Unity

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The recognition by each Church involved that a member of one Church is allowed to take Holy Communion in the other Church.
Why would they take “communion” when they are not in “communion”. I don’t understand what that would accomplish. It would, by definition, be a farce, a false “unity”.

When we, as Catholics, receive the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus we are not only in communion with Him, but with all of our brothers and sisters who partake and make up his mystical body, and with the saints and angels in heaven. We are in communion because we share in one loaf and one cup; heavenly food that makes us one as Jesus is one with his Father. Because we drink the blood of Jesus we all have the same blood running through our veins - we are true brothers and sisters.

How can that happen when one denies the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist? Where is the communion? One is munching on a cracker and the other is consuming the flesh and blood of God. Do you see what I mean? We don’t arrive at unity by shirking the truth. The truth to a Catholic is first and foremost the Eucharist. It is the source and summit of our faith. It is Jesus. How can we be in communion with one who does not believe that?

Peace.

Steve
 
To quote pope Francis “we need to meet in the middle, not at home”

Those of us who are not catholic, we already are home.
We can extend unity to the Muslims and Bahais also, they too are all already home.
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Aidanbradypop:
I will say this. I want unity. Probably not like a Catholic would describe unity …
It is always on someone’s term, one way or the other.
 
We can extend unity to the Muslims and Bahais also, they too are all already home.

It is always on someone’s term, one way or the other.
I started this thread to promote unity… Not to hear everyone’s ignorace.first poster was right. This thread wouldn’t go well
 
I posted this in a separate thread. Over the course of the week I’ve learned about my brothers and sisters of different churches. So I thought of starting this thread this week, being holy week and all lol.
Hi timmylee87 🙂
What’s everyone’s thoughts on unity?
My first thoughts are “Sounds nice and I believe it’s something we should all work toward, until unity is placed above truth, as it’s not unity that sets us free, it’s truth.” As Archbishop Fulton J Sheen once said *“A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it and the truth is the truth even if none believe it.” *I would rather stand alone in the truth than stand untied in a lie.
I think all of us should stop bickering and fighting. Its such small things we fight over.
This is what worries me when it comes to talks on ‘unity’ as when it comes to the Holy Eucharist, the Real Presence of Christ, to believe our disagreements are small I believe is a gross and harmful misunderstanding.

I believe people have to be extremely careful when it comes to ‘unity’ as I believe it can all too often turn into what Pope Benedict warned us about which was the dictatorship of relativism, where “all views are equal and equally valid”

“The Church is intolerant in principle because she believes; she is tolerant in practice because she loves. The enemies of the Church are tolerant in principle because they do not believe; they are intolerant in practice because they do not love.”
-Rev. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange O.P

I believe I will always strive to be intolerant in principal, and tolerant in practice out of love for the truth and my fellow man.
Its kinda like a family fued, in the end there is no winners… Unless, we all see we are the children of god, rather than point out our differences we point out each others strengths, and allow each others to build us higher. Catholics, I love how traditional your church is, its something I would love in mine time to time. I’ll share my outward thinking, bubbly energy with you! Lol
I believe your analogy all depends on what the family fued is over and at what price it’s ended.
Just an example there, but seriously everyone, Any faith, let me hear your (name removed by moderator)ut, would us as Christians be better off together than divided?
Of course. I believe over the beliefs we are united on, there should be unity, however regarding the beliefs we disagree on, I truly believe there can only be true unity when we all come back to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, founded by Christ.
I don’t mean everyone converting, but our churches coming together.
How can we come together when we are travelling two different paths? I believe Unity would mean that one would have to come across to the others path or they would have to merge somewhere in the middle, which would mean being at the expense of truth.
I believe and pray to my lord, God, Jesus died so that I may live, and the holy spirit is in my heart.
🙂
Are we so different?
Yes and no.

I hope this has helped, please feel free to reply or refute anything I have said.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
Why would they take “communion” when they are not in “communion”. I don’t understand what that would accomplish. It would, by definition, be a farce, a false “unity”.

When we, as Catholics, receive the body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus we are not only in communion with Him, but with all of our brothers and sisters who partake and make up his mystical body, and with the saints and angels in heaven. We are in communion because we share in one loaf and one cup; heavenly food that makes us one as Jesus is one with his Father. Because we drink the blood of Jesus we all have the same blood running through our veins - we are true brothers and sisters.

How can that happen when one denies the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist? Where is the communion? One is munching on a cracker and the other is consuming the flesh and blood of God. Do you see what I mean? We don’t arrive at unity by shirking the truth. The truth to a Catholic is first and foremost the Eucharist. It is the source and summit of our faith. It is Jesus. How can we be in communion with one who does not believe that?

