United States Citizenship

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I have to say, I think many are getting sidetracked here. The question is not “Is America a great country in many respects?” or “Have many Americans been courageous?” If you ask those questions, the answer is “yes.” That’s not really patriotism, that’s just honesty.

But there’s a a flip side to that coin. Are any other countries great countries in many respects? Have citizens of any other countries been just as courageous? The answer, again, is yes. (We fought for the liberation of Europe while the Brits fought for the liberation of Poland, many have fought for the liberation of others and for the protection of their homeland, and they all deserve commendation.) If we refuse to admit that, we are not patriots; we are natural born jingoists.

Our country has also allowed and done some horrible things, abortion sticking out like a bloody nose above them all. So, of course, have other countries.

So: whoever becomes a citizen here, welcome. Whoever chooses not to, or chooses to continue being an official visitor for a while, welcome as well. If you do not choose to join us, then God bless you.

Patriotism does not mean “my country, right or wrong” nor does it mean desparaging everyone else’s identity, or anyone else’s right not to embrace our identity as their own. Someone mentioned that they have fought for our right to be critical of our nation. Thank you. That is an essential right if freedom is to survive. We have a legitimate right to exercise it; because in any nation, there is much to be critical about, especially in this age. In terms of what is legally allowed and/or supported, we are worse than some, and better than others; and those who refuse to admit their mistakes cannot correct them.

A Burgundian cleric once asked St. Joan of Arc if God hates Englishmen. “No,” she said, “but he loves them better in England.”

In closing, God Bless America; and God Bless Haiti; and God Bless Lithuania; and God Bless Russia; and God Bless Israel; and God Bless Palestine; and God Bless even our political enemies, such as Syria, and Iran, and North Korea…
 
consumedconvert said:
Quite. Not because we deserve it. “Bless us Father, for we have sinned…”
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But do America and its political leaders ask for forgiveness for the culture of death, or do they just go on about how great they are and that they are the best in the world, etc.?
 
consumedconvert said:
I have to say, I think many are getting sidetracked here. The question is not “Is America a great country in many respects?” or “Have many Americans been courageous?” If you ask those questions, the answer is “yes.” That’s not really patriotism, that’s just honesty.

But there’s a a flip side to that coin. Are any other countries great countries in many respects? Have citizens of any other countries been just as courageous? The answer, again, is yes. (We fought for the liberation of Europe while the Brits fought for the liberation of Poland, many have fought for the liberation of others and for the protection of their homeland, and they all deserve commendation.) If we refuse to admit that, we are not patriots; we are natural born jingoists.

Our country has also allowed and done some horrible things, abortion sticking out like a bloody nose above them all. So, of course, have other countries.

So: whoever becomes a citizen here, welcome. Whoever chooses not to, or chooses to continue being an official visitor for a while, welcome as well. If you do not choose to join us, then God bless you.

Patriotism does not mean “my country, right or wrong” nor does it mean desparaging everyone else’s identity, or anyone else’s right not to embrace our identity as their own. Someone mentioned that they have fought for our right to be critical of our nation. Thank you. That is an essential right if freedom is to survive. We have a legitimate right to exercise it; because in any nation, there is much to be critical about, especially in this age. In terms of what is legally allowed and/or supported, we are worse than some, and better than others; and those who refuse to admit their mistakes cannot correct them.

A Burgundian cleric once asked St. Joan of Arc if God hates Englishmen. “No,” she said, “but he loves them better in England.”

In closing, God Bless America; and God Bless Haiti; and God Bless Lithuania; and God Bless Russia; and God Bless Israel; and God Bless Palestine; and God Bless even our political enemies, such as Syria, and Iran, and North Korea…
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America is not unique in having abortion.

But America IS unique in fighting against abortion.

There is this thing referred to as American Exceptionalism.

And it is real.
 
bobzills said:
But do America and its political leaders ask for forgiveness for the culture of death, or do they just go on about how great they are and that they are the best in the world, etc.?
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There are two sets of American political leaders … it is important not to mix them.

There are liberals / socialists.

