Unity among Christians

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Lisa,

I believe one must want Unity among Christians in order for there to be so. Correct? I have a cousin who would not attend the baptism of my two sons because he had to enter a Catholic Church to do so. 🤷

We often speak of ā€œunityā€ but what exactly does that unity mean? In order for there to be unity, one side has to accept the doctrine of the other side. Many people do that on an individual level, but it becomes extremely hard for a denomination to do so.

There was unity at one time but man’s sinful nature sought to bring that to an end. Sadly, to this day we are still divided. I am not for fighting it out, but I do believe we must talk out our differences in order to understand one another. šŸ‘
 
We can only find unity in Jesus and the more complete our understanding of Jesus and the fact that He instituted only One Church, reflects the need to understand the truth of Jesus Christ Himself.

The testimony to Christianity is the Church, not the last page of Revelations.

The Old Testament is testament to the ancient people who were nurtured and guided by God, and prepared to receive the Messiah…the rise and fall of many within Israel.

The New Testament does not end on a page in book form, but on the salvation people…the Resurrection people of Jesus Christ, whose testimony now is lived out in the Church.

Christ is the living temple, and the Church is His Bride. Not a Bible book, and not intending either to give offense to the Bible.

People of the Old Testament whose lives centered on God, to the New Testament, people living in the Church in testimony to their faith in Jesus – nurtured by the Word Made Flesh.

In testimonies of both Old and New Testament, Salvation History in both epochs is full of cases of people who were faithful and those who failed, as well as those who were forgiven and penitent and renewed in the Lord. This is reflective of the Oral Tradition, not using faith in book form, but in authentic conversion to Christ, a life long journey.
 
We can only find unity in Jesus and the more complete our understanding of Jesus and the fact that He instituted only One Church, reflects the need to understand the truth of Jesus Christ Himself.

The testimony to Christianity is the Church, not the last page of Revelations.

The Old Testament is testament to the ancient people who were nurtured and guided by God, and prepared to receive the Messiah…the rise and fall of many within Israel.

The New Testament does not end on a page in book form, but on the salvation people…the Resurrection people of Jesus Christ, whose testimony now is lived out in the Church.

Christ is the living temple, and the Church is His Bride. Not a Bible book, and not intending either to give offense to the Bible.

People of the Old Testament whose lives centered on God, to the New Testament, people living in the Church in testimony to their faith in Jesus – nurtured by the Word Made Flesh.

In testimonies of both Old and New Testament, Salvation History in both epochs is full of cases of people who were faithful and those who failed, as well as those who were forgiven and penitent and renewed in the Lord. This is reflective of the Oral Tradition, not using faith in book form, but in authentic conversion to Christ, a life long journey.
That sounds so much better than my post lol
 
It’s ironic how religion is supposed to be peaceful and bring God’s people together but actually starts tensions, wars, and divisions among the Believers.
 
=Monergistic;10622858]Some Protestants have enough anti-Catholic vitriol to be of no use being in the neighborhood of ecumenical dialogue, to themselves or anyone else.
I guess it shouldn’t surprise me that there’s a Catholic version of that.
Friend,

Do WE not believe in ''One God?"

How then can ā€œOne Godā€ hold more than one position on the same; and long defined issues? Is this not IMPOSSIBLE:shrug:
 
Friend,

Do WE not believe in ''One God?"

How then can ā€œOne Godā€ hold more than one position on the same; and long defined issues? Is this not IMPOSSIBLE:shrug:
More than that. According to St. Thomas God is Truth itself and since God is one, by logic that means that there is only one Truth and that Truth is the same yesterday, today, and forever.
 
There is only one faith, one baptism in One Lord Who instituted only One Church.

How can we be called to communion if there is no work for the truth of Who Christ is and the truth of what His Church is???

American Christianity is most susceptible to different concepts of Christ and His Church.

We have work to do and maintain charity which covers all our missives.
 
AidenB…

I laugh, too…considering my Welsh Irish Catholic background is Welsh-Brady. For real.

There are alot of Americans of Irish descent who do not go to the Catholic Church.

May be it is time to draw on a prayer from Father Patrick who died 1000 years plus before the Terrible Times of the Reformation…for the Irish peoples.
 
It’s ironic how religion is supposed to be peaceful and bring God’s people together but actually starts tensions, wars, and divisions among the Believers.
I hope this not the beginning of a new church called ā€œBelievers Churchā€:hmmm: šŸ˜‰

Btw what did Jesus say about himself…" I didn’t come to bring…but a sword" He knew his teachings would be too hard for some.

MJ
 
It’s ironic how religion is supposed to be peaceful and bring God’s people together but actually starts tensions, wars, and divisions among the Believers.
My take is that people are always looking for a scapegoat. Life on earth is rough…why isn’t it better? Whatever the cause it cannot possibly be me because I’m perfect, in fact I’m like unto God. Therefore my rotten lot in life must be the fault of someone else. Who to blame? I can’t blame my friends and family because I like them. It must be their fault. They are the reason for all that is wrong in my life and this world. I hate them…maybe someone should just kill them.

