Unity

[JRKH]

James, I love how strong willed you are. Kinda funny cause of how we are both rocks, just on different sores.

To give you more insight into what I think. I don’t think I’m right, nor do I think your wrong. The left foot cannot walk without the right. Saying that I mean even though we are different does that not mean we are seperate in chirst? I love how you proclaim your faith, its awesome! I’m the same.

I’ll say it again, we have different churches, but when you corner a christian, tradition and faith shine more than gold. Thats a common thought. My catholic brother, if anyone to put you in a corner, my brother, I would be the first to be behind you.

Well Timmy I love you too.

I love you so much that I am going to continue to gently needle you and to tell you that platitudes, such as the left can’t walk without the right, simply won’t make the very real issues go away.

I am asking you as a fellow believer in Christ to walk with me on a path. To explore - for a bit - how this unity that you seek plays out. I am neither promoting Catholicism nor Protestantism. I’m using only Scripture. Do you have the confidence?

I only ask that you reply to the scenario that I proposed earlier.
What are two sincere, Lovers of Christ to do when they genuinely fear that the other is teaching a false Gospel?
What does Scripture say they should do?

Come - don’t let “Love” keep us from serious discussion on a topic of importance to the body of Christ. After all - it’s following Christ and answering His prayer to the Father that we are after - - (John 17:20-21)

Peace
James

 

[Matthew_Light]

Love and Respect yes - - - Not fight over differences of belief - - - How do you avoid this when you believe that the difference could send your brother to hell?

That is a deep, profound and critically important question. A question worthy of pondering, until the power locked inside that question has a transformative effect on the one reflecting upon it.

How indeed.

 

[timmylee87]

Well Timmy I love you too.

I love you so much that I am going to continue to gently needle you and to tell you that platitudes, such as the left can’t walk without the right, simply won’t make the very real issues go away.

I am asking you as a fellow believer in Christ to walk with me on a path. To explore - for a bit - how this unity that you seek plays out. I am neither promoting Catholicism nor Protestantism. I’m using only Scripture. Do you have the confidence?

I only ask that you reply to the scenario that I proposed earlier.
What are two sincere, Lovers of Christ to do when they genuinely fear that the other is teaching a false Gospel?
What does Scripture say they should do?

Come - don’t let “Love” keep us from serious discussion on a topic of importance to the body of Christ. After all - it’s following Christ and answering His prayer to the Father that we are after - - (John 17:20-21)

Peace
James

If we use the word against or to make a point, would that not be against the word? I am not worried that I cannot quote the word, its more so that we both could pull the word out on each other. Which frankly would get ugly, and be against the very word its self

 

[Eric_Hyom]

If you forsake truth in your search for love and unity, I believe you will get neither unity nor love. Josh

Hello Josh, if two commandments are greatest, does that not make them a greatest truth?

Could the greatest commandments possibly describe how Christ is one with the Father?

Jesus loves God the Father with all his heart, soul, mind and strength.
Jesus loves all of us as he loves himself.

And the Father responds in the same way…

God the Father loves God the Son with all his heart, soul, mind and strength.
God the Father loves each all of us as he loves himself.

You could say Jesus loves us more than he loves himself, he died for us all. On the other hand, you could also say that Jesus loves us less than he loves himself because he holds the power of heaven and hell over each and everyone of us. The greatest commandments are profound and beyond my understanding.

Furthermore, if everyone is going to heaven anyway, what is the point of evangelizing or even knowing the truth?

Beyond a doubt, the Jews are God’s chosen people, and we are chosen by Christ, did God make a mistake when he chose our separate paths? If we should achieve eternal salvation, evangelising would seem to have little meaning in heaven, the greatest commandments might be all we need.

and thus you remove Christ’s whole purpose of even coming, so that we may have life and have it in it’s fullest

If I should achieve eternal salvation, I believe it will be through the grace, mercy and forgiveness of our Lord Jesus Christ, it will not be through my own efforts, I have sinned and I continue to sin. I have family and friends who I believe will live their life outside the Catholic Church, and they will die non- Catholics, I pray for that same mercy, grace and forgiveness for each of them and for all people.

