014/889pvpxc.asp
 
“I am fully aware of the many shortcomings of this country which include the horrors of abortion and a long list of social injustices. You and the OP may find it chic to regard this as a “temporal and accidental identity” and the OP muses about departing, but I note that both of you are still here, enjoying benefits that far, far outweigh the downside. No one ever promised you that living in a republic means having everything your way. This isn’t Burger King. .”

First, I am a military wife. Second, what I disagree with is your “take it or leave it attitude” that Kendy rightly notes is so typical American. Kendy is wondering about leaving it because Kendy has traveled a bit and knows that America is NOT the only country in this world that enjoys the same rights and privileges that this country has. There are many countries in this world that have the freedoms, wealth and privileges that you seem to think only belong to Americans only speaks of what you do not know than what you believe.
 
Dear Al,

The reading I do is of Our Holy Father Pope Benedict the XVI’s opinion and the opinion of our Bishops that our country illegally and unjustly invaded another country. Very sad that your reading is the Weekly Standard and not your Church leaders’ moral opinions.
 
RCM said:
Dear Al,

The reading I do is of Our Holy Father Pope Benedict the XVI’s opinion and the opinion of our Bishops that our country illegally and unjustly invaded another country. Very sad that your reading is the Weekly Standard and not your Church leaders’ moral opinions.
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Decisions to go to war are based on intelligence information that our Bishops may not have had access to.

Hayes is referring to declassified captured documents that were translated and recently released.

Keep in mind that in previous wars, the Popes personally led the charge … the Crusades into the Holy Land and into Spain and … the Battle of Lepanto … probably others as well.

Rome was not attacked by the Turks at the time of the Battle of Lepanto or at the time of the Crusades.

Catholic Answers has a nice book and CD on Lepanto. Check it out.
 
Wirraway said:
Yes, this is real mature. The OP is posting in a country with guaranteed personal liberties including freedom of speech and he has the gall to trash it as a “temporal and accidental identity”. I assure you, sir, this “temporal and accidental identity” was bought and paid for at a very high cost. Memorial Day is next month, I suggest you spare a few minutes to think about that
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Americans are not the only ones who have fought and died for freedom. I was born in the first country to have a successful slave revolt. And there many other countries in the world where people have died for freedom.

Maybe, I have a problem with the arrogant assumptions that we and only we are good, noble, and brave.

Kendy
 
Wirraway said:
One third of your income is taxed? Horrendous, perhaps incorporation is an option. FYI, here’s a link to tax rates around the world. They’re all comparable to the USA. Bulgaria and Lebanon look promising though.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_rates_around_the_world

No one is saying this is a city on the hill and I don’t consider you “scum”. This country has deep flaws, but on the other hand has unlimited potential. Witness the last 50 years of social and economic reform. The use of strawman argumentation is childish.

Why am I bristling? I am from a family of east European Jewish refugrees who came here in the 1920s. An uncle (Army) I never met earned an unmarked grave in the Philippines in '42. Dad (USN) was in WW2 and Korea. A brother (USN) served in VN. I am a retired naval officer. We – and hundreds of thousands like us – paid for your right to display your ingratitude.
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Most people don’t have a choice. I have a decision to make within the next two years, and I think it’s ok for me to take a critical eye at the community that I live in, and ask myself, Do I want to turn this relationship into a marriage?
 
Al_Masetti said:
Decisions to go to war are based on intelligence information that our Bishops may not have had access to.

Hayes is referring to declassified captured documents that were translated and recently released.

Keep in mind that in previous wars, the Popes personally led the charge … the Crusades into the Holy Land and into Spain and … the Battle of Lepanto … probably others as well.

Rome was not attacked by the Turks at the time of the Battle of Lepanto or at the time of the Crusades.

Catholic Answers has a nice book and CD on Lepanto. Check it out.
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First, I don’t really want to get into the Iraq war. Second, I think now that we have invaded Iraq, we have a moral responsibility to stay in Iraq until we fix it. However, I am disappointed that many catholics will not stand behind the Holy Father and the bishops who said that the invasion of Iraq was not just.