With that attitude (which is often so subtle), any difference will suffice. Race, nationality, gender, and, yes, religion.
 
This is for PJM.

I’m going to say something, then re-post your comment, then say something else. First, the vitriolic Protestants. The most vitriolic ones believe Catholicism became apostasy at some point and can no longer legitimately call itself Christianity. The slightly less vitriolic are willing to grudgingly say that Catholicism is a kind of Christianity, but it has a lot of problems with teaching and praxis that make it hard for anyone to become a Christian or become a better Christian. So they’re not to the point where they say Catholics are beyond the pale, but they do believe Catholics come to know Jesus in spite of Catholicism rather than because of it.

Therefore. The overall conclusion for either kind of vitriol involves a commitment to bringing Catholics out of the Catholic Church. A decline in the presence and influence of Catholicism in any given country is equated with a win for Jesus, who weakens the CC so that people can be in a better position to know Him. And some of these people even dream of a day when the CC is destroyed, gone, no more. They certainly don’t dream of a day when their coalition of churches is on good terms with Catholics, working side by side for a common goal. They don’t want to build bridges. Why would you build a bridge and link up with something when the only thing you want is to see it burn?
Friend,

Do WE not believe in ''One God?"

How then can ā€œOne Godā€ hold more than one position on the same; and long defined issues? Is this not IMPOSSIBLE:shrug:
It is not impossible, Thomists and Molinists hold divergent and contradictory positions on the same sorts of issues that divide Calvinists and Arminians. But Thomists and Molinists are still both Catholic.

But let’s say it is impossible. You asked a question which is generally geared toward opposition to ecumenism. (You know what I mean by ecumenism). But what are your particular conclusions, as far as where that leaves you and the scope of your interactions with Protestants? Does it look anything like a Catholic version of my initial comments prior to the re-post of what you said? Do you feel that Protestantism is fundamentally broken, deficient, and guilty of putting people in a position where it’s much less likely that they will know Jesus, become better Christians, and attain salvation on the last day? Are you reluctant to build bridges with our churches (even as you voice some reluctance at calling them churches) because you really think that the key to meaningful unity is their termination, end, and lack of existence? Do you dream of a day when Protestantism is no more? Do you sort of want to see it burn to the ground?

I’m not really concerned with how reasonable you are in getting there- if this is where you have gotten. What I’m hoping for is a hard denial saying that you most certainly have not reached these sorts of conclusions, and this is not where your thought process takes you. I’m sure you are very reasonable, and I am well aware of the fact that you, as a Catholic, have a right to feel far more justified in reaching the same sorts of conclusions that vitriolic Protestants so often reach concerning you and yours.

But that’s not really the point, is it. The point is- maybe you have reached some of those same conclusions. And even if they are better reasoned and better supported, they’re still the same sorts of conclusions that vitriolic Protestants reach concerning you, and I think you know there’s something hurtful in them that doesn’t quite have anything to do with logic, support, or the quality of argument.

One more question, if I may. You talk to some vitriolic Protestants who hate Catholicism and want to burn it down, and then you talk to some ecumenically-minded Protestants who believe in the same basic doctrines as their vitriolic brethren (Five Solas and so forth), but they have more of an interest in the history of Christianity and knowing something about their place in it. They also have less of an interest in converting Catholics to some form of Protestantism, but they have absolutely no plans to convert to Catholicism themselves. Additionally, they inevitably have a burning desire to join hands and sing Kumbaya, because that’s definitely a major goal for all persons involved. It just goes with the territory.

When you look at the vitriolic Protestants and the ecumenical Protestants, they believe basically the same things and largely disagree with you and the CC in pretty much the same ways- they just handle their disagreement differently. And I think I may be approaching the question at long last. Based on your line of questioning which I have re-posted, am I to conclude that you have some sort of preference for the vitriolic Protestants? Is that the thing you have more of an understanding for? Do you admire the passion in spite of your disagreements while having a relative lack of respect and admiration for Protestants who shun vitriol in favor of something more ecumenical?

Are you implicitly suggesting that there are legitimate reasons for you to prefer a more vitriolic Protestant to a more ecumenical one? Understand that I ask you this as a Protestant myself, and I’m almost not kidding when I say I can go either way.
 
Lisa,

I believe one must want Unity among Christians in order for there to be so. Correct? I have a cousin who would not attend the baptism of my two sons because he had to enter a Catholic Church to do so. 🤷

We often speak of ā€œunityā€ but what exactly does that unity mean? In order for there to be unity, one side has to accept the doctrine of the other side. Many people do that on an individual level, but it becomes extremely hard for a denomination to do so.

There was unity at one time but man’s sinful nature sought to bring that to an end. Sadly, to this day we are still divided. I am not for fighting it out, but I do believe we must talk out our differences in order to understand one another. šŸ‘
I believe that there has been wrong on all sides. I see Protestants bashing Catholics and vice versa. I think we Christians have to give up saying our denomination, whatever it is, is the only right one, and accept that all Christians are Christians. I have been a member of many denominations, including Catholic, and have found Christ in each one.
 