I still struggle trying to change myself, let alone change anyone else.

God Bless

Thank you for reading

 

[Vanez]

Like I said, mass, service is one day a week, are we not Christians the other 6 days?

Huh? FYI, At Catholic Church, mass is not only on sunday. At Protestant church, Holy Communion only happens once a month, there are those churches that only have Holy Communion four times in one year. And, there are Protestant churches whose “Holy” Communion is not blessed, just like what I have for breakfast every morning

 

[Eric_Hyom]

The greatest commandments are very much to do with interfaith and religious relationships, as the Parable of the Good Samaritan describes. It sounds as if the Jews and Samaritans had a similar relationship to Christians and Muslims today, possibly not very charitable towards each other.

The priest and the Levite are God’s chosen people, yet Jesus tells a story that makes them out to be the bad guys, they walk past and ignore a wounded man. The Samaritan, who is the religious bad guy; stops to help the wounded man, and his actions outshine those of God’s chosen elite, the priests.

God gave the priests and Levites religious laws, if they helped the wounded man, they would become unclean, and so they would not be able to perform their religious duties for a while. There are also other laws that say if a priest becomes unclean, there is a period of time he should spend purifying himself before he can continue with his religious duties.

These laws came from God - Jesus, and yet Jesus asks us to look at how we apply these religious laws that he gave us. There are a number of stories when Jesus heals the sick on the Sabbath, this seemingly brings him into conflict with how the priests apply the laws that came from Jesus in the first place.

The greatest commandments are like a hook to hang your coat on. All the law; including religious law and the prophets of God are like the coat that hangs on the hook. If the coat gets knocked off the hook, it lands on the floor to be trampled on.

.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Huh? FYI, At Catholic Church, mass is not only on sunday. At Protestant church, Holy Communion only happens once a month, there are those churches that only have Holy Communion four times in one year. And, there are Protestant churches whose “Holy” Communion is not blessed, just like what I have for breakfast every morning

Todays mass, ‘The Last Supper’ Jesus washes the feet of his disciples and he gave us a new commandment, love one another as I have loved you.

All Christians washing each others feet would be a profound step towards unity, I know it happens in places, we did it a few years ago at a shared service in August.

 

[Vanez]

Todays mass, ‘The Last Supper’ Jesus washes the feet of his disciples and he gave us a new commandment, love one another as I have loved you.

All Christians washing each others feet would be a profound step towards unity, I know it happens in places, we did it a few years ago at a shared service in August.

We will have it next week, from wednesday evening until our Easter day: sunday 12 April.

I think i’ll have to stay at Church the whole day on saturday because we’ll be having the liturgy of st. Basil, and in the night, i have to attend it again from 10:30 PM - 01:30 AM, but that’s not all…we will be cleaning the church for Antiochian parishioners.

It’s tiring, but I’m excited! This sunday 5 april, we’ll be welcoming bishops.

My mom is a Pentecostal, just like Timmy. And she was shocked when I first handed her a schedule of what happens in my church until Easter

 

[JRKH]

If we use the word against or to make a point, would that not be against the word?

It’s going to depend on the point that is being made…
If one were to do as you suggest above, use the word against another then yes - that would be against the word. However, if one uses the word to correct and to build unity, then that is not against the word and indeed fulfills the word - for the Holy Spirit tells us through St Paul the the word is useful for correction…(2 Tim 3:15-17).

I am not worried that I cannot quote the word, its more so that we both could pull the word out on each other. Which frankly would get ugly, and be against the very word its self

Why would it get ugly?

Peace
James

 

[Mount_Carmel]

I posted this in a separate thread. Over the course of the week I’ve learned about my brothers and sisters of different churches. So I thought of starting this thread this week, being holy week and all lol.

What’s everyone’s thoughts on unity? I think all of us should stop bickering and fighting. Its such small things we fight over. Its kinda like a family fued, in the end there is no winners… Unless, we all see we are the children of god, rather than point out our differences we point out each others strengths, and allow each others to build us higher. Catholics, I love how traditional your church is, its something I would love in mine time to time. I’ll share my outward thinking, bubbly energy with you! Lol

Just an example there, but seriously everyone, Any faith, let me hear your (name removed by moderator)ut, would us as Christians be better off together than divided? I don’t mean everyone converting, but our churches coming together. I believe and pray to my lord, God, Jesus died so that I may live, and the holy spirit is in my heart. Are we so different?