And there are conservatives / free market supporters.

The liberals support abortion and the culture of death and they also run down the greatness of America and the uniqueness of the American form of Federalism and the American Constitution.

The conservatives oppose abortion, oppose increasing the intrusiveness of government, oppose increasing taxes and support freedom and support the original intent of Federalism and of the Constitution.

And that’s the essence of it.
 
Nino said:
When you have a chance go visit a vets cemetery…you will see row upon row of white crosses…my dad is there…ww1 …2 brothers ww2 and some day another brother and me…korea …my dad came here from southern italy at the turn of last century…Italy was taken over by marxists in 1870 …my mom arrived a few years later…after 1921 no more Italians were allowed into america!.We are fighting here so that guys like you can write such a note and not get a pounding on the door at 3 am …being un PC is what freedom is all about…we never expect all to appreciate America…just those with common sense and those who love God and want to worship as they choose! The struggle is on…the ACLU and their friends in the controlled media are having a ball with the current three establishment presidential candidates…but we ,like the farmers at lexington and concord (ever hear of them) stand by the bridge and our homes ready to defend …do you attend school and town board meetings,write letters to the papers,call talk shows…then you can stand beside me…if not then please stand aside and let me and my fellow patriots fight for you…

I
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that’s well said, Nino.

I read FDR’s four freedoms speech long before I started my service days, but I took them very seriously: freedom of speech, freedom of worship, freedom from fear, freedom from want. although they have been imperfectly achieved here, they are achieved better here than anywhere I’ve seen. its very chic to run down these ideas and trash the country, but that’s an inevitable, if unfortunate consequence of the first freedom.

a walk through a veterans cemetary is very sobering.
 
bobzills said:
My goals have not been achieved through the democratic process. A consequence of the democratic process is that it is OK to kill innocent children in the womb. I don;t see how it is moral for a Catholic to go along with this even if he is a superpatriot boasting about how great America is. Also, why impose this culture of death, by means of the vehicle of women’s rights, upon other countries of the world, such as invading Iraq and Afghanistan?
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truly horrendous. I wish the floods of illegal immigrants adopted your high moral standards and would stay away.

if your goals haven’t been achieved through the democratic process, I don’t see any solution, other than a coup d’etat to install a theocratic regime. I can’t help you there.

speaking of said high moral standards, how do you reconcile them to living in this misbegotten land, assuming you pay taxes which go to funding the War? you are a good Catholic who choses to stay and help fund the War. how do manage???

I too have my doubts about how this “culture of death” expends your tax dollars on AIDS relief in Africa, flood relief in the south Pacific, medicare and probably a thousand other social programs.
 
Al_Masetti said:
There are two sets of American political leaders … it is important not to mix them.

There are liberals / socialists.

And there are conservatives / free market supporters.

The liberals support abortion and the culture of death and they also run down the greatness of America and the uniqueness of the American form of Federalism and the American Constitution.

The conservatives oppose abortion, oppose increasing the intrusiveness of government, oppose increasing taxes and support freedom and support the original intent of Federalism and of the Constitution.

And that’s the essence of it.
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It is not quite the essence of it, because there is the fact that the government takes taxes from our hard earned income to pay for things which many people believe are immoral.
 
Wirraway said:
…speaking of said high moral standards, how do you reconcile them to living in this misbegotten land, assuming you pay taxes which go to funding the War? you are a good Catholic who choses to stay and help fund the War. how do manage??? .
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Not very well.
 
Al_Masetti said:
America is not unique in having abortion.

But America IS unique in fighting against abortion.

There is this thing referred to as American Exceptionalism.

And it is real.
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Really? There are no faithful Catholic citizens in Australia or Europe, or a lot of other countries?

What about Latin American countries? A lot of them don’t even allow abortion.

American citizens are not the only people who fight against abortion.
 
consumedconvert said:
Really? There are no faithful Catholic citizens in Australia or Europe, or a lot of other countries?

What about Latin American countries? A lot of them don’t even allow abortion.