AidenB…

I laugh, too…considering my Welsh Irish Catholic background is Welsh-Brady. For real.

There are alot of Americans of Irish descent who do not go to the Catholic Church.

May be it is time to draw on a prayer from Father Patrick who died 1000 years plus before the Terrible Times of the Reformation…for the Irish peoples.
I will second that prayer request šŸ‘

Most of my Irish family are Anglican or Baptist. Only a very few Irish Catholics. 😦

I would like to bring unity to family šŸ˜‰
 
Why can’t we focus on what we have in common instead of focusing on our differences? Why does t have to be Catholic vs. Protestant in this forum? I have been Methodist, Catholic, Lutheran, and attend an Episcopalian church sometimes, and denominations do not matter to me. We are all Christians. All churches I’ve been to pray that the church of Christ will be one.

What do you think?
If, in this forum, we could only talk about what we have in common, there would be precious little to talk about.
For example:
we could not talk about the Trinity;
we could not talk about the 7 sacraments;
we could not talk about Mary being ā€œMother of Godā€ or the special graces granted to her;
we could not talk about the gift of the papacy;
we could not talk about justification;
we could not talk about the Sacrifice of the Mass or the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist;
we could not talk about…
 
If, in this forum, we could only talk about what we have in common, there would be precious little to talk about.
For example:
we could not talk about the Trinity;
we could not talk about the 7 sacraments;
we could not talk about Mary being ā€œMother of Godā€ or the special graces granted to her;
we could not talk about the gift of the papacy;
we could not talk about justification;
we could not talk about the Sacrifice of the Mass or the real presence of Jesus in the Eucharist;
we could not talk about…
I posted the above, and just wanted to share a personal experience – because I’ve experienced all of the above.

For some years, my closest friend to discuss Our Lord and Scripture was protestant (she was Baptist at that time). I was just starting to study the Bible and we had some wonderful times discussing Scripture. I’m not sure just when or why it came up, but she explicitly said at one time that she did not want to get into discussions where our beliefs conflicted. And she was FIRM about it. The more I studied Scripture, the more I got excited because it is so CATHOLIC. I would get all excited about a passage, but I couldn’t tell her about it, or discuss it with her in any way, because Baptists didn’t believe it. There just got to be more and more and more things that I couldn’t talk about when we would be discussing Scripture - which was almost every time we were together. (I finally prayed to God - said, ā€œDear Lord, PLEASE send me a good CATHOLIC friend.ā€ And He did!!!)

After we moved, I recall writing to my Baptist friend once and asking her a question about what the Baptist faith taught in a certain area – it was an area where our faiths differed. (I can no longer even remember what it was.:o) And she refused to answer; she said she was afraid it would affect our friendship. I would just like to add that she is a very knowledgeable person when it comes to Scripture; got a degree in it – loves God, loves Scripture. She is now Lutheran; that was a big leap for her. šŸ™‚ I keep praying someday she’ll make it all the way to Catholicism. Oh, what conversations we’ll have then.
 
If, in this forum, we could only talk about what we have in common, there would be precious little to talk about.
For example:
we could not talk about the Trinity
Protestants believe in the Trinity. That’s something Christians have in common. :twocents:
 
Protestants believe in the Trinity. That’s something Christians have in common. :twocents:
True, except when asked how they know that the Trinity is true and where the word Trinity came from and where its understanding came from. 🤷

MJ
 
Protestants believe in the Trinity. That’s something Christians have in common. :twocents:
Not all who call themselves ā€œChristianā€ believe in it - at least not in the traditional meaning.

I understood the opening poster to be talking about this forum – the ā€œNon-Catholicā€ forum. That includes some who are not Christian. Just as a couple of quick examples: Jews, Moslems, JWs, Mormons. People belonging to those faiths also post on this forum - and I for one certainly hope they keep participating even though our beliefs differ.

The problem isn’t talking about the differences in what we believe. The problem arises when we don’t do it charitably.
 
I think it sad that some Protestants see Catholics as bad. But time to move on.

What we can share together are the Our Father and Ecumenical Bible studies that stress Christ’s works and that of the Holy Spirit among us in every day life.

I think Rick Warren of Saddleback Church has a pretty balanced view of the Catholic Church and wrote a book on Mother Theresa and appears to be drawn to Catholic spirituality of the Cross and service as personified by Mother Theresa of Calcutta.

There are countless Catholics throughout the world that do much the same work as Mother Theresa but do not capture people’s imaginations as she did.

Can we say that a saint has the ability to capture imagination, and cause people to follow him or her?..isn’t that reflective of those in Fowler’s degrees of faith, who are universalizing…causing people to be able to form a concept of Christian gospels and live them out in their lives???

So may be if we instead look at the universalizing effect of a saint, it possibly levels out the onus of differences of creed and worship among Christians.

I mean, it is the saints of the New Testament active and documented in the Church that draw us out of ourselves more, and aid us to see how much we can love Christ more.
 
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