United States of Sodom and Gomarah

[Catholic4Jesus]

If you read in the Book of Leviticus, God destroyed Sodom and Gomorah for their sins of adultery and homosexuality. Since America is the largest country-advocate for homosexuality, abortion, contraception, fornication, and divorce; doesn’t that mean that America could fall the same way that Sodom and Gomorah did?

God does not change! He is all-just!

 

[ProdglArchitect]

Personally, I agree with you. I expect the United States to fail in an oh-so-spectacular fashion. Any when it does, all the advocates will say that their views had absolutely nothing to do with it >_>

Who knows though. God is infinitely merciful as well as infinitely just. Maybe he will accept the pleas of those of us who are trying to live His will, fail though we may. We’re not down to the point where we can’t even find one good person… yet…

 

[JoyfulRC]

I’m hoping that He will not destroy us if He can find ten just men among us. That is how He responded to Abraham (Gen 18: 16-33), so I continue to pray for America and her conversion. I grant you that some days I am on the verge of begging God to rain down his justice and cleanse the US of the evil that grips it, that is until I remember that the innocent will suffer with the guilty. Of course, I pridefully think of myself as one of the innocent before I acknowledge all of my shortcomings.

(BTW, I accept that using the noun “men” is meant to be inclusive of all humans, not just the male humans.)

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Oh boy, this is Pat Roberston territory we’re entering.

I would like to see some proof that God destroyed Sodom.

 

[wanabesaint]

like to see some proof that God destroyed Sodom, now that is interestesting on what is assumed to be a Catholic site.

while your looking for some “proof” find some why the US government spends 3 billion a year to maintain the terroristic state of Israel every year. promises 1.8 to Haitie and its not delivered. intersesting.

or show us some proof that the US can continue to recognize its 17 trillion in debt, with nothing to show for, now that is some proof we would like to see. a fictional economy that enslaves the people in debt, and no proof exists the validity of 17 trillion… amazing,
people want proof, but they accept the most fictional government to ever exist in all of world history, and we never got into the the war of the rich on the poor, based on a boggie man is going to take us over reality…

 

[fix]

Oh boy, this is Pat Roberston territory we’re entering.

I would like to see some proof that God destroyed Sodom.

What proof do you desire?

 

[wanabesaint]

more directly the proof is in the Bible, amazing how people pick and chose to form their fictional religions,

 

[Walcot]

more directly the proof is in the Bible, amazing how people pick and chose to form their fictional religions,

The OT justifies slavery, stoning and genocide…I would hope that you ‘pick and choose’ a bit too.

 

[ephesians4]

Oh boy, this is Pat Roberston territory we’re entering.

I would like to see some proof that God destroyed Sodom.

Wait a second, if a meteor or an earthquake or a volcano is used to destroy something, by God, how can you “prove God did it”?

Massive fingerprints or something?

I assume you don’t need proof God exists, unless I have misunderstood what the word “Catholic” means going by your religion tag.

Assuming that isn’t the case, if you merely wish for evidence that Sodom existed and was destroyed, I recall some research was being done on what was believed to be the ancient site of Sodom, which had been utterly destroyed by pressurised bitumen erupting from the ground and violently combusting both as it flowed through the streets, and shot into the air and rained back down - I haven’t caught up on the matter since (probably will now I’ve said it) - but that might be somewhere for you to start if you’re curious.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Wait a second, if a meteor or an earthquake or a volcano is used to destroy something, by God, how can you “prove God did it”?

Precisely. You can’t.

Why are we assuming that a bunch of people who weren’t trained in historical methodology wrote trustworthy historical accounts? Or even that the accounts are intended to be historical?

 

[ProdglArchitect]

The OT justifies slavery, stoning and genocide…I would hope that you ‘pick and choose’ a bit too.

The OT justifies slavery as opposed to mass slaughter of a conquered people. Also, slavery in the OT is a far cry from what a modern person understands as slavery. A man had to care for his slaves as he would a modern hourly worker; as well as provide adequate food and shelter. That, to me, seems far better than being killed.