Kendy
 
bobzills said:
Even though i used those rights, still I have a government that engages in torture and incarceration of accused people. Take a look at the pictures from Abu Ghraib. And recently, there was news that these methods of interrogation were approved at the higher levels. Further, the government forces people to pay taxes to support the killing of unborn children. Why should I have to work and pay taxes to support the killing of children? There is a commandment that I have learned about in catechism class: Thou shalt not kill. And how many millions of these tax dollars are going to waste in Iraq? I have read that many of the officials there are corrupt and the money does not go for its intended target. And how many innocent children have been killed in this war. And what about the horrible chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons that are being built all with the possibility of killing innocent of milions civilians? Is it really moral to pay taxes to support these enterprises?
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taxes mostly go into general funds that your federal, state and local governments will use to fund anything from the police, to the army, to relief of AIDS in Africa to student loans to parks. your contribution isn’t earmarked for any specific purpose, so refusing to pay taxes on the grounds that you don’t want to fund the war also means you aren’t funding welfare relief.

so if this is a problem, and you find paying taxes to be immoral, you have limited choices: embrace the concept of civil disobedience with its consequences and don’t pay any tax. Alternatively, attempt to achieve your goals through participation in the democratic process all the while understanding that you will rarely have everything the way you want it.

but I really don’t understand your position. if you consider an act to be immoral, don’t participate.
 
Kendy said:
Maybe, I have a problem with the arrogant assumptions that we and only we are good, noble, and brave.

Kendy
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I think you’ll find that the “only we are good, noble, and brave” attitude is not restricted to the USA; just flipping though a western civilization or world history textbook, an art history textbook, or an anthology of epic poetry will tell it you it has appeared in various forms all over the world. People are people.

Just something to keep in mind in the near future as you make a very important decision that only you can make.

Zirconia
 
RCM said:
“I am fully aware of the many shortcomings of this country which include the horrors of abortion and a long list of social injustices. You and the OP may find it chic to regard this as a “temporal and accidental identity” and the OP muses about departing, but I note that both of you are still here, enjoying benefits that far, far outweigh the downside. No one ever promised you that living in a republic means having everything your way. This isn’t Burger King. .”

First, I am a military wife. Second, what I disagree with is your “take it or leave it attitude” that Kendy rightly notes is so typical American. Kendy is wondering about leaving it because Kendy has traveled a bit and knows that America is NOT the only country in this world that enjoys the same rights and privileges that this country has. There are many countries in this world that have the freedoms, wealth and privileges that you seem to think only belong to Americans only speaks of what you do not know than what you believe.
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I’m a retired naval officer with enough experience to know exactly what I’m talking about. I look forward to the day when all of the world can enjoy our liberties and freedoms.

kendy is here, located in this “temporal and accidental identity” and it is this “temporal and accidental identity” that he is trashing by calling it a “temporal and accidental identity”.

if kendy doesn’t like paying US taxes, by all means, he should explore the rest of the world and find a tax and morals haven more to his liking.
 
Kendy said:
Most people don’t have a choice. I have a decision to make within the next two years, and I think it’s ok for me to take a critical eye at the community that I live in, and ask myself, Do I want to turn this relationship into a marriage?
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why would you want to do that? just renew your green card.
 
RCM said:
Dear Al,

The reading I do is of Our Holy Father Pope Benedict the XVI’s opinion and the opinion of our Bishops that our country illegally and unjustly invaded another country. Very sad that your reading is the Weekly Standard and not your Church leaders’ moral opinions.
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you don’t really want US Bishops or the Holy See making policy decisions for the USA.
 
Economics should not be the sole source of any immigration / citizenship decision. My wife is an immigrant to USA from Philippines. We are hopeful to retire to Cebu Philippines in 11 or 12 years where we can walk to mass every day and help out the poor either through the church or one of the local missions and have a small business there.

If you put God first in your citizenship decision, it will all work out. Ask if this is where you are to be. If you are in real conflict about staying here, then the US is probably not where God wants you.

God bless you.
 
Wirraway said:
I’m a retired naval officer with enough experience to know exactly what I’m talking about. I look forward to the day when all of the world can enjoy our liberties and freedoms.

kendy is here, located in this “temporal and accidental identity” and it is this “temporal and accidental identity” that he is trashing by calling it a “temporal and accidental identity”.

if kendy doesn’t like paying US taxes, by all means, he should explore the rest of the world and find a tax and morals haven more to his liking.
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I am a girl. 😦
 
When you have a chance go visit a vets cemetery…you will see row upon row of white crosses…my dad is there…ww1 …2 brothers ww2 and some day another brother and me…korea …my dad came here from southern italy at the turn of last century…Italy was taken over by marxists in 1870 …my mom arrived a few years later…after 1921 no more Italians were allowed into america!.We are fighting here so that guys like you can write such a note and not get a pounding on the door at 3 am …being un PC is what freedom is all about…we never expect all to appreciate America…just those with common sense and those who love God and want to worship as they choose! The struggle is on…the ACLU and their friends in the controlled media are having a ball with the current three establishment presidential candidates…but we ,like the farmers at lexington and concord (ever hear of them) stand by the bridge and our homes ready to defend …do you attend school and town board meetings,write letters to the papers,call talk shows…then you can stand beside me…if not then please stand aside and let me and my fellow patriots fight for you…

I
 
“If you put God first in your citizenship decision, it will all work out. Ask if this is where you are to be. If you are in real conflict about staying here, then the US is probably not where God wants you.”