Peace.

Steve
My views exactly. That mystical Union with Christ through the Body and Blood in, with and under the Bread and the Wine, sustaining our Faith and conveying forgiveness of all our sins, is what I call the Pinnacle of Faith. As a Confessional Lutheran among other Confessional Lutherans, I’d be frightened for the souls of the uninstructed if they didn’t have a proper understanding and preparation for what was going to occur in the Sacrament and yet insisted on partaking. Well said, sir. The Sacrament of Holy Communion*** is most certainly not a small thing!***
 
JRKH;
We Agape them by wishing the highest good for them. Which in theological terms and from a Catholic perspective means that they would come to understand the errors of their protestant past and come home to Holy Mother Church.
Eternal Salvation must be the highest good for anyone, billions of people have died a non Catholic, we pray for salvation for all people. Only God can sort our human mess out

I truthfully believe that scriptures are more powerful when we use them to try and change ourselves, rather than when we use them to try and change other people. I am a Catholic, and it is a huge challenge to try and change myself, it is not in my power to change anyone else.
 
Hi timmylee87 🙂

My first thoughts are “Sounds nice and I believe it’s something we should all work toward, until unity is placed above truth, as it’s not unity that sets us free, it’s truth.” As Archbishop Fulton J Sheen once said *“A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it and the truth is the truth even if none believe it.” *I would rather stand alone in the truth than stand untied in a lie.

This is what worries me when it comes to talks on ‘unity’ as when it comes to the Holy Eucharist, the Real Presence of Christ, to believe our disagreements are small I believe is a gross and harmful misunderstanding.

I believe people have to be extremely careful when it comes to ‘unity’ as I believe it can all too often turn into what Pope Benedict warned us about which was the dictatorship of relativism, where “all views are equal and equally valid”

“The Church is intolerant in principle because she believes; she is tolerant in practice because she loves. The enemies of the Church are tolerant in principle because they do not believe; they are intolerant in practice because they do not love.”
-Rev. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange O.P

I believe I will always strive to be intolerant in principal, and tolerant in practice out of love for the truth and my fellow man.

I believe your analogy all depends on what the family fued is over and at what price it’s ended.

Of course. I believe over the beliefs we are united on, there should be unity, however regarding the beliefs we disagree on, I truly believe there can only be true unity when we all come back to the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, founded by Christ.

How can we come together when we are travelling two different paths? I believe Unity would mean that one would have to come across to the others path or they would have to merge somewhere in the middle, which would mean being at the expense of truth.

🙂

Yes and no.

I hope this has helped, please feel free to reply or refute anything I have said.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
So we all have to be catholic to have unity? That’s very close minded
 
Unity means different things to different people. For some, it means union in love of neighbor. IMHO, if that is what unity is, then there is no need to have further endless dialogues about unity, since just about everyone already agrees to love his neighbor. .
If only we all loved our neighbour as we loved ourselves, then twenty thousand children would not die needlessly every day from grinding poverty and starvation, The world would live in peace, sadly we do not share this unity in love.
 
So we all have to be catholic to have unity?
To have true unity, I truly believe so.
That’s very close minded
May I ask, do you believe Jesus Christ is also closed minded when He declares Himself as the only way to the father?
Benedict vs. the Dictatorship of Relativism by Benjamin Wiker:
ncregister.com/blog/benjamin-wiker/benedict-vs.-the-dictatorship-of-relativism/

In his homily to the 2005 conclave that would soon choose him as the successor of Pope John Paul II, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger warned those attending, “We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one’s own ego and one’s own desires.”

This is a warning that Pope Benedict has not tired of repeating during his pontificate.

Relativism is a poison. It attacks our most human capacity, the capacity to seek and know the truth, including the moral truth. A dictatorship of relativism imposes by real cultural force (and even by political force) a no-standard standard, a command that all must imbibe this poison.

At first blush, it would seem contradictory to have relativism united to dictatorship. Isn’t relativism just a healthy dose of humility, a way to cool the intellectual or religious hot-head who insists, “I, only I, have the truth”?

The proof of the pudding of relativism is in the eating. How has it fared?

“In recent years I find myself noting,” Cardinal Ratzinger said in his Without Roots, “how the more relativism becomes the generally accepted way of thinking, the more it tends toward intolerance. Political correctness … seeks to establish the domain of a single way of thinking and speaking. Its relativism creates the illusion that it has reached greater heights than the loftiest philosophical achievements of the past. It presents itself as the only way to think and speak — if, that is, one wishes to stay in fashion. … I think it is vital that we oppose this imposition of a new pseudo-enlightenment, which threatens freedom of thought as well as freedom of religion.”