Stoning was a form of execution no different in concept from the electric chair, lethal injection, firing squad, guillotine, etc. There were also stringent rules for when this sentence was carried out. True, it is more brutal; but it was the most common method widely available. The goal in a stoning is for the head to take a hit first, numbing the body or knocking them unconscious, therefore preventing them from feeling most of the pain for the rest of the execution. There are better methods, sure, but hindsight’s 20x20, and this was the best they had come up with at the time.

The genocide your referring too involves the slaughter of a race of people who delighted in killing their own. They engaged in brutal and near-constant human sacrifice to Baal ( I think it was Baal), were warlike for no reason other than to claim sacrifices and slaves (who’s treatment was probably close to what your mind first thinks of for slavery); and engaged in beastial sexual practices, including the rape of captive men women and children, mass orgies, and general sexual debasement.

Basically, the culture represented the absolute lowest level of humanity, and that is why they were wiped out; and justifiably so, to save the people of the surrounding territories, and any others who may have crossed paths with this race.

 

[Catholic4Jesus]

The OT justifies slavery as opposed to mass slaughter of a conquered people. Also, slavery in the OT is a far cry from what a modern person understands as slavery. A man had to care for his slaves as he would a modern hourly worker; as well as provide adequate food and shelter. That, to me, seems far better than being killed.

Stoning was a form of execution no different in concept from the electric chair, lethal injection, firing squad, guillotine, etc. There were also stringent rules for when this sentence was carried out. True, it is more brutal; but it was the most common method widely available. The goal in a stoning is for the head to take a hit first, numbing the body or knocking them unconscious, therefore preventing them from feeling most of the pain for the rest of the execution. There are better methods, sure, but hindsight’s 20x20, and this was the best they had come up with at the time.

The genocide your referring too involves the slaughter of a race of people who delighted in killing their own. They engaged in brutal and near-constant human sacrifice to Baal ( I think it was Baal), were warlike for no reason other than to claim sacrifices and slaves (who’s treatment was probably close to what your mind first thinks of for slavery); and engaged in beastial sexual practices, including the rape of captive men women and children, mass orgies, and general sexual debasement.

Basically, the culture represented the absolute lowest level of humanity, and that is why they were wiped out; and justifiably so, to save the people of the surrounding territories, and any others who may have crossed paths with this race.

And the slavery that took place in the American South 200 years ago was not the same compared to the “slavery” mentioned in the Bible. Like he said, slavery in Bible times was when people were hosued, fed, and clothed for their services (endentured service), Sotuhern slavery didn;t guarantee you any of those things. If they felt like whipping you for no reason, you got whipped. If they decided that you’ve outworn your usefulness, they could kill you if they wished. The Bible doesn’t condone any of that in regards to “slavery.”

 

[BillP]

And the slavery that took place in the American South 200 years ago was not the same compared to the “slavery” mentioned in the Bible. Like he said, slavery in Bible times was when people were hosued, fed, and clothed for their services (endentured service), Sotuhern slavery didn;t guarantee you any of those things. If they felt like whipping you for no reason, you got whipped. If they decided that you’ve outworn your usefulness, they could kill you if they wished. The Bible doesn’t condone any of that in regards to “slavery.”

I’m sorry but this is blatant nonsense. Roman slaves were required by law to be tortured before they could testify in law courts, had no personhood before the law and were subject to sexual exploitation and summary execution at the whim of their owners.

Greek slaves were in much the same predicament and the “Helots” slaves held by Spartans had it even worse.

 

[Catholic4Jesus]

I’m sorry but this is blatant nonsense. Roman slaves were required by law to be tortured before they could testify in law courts, had no personhood before the law and were subject to sexual exploitation and summary execution at the whim of their owners.

Greek slaves were in much the same predicament and the “Helots” slaves held by Spartans had it even worse.

I’m sorry but is this what God condoned as slavery? I’m not being rhetorical. I just want to know.