American citizens are not the only people who fight against abortion.
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Absolutely right. I stand corrected:

Source:

reproductiverights.org/pub_fac_abortion_laws.html

Abortion permitted only to Save a Woman’s Life or Prohibited Altogether (countries printed in bold make an explicit exception to save a woman’s life.)

Afghanistan
Andorra
Angola
Antigua & Barbuda
Bangladesh
Bhutan–R/I/+
Brazil–R
Brunei Darussalam
Central African Rep.
Chile–x
Congo (Brazzaville)
Côte d’Ivoire
Dem. Rep. of Congo
Dominica
Dominican Republic
Egypt
El Salvador–x
Gabon
Guatemala
Guinea–Bissau
Haiti
Honduras
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Ireland
Kenya
Kiribati
Laos
Lebanon
Lesotho
Libya–PA
Madagascar
Malawi–SA
Mali-R/I
Malta
Marshall Islands–U
Mauritania
Mauritius
Mexico–?R/F
Micronesia–U
Monaco
Myanmar
Nicaragua–x
Niger
Nigeria
Oman
Palau-U
Panama–PA/R/F
Papua New Guinea
Paraguay
Philippines
San Marino
Sao Tome & Principe
Senegal
Soloman Islands
Somalia
Sri Lanka
Sudan–R
Suriname
Syria–SA/PA
Tanzania
Tonga
Tuvalu
Uganda
United Arab
Emirates–SA/PA
Venezuela
West Ban & Gaza Strip
Yemen

69 Countries, 25.9% of World’s Population

A note on terminology: “Countries” listed on the table include independent states and, where populations exceed one million, semi-autonomous regions, territories and jurisdictions of special status. The table therefore includes Hong Kong, Northern Ireland, Puerto Rico, Taiwan, and the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Gestational Limits Key:
All Countries in Category V have gestational limits of 12 weeks unless otherwise indicated. Gestational limits are calculated from the first day of the last menstrual period, which is considered to occur two weeks prior to conception. Where laws specify that gestational age limits are calculated from the date of conception, these limits have been extended by two weeks.
? - Gestational limit of 90 days
† - Gestational limit of 8 weeks
‡ - Gestational limit of 10 weeks
    • Gestational limit of 14 weeks
      ** - Gestational limit of 18 weeks
      *** - Gestational limit of 24 weeks
      V - Law does not limit pre-viability abortions
      º - Law does not indicate gestational limit; regulatory mechanisms vary
Indications:
R - Abortion permitted in cases of rape
R1 - Abortion permitted in the case of rape of a woman with a mental disability
I - Abortion permitted in cases of incest
F - Abortion permitted in cases of fetal impairment
SA - Spousal authorization required
PA - Parental authorization/notification required
? - Federal system in which abortion law is determined at state level; classification reflects legal status of abortion for largest number of people
x - Recent legislation eliminated all exceptions to prohibition on abortion; availability of defense of necessity (see above) highly unlikely
S - Sex selective abortion prohibited
U - Law unclear
 
Al_Masetti said:
There are two sets of American political leaders … it is important not to mix them.

There are liberals / socialists.

And there are conservatives / free market supporters.

The liberals support abortion and the culture of death and they also run down the greatness of America and the uniqueness of the American form of Federalism and the American Constitution.

The conservatives oppose abortion, oppose increasing the intrusiveness of government, oppose increasing taxes and support freedom and support the original intent of Federalism and of the Constitution.

And that’s the essence of it.
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Wow…how…absolute.

How…either/or

How…protestant in thinking.
 
bobzills said:
It is not quite the essence of it, because there is the fact that the government takes taxes from our hard earned income to pay for things which many people believe are immoral.
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and the government takes taxes from other people to pay for things they believe are immoral but that you don’t believe are so.

like I said, understand the concept of a “general fund”.
 
Al_Masetti said:
Absolutely right. I stand corrected:

Source:

reproductiverights.org/pub_fac_abortion_laws.html

Abortion permitted only to Save a Woman’s Life or Prohibited Altogether (countries printed in bold make an explicit exception to save a woman’s life.)

