United States of Sodom and Gomarah

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speakttruth said:
It’ ok. I will still be praying for you to find out. I just thought it might be interesting to you. None the less, I was just trying to help you understand. I know that wasn’t going to convert you instantly. Yesss Spring is coming and we will be renewed and God willing, will be getting into my garden. Have a great day.
GB
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Thank you, I appreciate an exchange of ideas and beliefs. But it’s a kinda strange feeling to know you’re condemned by people…that they really believe you’re heading for an eternal punishment for being wicked…
My conscience is clear in that department. Can you still explain the ‘wilful’ idea? Sorry to keep on about it, but it intrigues me.
(looks a bit like snow…and I’m working up in the hills today…still, there are the most breath-taking views! You’re nearer to God up there whoever he/she is…)
 
Walcot said:
Thank you, I appreciate an exchange of ideas and beliefs. But it’s a kinda strange feeling to know you’re condemned by people…that they really believe you’re heading for an eternal punishment for being wicked…
My conscience is clear in that department. Can you still explain the ‘wilful’ idea? Sorry to keep on about it, but it intrigues me.
(looks a bit like snow…and I’m working up in the hills today…still, there are the most breath-taking views! You’re nearer to God up there whoever he/she is…)
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You mean God willing? I say that because I believe God allows us to live ever moment and we couldn’t sustain our life without him. So if I say I will do this tomorrow, next year, I am assuming on my own that this will happen. I don’t know if I will live or die the next moments, so I always say if I see the morning it will be God’s will not mine. Listen no one should condemn people if they are a Catholic. I can only tell you what the Bible states, but I don’t know till the end of your life what will happen, you have a chance for redemption to the last moments of your breath, after that, it’s done, so I can’t be your judge for you to go to hell or anyone else’s. Actually God doesn’t put anyone in hell, people do by denying him and since he loves us and gives us free will, he will never force us to love him. But I see you on that road that someday you will know, so it’s not important that you have to understand everything when you get to that point, but just believe. The very fact you are on here tells me that. Did I explain this well enough? sometimes I don’t. Anyway, God will be with you anyway waiting till the moment you love him. God Bless:)
 
Publisher said:
No…just a drunken orgy between Lot and his daughters.
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It isn’t like they got together and planned to drink and have an orgy. If I remember correctly the daughters wanted their fathers seed to live on so they got him drunk and did the deed. You also have to understand that in those days women found great glory in being pregnant and having children. In fact children were needed for survival. When you get old there isn’t much you can do for yourself even today. You don’t seem to be very well versed in Biblical history.
 
silentfactor80 said:
It isn’t like they got together and planned to drink and have an orgy. If I remember correctly the daughters wanted their fathers seed to live on so they got him drunk and did the deed. You also have to understand that in those days women found great glory in being pregnant and having children. In fact children were needed for survival. When you get old there isn’t much you can do for yourself even today. You don’t seem to be very well versed in Biblical history.
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I should imagine there were as many women finding great glory in being pregnant and also being really dismayed by it in ‘those days’ as there are in these days. Why should they have been any different from women today?
Are they really supposed to have got their father drunk and had sex with him? Have I understood that right? Sounds like it was planned!! If that’s what you’re saying, then no women would feel any glory in that sort of pregnancy!
 
Walcot said:
I should imagine there were as many women finding great glory in being pregnant and also being really dismayed by it in ‘those days’ as there are in these days. Why should they have been any different from women today?
Are they really supposed to have got their father drunk and had sex with him? Have I understood that right? Sounds like it was planned!! If that’s what you’re saying, then no women would feel any glory in that sort of pregnancy!
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Unless you’ve lived in or studied Biblical history you really do not understand the culture. In our days careers are glorious whereas in Biblical days it was strictly about survival. Your average middle class person today would be rich by Biblical standards. The people in Biblical times were very simple because they didn’t have much.

I worked with a group that built houses in Tijuana, Mexico. The people there are very similar to Biblical people. They can joyful and happy with so little. Children is often all they have of value. In the US however we cannot imagine not having a great career that we always get patted on the back for or the awards we get for those careers. Unless you’ve seen such people you really do not know what it means to live simply. Men and women simply had less materialism to deal with in those days.