Unity, as in the one fold, under the authority that Jesus expressed to Simon Peter, must be God’s preferred option. Jesus did not preach in many voices, but in one. It is Satan, with his legion/many identities that seeks to sow division.

I am reminded of the then Archbishop of Canterbury Dr. Robert Runcie’s words in 1982, after Pope John Paul II’s visit - expressing his own thoughts that unity was the preferred option, and that the Pope would be the natural Leader.

I also have that hymn ‘Bind Us Together’ buzzing through my head, even as I type.

 

[josh987654321]

Hello Josh,

Hi Eric Hyom

if two commandments are greatest, does that not make them a greatest truth?

Yes.
Gospel of Matthew:

36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” 37 And he said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. 38 This is the great and first commandment. 39 And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. 40 On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.”

I believe the problems arise when, for example; someone is in love with their mistress; Or someone is in love with a member of the same sex. I believe these problems can easily be intensified with an ambiguous understanding of the two greatest commandments. As it ends with ‘All the law and the prophets are based on these’ So I believe what the law and the prophets say are also important.

Could the greatest commandments possibly describe how Christ is one with the Father?

Sure.

Beyond a doubt, the Jews are God’s chosen people, and we are chosen by Christ, did God make a mistake when he chose our separate paths? If we should achieve eternal salvation, evangelising would seem to have little meaning in heaven, the greatest commandments might be all we need.

However, as I mentioned above, I believe there can arise problems when people find ways to open the two greatest commandments up to ambiguity.

If I should achieve eternal salvation, I believe it will be through the grace, mercy and forgiveness of our Lord Jesus Christ, it will not be through my own efforts, I have sinned and I continue to sin. I have family and friends who I believe will live their life outside the Catholic Church, and they will die non- Catholics, I pray for that same mercy, grace and forgiveness for each of them and for all people.

I completely agree.

I still struggle trying to change myself, let alone change anyone else.

I don’t mean to try and change anyone else. Only to express my views.

God Bless

Thank you for reading

x2

I hope this has helped.

Thank you Eric Hyom.

 

[aidanbradypop]

Unity, as in the one fold, under the authority that Jesus expressed to Simon Peter, must be God’s preferred option. Jesus did not preach in many voices, but in one. It is Satan, with his legion/many identities that seeks to sow division.

I am reminded of the then Archbishop of Canterbury Dr. Robert Runcie’s words in 1982, after Pope John Paul II’s visit - expressing his own thoughts that unity was the preferred option, and that the Pope would be the natural Leader.

I also have that hymn ‘Bind Us Together’ buzzing through my head, even as I type.

Why is it that a non Catholic Christian has to become Catholic in order for there to be unity? There is a ministry in my town called Churches United for the Homeless. A wonderful thing going on. Churches of all traditions come together for the common good. They feed the hungry, shelter the homeless and provide for the poor. Methodist volunteer alongside of Episcopalians. Baptist cook alongside of Pentecostals. Seeing Christians act like Christians warms my soul and I am sure it pleases God.

If people wish to view the Pope as a leader then I applaud that. The fellowship I belong to has a leader. Pope Francis can teach us all something about being humble.

 

[josh987654321]

Why is it that a non Catholic Christian has to become Catholic in order for there to be unity? There is a ministry in my town called Churches United for the Homeless. A wonderful thing going on. Churches of all traditions come together for the common good. They feed the hungry, shelter the homeless and provide for the poor. Methodist volunteer alongside of Episcopalians. Baptist cook alongside of Pentecostals. Seeing Christians act like Christians warms my soul and I am sure it pleases God.

If people wish to view the Pope as a leader then I applaud that. The fellowship I belong to has a leader. Pope Francis can teach us all something about being humble.

Hi aidanbradypop, I hope you don’t mind if I try and answer.