 

[BillP]

I’m sorry but is this what God condoned as slavery? I’m not being rhetorical. I just want to know.

I don’t know about God, but when St Paul sent the slave Onesimus back to Philemon he was definitely returning “property” to its rightful owner:

I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I became in my imprisonment. (Formerly he was useless to you, but now he is indeed useful to you and to me.) I am sending him back to you, sending my very heart.** I would have been glad to keep him with me, in order that he might serve me on your behalf during my imprisonment for the gospel, but I preferred to do nothing without your consent** in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own accord. For this is perhaps why he was parted from you for a while, that you might have him back forever, no longer as a slave, as a beloved brother—especially to me, but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the Lord.

And since Paul was a Roman citizen, indeed, Bible scholars believe that Paul was imprisoned in Rome when he wrote to Philemon, we can be sure that Paul was aware of Roman law on these matters.

Additionally, in Ephesians 6:5 he says:

Slaves, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in the sincerity of your heart, as to Christ;

Again, Ephesus, although located in Greece, was a major Roman city, subject to Roman Law.

 

[Seeker1961]

Oh boy, this is Pat Roberston territory we’re entering.

I would like to see some proof that God destroyed Sodom.

Not just Pat Robertson…Westboro Baptist.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Not just Pat Robertson…Westboro Baptist.

Welcome to the One Holy, Catholic and Westbor-alic Church. Feel free to check out our threads on the homosexual problem, female submission and other family-friendly topics.

 

[ProdglArchitect]

I’m sorry but this is blatant nonsense. Roman slaves were required by law to be tortured before they could testify in law courts, had no personhood before the law and were subject to sexual exploitation and summary execution at the whim of their owners.

Greek slaves were in much the same predicament and the “Helots” slaves held by Spartans had it even worse.

What I wrote was specifically in relation to the OT slavery as it pertained to how the Jewish people were required, by law, to treat their slaves.

Welcome to the One Holy, Catholic and Westbor-alic Church. Feel free to check out our threads on the homosexual problem, female submission and other family-friendly topics.

You seem to have a very negative view of these forums. I’m not sure where it arises from. Widespread acceptance of homosexuality is an issue because it undermines the importance of the traditional family unit. I don’t care if you think it doesn’t; history has shown us that it does. (Greeks and Romans, to name just two examples).

I don’t know what you’re talking about with female submission. Probably some nonsense about women not being able to be priests. If you recall, this is derived form the example Christ himself set. He would have had no qualms about appointing a female to the role of Apostle (which would have evolved into the role of the priestess); as he had no qualms with disrupting any other social stigma that was opposed to God’s will. He didn’t, so we don’t. It’s not an active malicious decision, as supporters of woman priests seem to imply.

 

[StudentMI]

If you read in the Book of Leviticus, God destroyed Sodom and Gomorah for their sins of adultery and homosexuality. Since America is the largest country-advocate for homosexuality, abortion, contraception, fornication, and divorce; doesn’t that mean that America could fall the same way that Sodom and Gomorah did?

God does not change! He is all-just!

Please remember the Book of Jonah. God does not change, and He is all just, and His mercy and love are vast.

 

[Walcot]

Beating and Killing Slaves: Although an owner could beat a male or female slave, she/he would have to avoid serious injury to eyes or teeth. The owner would have to avoid beating the slave to death. But it was acceptable to beat a slave so severely that it only disabled him or her for two days:
Exodus 21:20-21 “And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money [property].”
Exodus 21:26-27 “And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye’s sake. And if he smite out his manservant’s tooth, or his maidservant’s tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth’s sake.”
Emancipation of Slaves: Slaves in ancient Israel were automatically emancipated after 6 years of slavery, but only if they were Jewish. However, if the slave owner “gave” the slave a wife, the owner could keep the wife and any children as his property.

I don’t think there’s any good sort of slavery…even making allowances for the times. I really wouldn’t have thought God would have condoned man exploiting his fellow man…