There is a need for more (name removed by moderator)uts on this issue…
… As you correctly stated, men are wired differently from women. They look for affection and emotional intimacy. Men are more for physical intimacy and biological satisfaction. But we all know that pursuit of these things only lead to frustration. One has to learn to forget first his welfare in favor of his loved one’s and he will be spared from frustrations.
Ok I’ll give my (name removed by moderator)ut on the issue then. I agree that pursuing sex solely for the purpose of self-gratification is disordered. However, I don’t think the proper response to this possibility is to deny the desire for sexual satisfaction altogether. Certainly there must be a licit context in which spouses can experience the fulfillment of their sexual desire. Moreover, I don’t accept that it is illicit for a husband (or wife) to initiate sex with their spouse if they have any trace of selfish desire at all. Who among us could claim to have sinless relations then? “He who has no sin cast the first stone”, as it were. I think a better way to think of it is that my wife holds the key to my sexual gratification - I can’t have it apart from her. However, it’s best for both of us if my main concern is not “getting mine”, but “giving her hers”, because I of course hold the key for her gratification, which she can’t get apart from me. Ideally we will love each other perfectly, anticipating each others desires and needs and fulfilling them joyfully.
More concretely, If I ask my wife if she wants to have a long intimate talk, and she says, “Oh I’d love to”, I think that’s perfectly legitimate (on her part). Likewise, if after that talk she asks if I’d like to have some physical intimacy and I say, “Yes I would very much”, I think that’s ok on my part. I.e. I have desire, which is at least in part selfish, but in the context I described, it’s not illicit to satisfy it. I think this would be the case even if I were the one who initiated with her instead of her with me.
The sooner men realize this, the sooner they reach self mastery… Christ gave us already a clue: “If any one wishes to be my disciple, he must first deny himself, take up his cross and follow me.” The product is to fulfill one’s duty in his state of life in accordance with life in Christ. Sex is over-rated. That’s why we have a nation of wimps.
Spoken like a true manly man.
And also like a man who has some bitterness from past experience, and lack of patience for “whimps” who whine about how hard life is. I risk being so direct because I count myself among those who feel this way sometimes. In past times of difficulty I’ve told my wife that I wish I were asexual, “like she seems to be” (since she can go indefinitely without sex and it doesn’t even seem to enter her mind, etc.). Of course I don’t really wish I were asexual (at least not when I’m in my right mind), and I know she isn’t either. I’m a fallen man and when times get tough sometimes I get grumpy. Grumpy theology is no good in my experience.
More to your point, I used to preach fairly often on Jesus’ various statements about dying to oneself. One of my most “annointed” sermons was on that topic and resounded in the congregation for years afterward. However even then I saw the need for balance - this idea can obviously be taken too far. The problem I had as a protestant was that I was relying on my own private interpretation of scripture (or mine and those of a few other colleagues with whom I agreed most of the time), and since the Bible is not a systematic theology text, there are a lot of holes I had to fill in by “making stuff up” (which of course is not how I thought of it at the time; I thought I was doing scholarly, Spirit-led exegesis - the problem was other guys would do the same thing and come up with very different ideas sometimes - thankfully I was able to see that they must be wrong since I was right
). So I have a sore spot about private interpretation now, and I love the Church even more because of the Magisterium - to wit, I think we must be careful to consider Church teaching on easily misapplied scriptures like for example Lk 14:26ff. I’m still a noob when it comes to the teachings of JPII, but based on my reading so far, it seems that he was pretty “radical” on both sides of the issue - there is a proper context for (extended) self-denial, but there is also a proper context for “total giving of oneself” (and therefore total receiving of another as well). I don’t claim to understand that entirely, but it sounds pretty good (i.e. satisfying).
Secondly, self-gratification was invented by the Enemy… The media and the commercial world are flooded with images of sexuality… Christ taught us chastity, patience, sacrifice, self-denial, etc as a means to conquer the world. But many choose to be conquered by this world daily.
I agree. I often have to ask myself if I really believe in God and in particular in Jesus Christ and his Church. If not, then the hedonism preached by the world makes a lot of sense. But if so, the logical implications of that belief lead to a radically different lifestyle. It’s helpful to me to realize that the “radicalness” of it all comes from the initial proposition that Jesus of Nazareth was the second person of the Trinity, and not from “celibate old men making up the rules about sex for everyone else”, as some in the world would say.
).