Also, today I highly doubt there any women that want to get dad drunk to have his babies because there are plenty of other guys around and of coarse the good ol sperm bank. This was not the case in Biblical times. Population was much more spread out and life was much less structured.
 
speakttruth said:
You mean God willing? I say that because I believe God allows us to live ever moment and we couldn’t sustain our life without him. So if I say I will do this tomorrow, next year, I am assuming on my own that this will happen. I don’t know if I will live or die the next moments, so I always say if I see the morning it will be God’s will not mine. Listen no one should condemn people if they are a Catholic. I can only tell you what the Bible states, but I don’t know till the end of your life what will happen, you have a chance for redemption to the last moments of your breath, after that, it’s done, so I can’t be your judge for you to go to hell or anyone else’s. Actually God doesn’t put anyone in hell, people do by denying him and since he loves us and gives us free will, he will never force us to love him. But I see you on that road that someday you will know, so it’s not important that you have to understand everything when you get to that point, but just believe. The very fact you are on here tells me that. Did I explain this well enough? sometimes I don’t. Anyway, God will be with you anyway waiting till the moment you love him. God Bless:)
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I think I ‘m following you…
There’s something here that implies that even those who are Christian but not Catholic somehow ‘deny’ God and don’t love him. But they just disagree on the details.( and Catholics do have a lot of details) But still Christ, still the trinity, still virgin birth, still resurrection …
As for non- Christians…I do not deny or not love my maker; you can’t say that I do! You and other denominations of Christianity have a set of traditions and beliefs that I don’t share. You can’t know the ‘mind’( for want of a better word) of your maker.
Ho hum, we’ll have to agree to differ ( tho’ having said that, I suppose you can’t?)
 
silentfactor80 said:
Unless you’ve lived in or studied Biblical history you really do not understand the culture. In our days careers are glorious whereas in Biblical days it was strictly about survival. Your average middle class person today would be rich by Biblical standards. The people in Biblical times were very simple because they didn’t have much.

I worked with a group that built houses in Tijuana, Mexico. The people there are very similar to Biblical people. They can joyful and happy with so little. Children is often all they have of value. In the US however we cannot imagine not having a great career that we always get patted on the back for or the awards we get for those careers. Unless you’ve seen such people you really do not know what it means to live simply. Men and women simply had less materialism to deal with in those days.

Also, today I highly doubt there any women that want to get dad drunk to have his babies because there are plenty of other guys around and of coarse the good ol sperm bank. This was not the case in Biblical times. Population was much more spread out and life was much less structured.
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I have indeed had experience of societies who exist with simple, non materialistic lives and who are in many ways much ‘richer’ than we in the west. It has taught me to value my family, friends, environment and community much more than my possessions. We have a lot to teach each other.
I am very interested in history and especially social history. I would take issue with the suggestion that incest was generally acceptable at any time in society. Of course ‘biblical times’ covers a long time… There may have been some blips in some societies but generally it’s been pretty much taboo. Inbreeding does not serve society well. I think life was far more structured in societies even back then, than you give them credit for.
 
silentfactor80 said:
It isn’t like they got together and planned to drink and have an orgy. If I remember correctly the daughters wanted their fathers seed to live on so they got him drunk and did the deed. You also have to understand that in those days women found great glory in being pregnant and having children. In fact children were needed for survival. When you get old there isn’t much you can do for yourself even today. You don’t seem to be very well versed in Biblical history.
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Oh? I could say the same thing…but that would just be trading quips and “one upman ship”…so I’ll 'bow out"…you’d think 35 years of biblical study would have gotten me further along wouldn’t you?🙂
 
Publisher said:
Oh? I could say the same thing…but that would just be trading quips and “one upman ship”…so I’ll 'bow out"…you’d think 35 years of biblical study would have gotten me further along wouldn’t you?🙂
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Studying the Bible and understanding the culture are 2 different things.
 
Walcot said:
I think I 'm following you…

Ho hum, we’ll have to agree to differ ( tho’ having said that, I suppose you can’t?)
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This sounds a bit smug. You must be feeling so superior among us, members of Christian denominations with all those details. You can’t agree to differ any more than anyone else here, otherwise your comments would be less snarky.

Since you are likely to be a lapsed Catholic (what would you be doing here otherwise?) looking for more reasons to justify your departure from the faith, you don’t need to try so hard. You know who we are and what the church teaches. You know what we believe. You are free to reject it. You are also free to reevaluate your position. You might find yourself in a whole different place. You might even be happier. Think about it.

God bless, and peace.
 
In my humble opinion I do not believe God to favor any nation. He loves all men and favors his church. The US is a bastion of many things good and bad. We have brought war and death to the Mideast, a land that had already had enuf of that. Our form of excessive capitalism has impoverished millions in Africa, Asia and South America. We destroyed the nation of Vietnam and propped up the most brutal regimes- outside of communism - to prevent said communism’s spread. Do we really think that God will now be angry at us for gay marriage? No, this a straw on the camels back. Our country is Heaven. Our countrymen are all men of good will. Let us keep loyalty with our King, Jesus Christ and simply render unto Caesar what is his. This idea of America as a new Israel can not stand the test of Scripture or the teachings of the Fathers. Read Isaiah 41. God makes no exceptions to any nations when he says they are but a drop in the bucket
God Bless You.
 
I still don’t understand what the culture of society has to do with the truths of Catholic teaching (Christ’s teaching).