That last point is key. While appearing to be the very essence of neutrality and equity — “all views are equal and equally valid” — it actually undermines both the freedom of thought and the freedom of religion. As to the latter, it does so (ironically) as a new religion itself, “a new ‘denomination’ that places restrictions on religious convictions and seeks to subordinate all religions to the super-dogma of relativism.”

As Cardinal Ratzinger noted in his Truth and Tolerance, “relativism … in certain respects has become the real religion of modern man.” It has become, especially in Europe, but now increasingly in America, the religion that stands at the heart of modern secular civilization in the way that Christianity defined the heart of Christendom.

It is the religion, Pope Benedict insists, which the Church must combat in the third millennium for the sake of civilization itself. A civilization built upon dogmatic relativism is one that ensures its own destruction. It is also a civilization in which Christianity — challenging dogmatic relativism with the proclamation that Jesus Christ himself is the Way, the Truth and the Life — must be persecuted.
“America, it is said, is suffering from intolerance — it is not. It is suffering from tolerance. Tolerance of right and wrong, truth and error, virtue and evil, Christ and chaos. Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded.”
― Fulton J. Sheen

“The Church is intolerant in principle because she believes; she is tolerant in practice because she loves.”
-Rev. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange O.P

I hope this has helped, please feel free to reply/refute anything I have said.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
How can that happen when one denies the true presence of Christ in the Eucharist? Where is the communion? One is munching on a cracker and the other is consuming the flesh and blood of God. Do you see what I mean? We don’t arrive at unity by shirking the truth. The truth to a Catholic is first and foremost the Eucharist. It is the source and summit of our faith. It is Jesus. How can we be in communion with one who does not believe that?
As Catholics we believe in the true presence of Christ’s body and blood at communion, until there is an outbreak of flu, then sadly the cup is withdrawn.
 
To have true unity, I truly believe so.

May I ask, do you believe Jesus Christ is also closed minded when He declares Himself as the only way to the father?

“America, it is said, is suffering from intolerance — it is not. It is suffering from tolerance. Tolerance of right and wrong, truth and error, virtue and evil, Christ and chaos. Our country is not nearly so overrun with the bigoted as it is overrun with the broadminded.”
― Fulton J. Sheen

“The Church is intolerant in principle because she believes; she is tolerant in practice because she loves.”
-Rev. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange O.P

I hope this has helped, please feel free to reply/refute anything I have said.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
Let’s face it, I am beginning to lose a lot of of respect for catholics. I even practice Catholicism, and I’m protestant. Close minded people on such a week.
I will he attending catholic mass as well as my church service. I’m done with this thread. Hell one week a year we should get along and seems most of you can’t.
I’ll happily take my protestant butt to my church, as well as the catholic mass, and remain in thought, you all need to grow up

Fwi, its been catholics picking on protestants, same damn way I tried to do rcia because my son is roman catholic but was told I can’t take it. Why? Because I wouldn’t convert. So awesome to know the catholic stand point on children is no.

My actual ideals and such are not like that, I’m not like that. I’ve just noticed a wide bunch of catholics saying unity’s not possible because wont follow their church and that their church is right and not mine…

Ignorance.
 
Let’s face it, I am beginning to lose a lot of of respect for catholics.
Okay.
I even practice Catholicism, and I’m protestant.
:confused: If you practice Catholicism, may I ask what it is that your protesting? How does one practice Catholicism and at the same time say they are protesting against it?
Close minded people on such a week.
I will he attending catholic mass as well as my church service. I’m done with this thread. Hell one week a year we should get along and seems most of you can’t. I’ll happily take my protestant butt to my church, as well as the catholic mass, and remain in thought, you all need to grow up
Okay.
Fwi, its been catholics picking on protestants, same damn way I tried to do rcia because my son is roman catholic but was told I can’t take it. Why? Because I wouldn’t convert. So awesome to know the catholic stand point on children is no.
:confused: If you wish to learn about Catholicism, than that I believe is perfectly fine and furthermore I applaud you for it, as knowing the differences between the two you can make an informed decision. Or do you mean, you wanted to do RCIA and take Holy Communion even though you didn’t want to convert to Catholicism?
My actual ideals and such are not like that, I’m not like that.
:confused: Like what? If you mean some of the quotes I used above, I in no way meant to imply that you were an ‘enemy of the Church’ or anything of the kind, I apologise if that’s how you took it. I meant it in the regard that, “Love without truth is blind and truth without love is empty.” - Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger
I’ve just noticed a wide bunch of catholics saying unity’s not possible because wont follow their church and that their church is right and not mine…
:confused:

Protestant Define:
A member or follower of any of the Western Christian Churches that are separate from the Roman Catholic Church in accordance with the principles of the Reformation, including the Baptist, Presbyterian, and Lutheran Churches.