Afghanistan
Andorra
Angola
Antigua & Barbuda
Bangladesh
Bhutan–R/I/+
Brazil–R
Brunei Darussalam
Central African Rep.
Chile–x
Congo (Brazzaville)
Côte d’Ivoire
Dem. Rep. of Congo
Dominica
Dominican Republic
Egypt
El Salvador–x
Gabon
Guatemala
Guinea–Bissau
Haiti
Honduras
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Ireland
Kenya
Kiribati
Laos
Lebanon
Lesotho
Libya–PA
Madagascar
Malawi–SA
Mali-R/I
Malta
Marshall Islands–U
Mauritania
Mauritius
Mexico–?R/F
Micronesia–U
Monaco
Myanmar
Nicaragua–x
Niger
Nigeria
Oman
Palau-U
Panama–PA/R/F
Papua New Guinea
Paraguay
Philippines
San Marino
Sao Tome & Principe
Senegal
Soloman Islands
Somalia
Sri Lanka
Sudan–R
Suriname
Syria–SA/PA
Tanzania
Tonga
Tuvalu
Uganda
United Arab
Emirates–SA/PA
Venezuela
West Ban & Gaza Strip
Yemen

69 Countries, 25.9% of World’s Population

A note on terminology: “Countries” listed on the table include independent states and, where populations exceed one million, semi-autonomous regions, territories and jurisdictions of special status. The table therefore includes Hong Kong, Northern Ireland, Puerto Rico, Taiwan, and the West Bank and Gaza Strip.
Gestational Limits Key:
All Countries in Category V have gestational limits of 12 weeks unless otherwise indicated. Gestational limits are calculated from the first day of the last menstrual period, which is considered to occur two weeks prior to conception. Where laws specify that gestational age limits are calculated from the date of conception, these limits have been extended by two weeks.
? - Gestational limit of 90 days
† - Gestational limit of 8 weeks
‡ - Gestational limit of 10 weeks
    • Gestational limit of 14 weeks
      ** - Gestational limit of 18 weeks
      *** - Gestational limit of 24 weeks
      V - Law does not limit pre-viability abortions
      º - Law does not indicate gestational limit; regulatory mechanisms vary
Indications:
R - Abortion permitted in cases of rape
R1 - Abortion permitted in the case of rape of a woman with a mental disability
I - Abortion permitted in cases of incest
F - Abortion permitted in cases of fetal impairment
SA - Spousal authorization required
PA - Parental authorization/notification required
? - Federal system in which abortion law is determined at state level; classification reflects legal status of abortion for largest number of people
x - Recent legislation eliminated all exceptions to prohibition on abortion; availability of defense of necessity (see above) highly unlikely

S - Sex selective abortion prohibited
U - Law unclear
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Very well researched. Of course in addition to countries that do not allow abortion, there are many abortion opponents in countries that do, like Great Britain, Australia, Austria, and other nations of Europe.
 
Wirraway said:
and the government takes taxes from other people to pay for things they believe are immoral but that you don’t believe are so.

like I said, understand the concept of a “general fund”.
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Actually, whether something is immoral or not would be an objective fact and not a matter of opinion.
 
bobzills said:
Actually, whether something is immoral or not would be an objective fact and not a matter of opinion.
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consider the act of paying taxes into a general fund (meaning the taxpayer has no direct say in how the tax dollars are spent). from this general fund, congress votes funds for biological warfare research as well as famine relief in Africa. is paying taxes an objectively immoral act?

since you no doubt believe that weaponizing plague is immoral (please correct me if I’m wrong), your clear duty is to refuse to pay taxes. how could you possibly square your conscience otherwise?

it always warms my heart to see people like you stand behind their deeply held convictions. there’s sooo much pretentious and, dare I say, hypocritical, gassing in the world.
 
Al_Masetti said:
America is not unique in having abortion.

But America IS unique in fighting against abortion.

There is this thing referred to as American Exceptionalism.

And it is real.
Click to expand...
As a non-american here I got used to some ignorant comments on the CAF but this one is a winner.
 
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