That is an excellent point. Maybe the Holy Spirit is making you restless because He wants you somewhere else.

I lived in another country and it was a wonderfully difficult challenging experience. It converted me so to speak and I still have a desire to live elsewhere, but right now I feel God is calling me where I am right now.
 
Wirraway said:
…so if this is a problem, and you find paying taxes to be immoral, you have limited choices: embrace the concept of civil disobedience with its consequences and don’t pay any tax. Alternatively, attempt to achieve your goals through participation in the democratic process all the while understanding that you will rarely have everything the way you want it.
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My goals have not been achieved through the democratic process. A consequence of the democratic process is that it is OK to kill innocent children in the womb. I don;t see how it is moral for a Catholic to go along with this even if he is a superpatriot boasting about how great America is. Also, why impose this culture of death, by means of the vehicle of women’s rights, upon other countries of the world, such as invading Iraq and Afghanistan?
 
bobzills said:
My goals have not been achieved through the democratic process. A consequence of the democratic process is that it is OK to kill innocent children in the womb. I don;t see how it is moral for a Catholic to go along with this even if he is a superpatriot boasting about how great America is. Also, why impose this culture of death, by means of the vehicle of women’s rights, upon other countries of the world, such as invading Iraq and Afghanistan?
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Please … at the very least be accurate. Roe v. Wade had nothing to do with any kind of democratic process. Seven lawyers in Washington overrode democratic/ legislative procedures in all of the individual states. Repeatedly the democratic process [actually it’s a republican process … the United States is a Republic, not a Democracy] has been thwarted by one or two lawyers who create a majority at the Supreme Court.

It has nothing to do with democracy.

And everything to do with judicial activism.

Read Mark Levin’s book, “Men in Black”

or Schlafly’s book, “The Supremacists”

or McGlowan’s book, “Bamboozled”

or Perryman’s book, “Unveiling the Whole Truth”

or Stormer’s book, “Betrayed by the Bench”

or Sutherland’s book, “Judicial Tyranny”

or Folger’s book, “Criminalization of Christianity”

or Levy’s book, “The Dirty Dozen: How Twelve Supreme Court Cases Radically Expanded Government and Eroded Freedom”

amazon.com/Dirty-Dozen-Radically-Expanded-Government/dp/1595230505/ref=sr_1_78?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1209516379&sr=1-78

And there are others.

Please do the reading.
 
I have to say, I think many are getting sidetracked here. The question is not “Is America a great country in many respects?” or “Have many Americans been courageous?” If you ask those questions, the answer is “yes.” That’s not really patriotism, that’s just honesty.

But there’s a a flip side to that coin. Are any other countries great countries in many respects? Have citizens of any other countries been just as courageous? The answer, again, is yes. (We fought for the liberation of Europe while the Brits fought for the liberation of Poland, many have fought for the liberation of others and for the protection of their homeland, and they all deserve commendation.) If we refuse to admit that, we are not patriots; we are natural born jingoists.

Our country has also allowed and done some horrible things, abortion sticking out like a bloody nose above them all. So, of course, have other countries.

So: whoever becomes a citizen here, welcome. Whoever chooses not to, or chooses to continue being an official visitor for a while, welcome as well. If you do not choose to join us, then God bless you.

Patriotism does not mean “my country, right or wrong” nor does it mean desparaging everyone else’s identity, or anyone else’s right not to embrace our identity as their own. Someone mentioned that they have fought for our right to be critical of our nation. Thank you. That is an essential right if freedom is to survive. We have a legitimate right to exercise it; because in any nation, there is much to be critical about, especially in this age. In terms of what is legally allowed and/or supported, we are worse than some, and better than others; and those who refuse to admit their mistakes cannot correct them.

A Burgundian cleric once asked St. Joan of Arc if God hates Englishmen. “No,” she said, “but he loves them better in England.”

In closing, God Bless America; and God Bless Haiti; and God Bless Lithuania; and God Bless Russia; and God Bless Israel; and God Bless Palestine; and God Bless even our political enemies, such as Syria, and Iran, and North Korea…
 
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