May I ask how someone can be united to the Roman Catholic Church and at the same time protesting against it?
Ignorance.
Okay.

I hope this has helped.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
I will he attending catholic mass as well as my church service. .
Unity is a struggle, we must not give up, we all try and do our little bit, I seem to feel at home in a Churches Together service and our Catholic mass.

On Good Friday, we have a churches together service in the Anglican Church, then a united walk of witness. I shall go to mass in the afternoon. In the evening, I shall be in the Baptist church, with Christians from three denominations, we then go out on the streets together until around 3 am. We can come into contact with anger, fights, drunks, suicidal people, depression and lots of wonderful people too. We try and be the love of God out on the streets of our town.

We also have a churches together sunrise service, outside in the park on Easter Sunday, there is often a greater sense of joy when it is windy and raining and we are all together.
 
I’m done with this thread.
Let’s just say I warned you in my post #2. It’s hard to say, “I told you so,” without being the other side thinking that you are some kind of being arrogant. I am not and I love you, a Christian love from one to another.

But you have to be clear in what you are trying to bring out when you suggested unity. We have been down this road too often, and often times we could not agree on what to be united about.

Is it unity on the truth or unity in love.

(1) There should be no pretense, there is actually no unity on the truth, otherwise we would not be in different churches.

(2) But if it is unity in love, perhaps as you seemed to imply and someone suggested, well, we are taught to love. And where does this love ends: is it for Christians only or to all mankind, since they too are creations of God? You seemed to tick me off for being ignorant when I suggested that we should extend our unity to Muslims and the Bahais too. Talking about being loving and gentle … .
Ignorance.
Great. Unity indeed.:rolleyes:

God bless you.

Reuben.
 
Eternal Salvation must be the highest good for anyone, billions of people have died a non Catholic, we pray for salvation for all people. Only God can sort our human mess out

I truthfully believe that scriptures are more powerful when we use them to try and change ourselves, rather than when we use them to try and change other people. I am a Catholic, and it is a huge challenge to try and change myself, it is not in my power to change anyone else.
Amen - Well stated.
Let’s face it, I am beginning to lose a lot of of respect for Catholics. I even practice Catholicism, and I’m protestant. Close minded people on such a week.
I will he attending catholic mass as well as my church service. I’m done with this thread. Hell one week a year we should get along and seems most of you can’t.
I’ll happily take my protestant butt to my church, as well as the catholic mass, and remain in thought, you all need to grow up.
Sorry to hear that you are done with this thread. In what way do you feel we are not getting along? Is it because we are expressing our concerns and valid points of view on the difficulties in attaining unity?
Fwi, its been catholics picking on protestants, same damn way I tried to do rcia because my son is roman catholic but was told I can’t take it. Why? Because I wouldn’t convert. So awesome to know the catholic stand point on children is no.
My actual ideals and such are not like that, I’m not like that. I’ve just noticed a wide bunch of catholics saying unity’s not possible because wont follow their church and that their church is right and not mine…
Ignorance.
I’m sure that this will not be taken in the right way, but this strike as a microcosm of protestantism in action. Bring up an issue and make a proposal, and when others disagree with you just leave instead of sticking it out. Instead of looking for common ground, call the opposition “ignorant” and declare, “I’m done”…
It actually makes me sad.

The fact is my dear timmylee is that coming to unity IS hard. It DOES require a lot of hard discussion and search for truth. We have attempted to show you this by our posts and citing Scripture as our source. Have you replied with anything that shows us the error of our point of view? If you have I have not seen it - but if you wish to point it out to this ignorant old Catholic - I will gladly reconsider my position.

In the meantime…I truly do hope you have a happy and a blessed Easter.

Peace
James
 
Catholics don’t believe that Anglican priests are validly ordained.
Begs the question of what the Anglicans’ views on the Catholics are!
Might depend on which Anglican you ask…There is now an “Anglican Ordinariate” within the Catholic Church. So we have parishes using many Anglican practices with Anglican pastors who have been validly ordained by the Catholic Church.

Peace
James
 
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