Culture is usually the description of a degraded state of society and the seeking of acceptance of the revised societal norms. All irrelevant to the everlasting truth.
 
Ontheway said:
This sounds a bit smug. You must be feeling so superior among us, members of Christian denominations with all those details. You can’t agree to differ any more than anyone else here, otherwise your comments would be less snarky.

Since you are likely to be a lapsed Catholic (what would you be doing here otherwise?) looking for more reasons to justify your departure from the faith, you don’t need to try so hard. You know who we are and what the church teaches. You know what we believe. You are free to reject it. You are also free to reevaluate your position. You might find yourself in a whole different place. You might even be happier. Think about it.

God bless, and peace.
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I was actually replying to Speaktruth…but of course everything’s open to everyone to answer. The trouble with communicating like this is that we miss facial or voice clues and can misinterpret what’s written. Didn’t seem guilty of smug to me and it definitely wasn’t meant to be snarky. “I guess you can’t (agree to differ)” was more a philosophical question rather than a sarcastic one. I’m afraid that sarcastic it must have sounded…sorry Speaktruth…that wasn’t meant.
The forum is open to non Catholics, so while I’m aware that I’m a kind of guest, I would like to use it to gain some real understanding of people of faith. I can’t really do it with the few Catholic friends we have…it’s not always appropriate - if they bring it up, great. I have been having really interesting conversations with a local Jehovah’s witness who is a thinking man who can back up his arguments rather than spout bible reading. We have to ‘agree to differ’ and that’s something I feel of great importance - we have to rub along together. To claim the ONLY truth seems to me to be what I’D accuse being smug.
Anyway, I want to understand people. It’s the concept of ‘wilful disobedience’ that I’m trying to get to grips with as it doesn’t seem logical to me. You might think it’s none of my business but some may be willing to discuss.
So… sorry if I upset you, it wasn’t intended. And I’m not unhappy, did I give that impression?
 
Walcot said:
I was actually replying to Speaktruth…but of course everything’s open to everyone to answer. The trouble with communicating like this is that we miss facial or voice clues and can misinterpret what’s written. Didn’t seem guilty of smug to me and it definitely wasn’t meant to be snarky. “I guess you can’t (agree to differ)” was more a philosophical question rather than a sarcastic one. I’m afraid that sarcastic it must have sounded…sorry Speaktruth…that wasn’t meant.
The forum is open to non Catholics, so while I’m aware that I’m a kind of guest, I would like to use it to gain some real understanding of people of faith. I can’t really do it with the few Catholic friends we have…it’s not always appropriate - if they bring it up, great. I have been having really interesting conversations with a local Jehovah’s witness who is a thinking man who can back up his arguments rather than spout bible reading. We have to ‘agree to differ’ and that’s something I feel of great importance - we have to rub along together. To claim the ONLY truth seems to me to be what I’D accuse being smug.
Anyway, I want to understand people. It’s the concept of ‘wilful disobedience’ that I’m trying to get to grips with as it doesn’t seem logical to me. You might think it’s none of my business but some may be willing to discuss.
So… sorry if I upset you, it wasn’t intended. And I’m not unhappy, did I give that impression?
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No worries. We Christians tend to be a tolerant lot. Turn the other cheek and all that.
However, we do believe what we believe. Having faith means believing that we have the only truth. That’s what faith means. If we don’t then we are not what we say we are. Many people claim to be Christian but have little or no knowledge of faith. It seems to be a social label rather than a religious statement.
Our source is The Bible, so expect us to refer to it. Why should you object?
If we don’t use the Bible as a reference point than what is the point?

Do continue your journey. One never knows where it leads. If you are not familiar with Merton’s The Seven Story Mountain, you might want to give it a try.

God be with you. aka goodbye
 
What do you base your disagreement on?
VeritasLuxMea said:
Check out this God-loving family-friendly thread to learn about the homosexualists and their homomafia using their homolobby to support the evil homoheresy homoagenda.


Look at this thread for some additional family-friendly ‘Christian’ discussion about the homosexualists and their homoheresies.

View this thread (it’s the one you’re in!!!) to learn about how God is going to commit genocide against the people of the United States… mostly, it’s the homosexualist again.

All of these threads were created recently, by the way. No digging.

As for the female problem, in a thread on female ordination there were several hints about the ‘true’ role of females in society. And no, the problem is not denying ordination to women - something that, for the record, I do not support anyway. Would that it were the only issue!

If you would prefer hyperbolic Islamophobia, check out this thread instead.

There’s more, I’m just tired right now so I’ll leave it at that.
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All American is now is the new old Rome.

Catholics suffered in evil old Rome–now Catholics are suffering in America.

Catholics have to choose either the truth of the Catholic faith or the falsity of Sodom and Gomarah that leads to Hell!

Catholics changed the old Rome–now it is up to Catholics to change the new old Rome.

I hope I am not right but the worst may be yet to come.
 
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