I believe with the example you gave above, that that is great, I believe there can be unity there because we are all united in a common cause, which is feeding the homeless, which is based in the ‘truth’ of the Gospel message regarding alms giving, thus this unity I believe is based on truth, therefore I believe any unity is based on truth.

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[aidanbradypop]

Hi aidanbradypop, I hope you don’t mind if I try and answer.

I believe with the example you gave above, that that is great, I believe there can be unity there because we are all united in a common cause, which is feeding the homeless, which is based in the ‘truth’ of the Gospel message regarding alms giving, thus this unity I believe is based on truth, therefore I believe unity is based on truth.

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

Hey Josh! You can call me Dustin.

My church sends missionaries to central America all the time. Many people that they help happen to be Roman Catholic. Would it surprise you to learn that our Mission Pastor speaks againt trying to convert them? If someone ask then they share a testimony but they leave it at that. We can often get caught up with the whole numbers issue which can blind us to the issues of the world. Show people the love of Christ. Then allow the Holy Spirit to go to work.

 

[josh987654321]

Hey Josh! You can call me Dustin.

Okay.

My church sends missionaries to central America all the time. Many people that they help happen to be Roman Catholic. Would it surprise you to learn that our Mission Pastor speaks againt trying to convert them? If someone ask then they share a testimony but they leave it at that. We can often get caught up with the whole numbers issue which can blind us to the issues of the world. Show people the love of Christ. Then allow the Holy Spirit to go to work.

Okay, that’s all good. I believe though, that the only way to work toward further unity among Christians, is to work toward truth. To have open, respectable dialogue with one another over the scriptures based on truth, and we can unite over the truths we agree on and have respectable dialogue over the things we disagree on. And thus the more we Christians have in common together, the more unity among Christians that I believe will automatically follow.

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[josh987654321]

It’s going to depend on the point that is being made…
If one were to do as you suggest above, use the word against another then yes - that would be against the word. However, if one uses the word to correct and to build unity, then that is not against the word and indeed fulfills the word - for the Holy Spirit tells us through St Paul the the word is useful for correction…(2 Tim 3:15-17).

Why would it get ugly?

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

Why is it that a non Catholic Christian has to become Catholic in order for there to be unity?

Good Question.
I think that you have hit on one of the main problem with these kinds of conversations. One that has to do with semantics and differing “camps” so to speak.

Let’s forget about “becoming” something else (whether Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist or whatever) in order to attain unity as described in the NT.
Lets’ just look at the NT and let it speak for itself. Way back in post number 23 on page 2 I listed a number of passages from NT Scripture describing unity - being one.
This is a very profound call to unity…not a loose interconnection of diverse groups.

Do you not see this as well…

There is a ministry in my town called Churches United for the Homeless. A wonderful thing going on. Churches of all traditions come together for the common good. They feed the hungry, shelter the homeless and provide for the poor. Methodist volunteer alongside of Episcopalians. Baptist cook alongside of Pentecostals. Seeing Christians act like Christians warms my soul and I am sure it pleases God.

Yes I am sure it does please God. No doubt about it.

If people wish to view the Pope as a leader then I applaud that. The fellowship I belong to has a leader. Pope Francis can teach us all something about being humble.

Now - to really follow the biblical model - we need to get your Church leader and our Church leader together in council to hammer out the theological differences between them. Just like the Judaizers and the Gentiles did in Acts.

Peace
James

 

[aidanbradypop]

Good Question.
I think that you have hit on one of the main problem with these kinds of conversations. One that has to do with semantics and differing “camps” so to speak.

Let’s forget about “becoming” something else (whether Catholic, Lutheran, Methodist or whatever) in order to attain unity as described in the NT.
Lets’ just look at the NT and let it speak for itself. Way back in post number 23 on page 2 I listed a number of passages from NT Scripture describing unity - being one.
This is a very profound call to unity…not a loose interconnection of diverse groups.

Do you not see this as well…

I’m not sure the OP is asking for everyone to become one Church. I believe he is asking for all of us to come together as followers of Jesus Christ and to love and live together. We should not only live together on this world but also make it a better place!

Catholics use the reformation as an example of disunity. I do not disagree, but it happened well before that. It happened before the east and west separated. It may have even happened before the Jewish and Gentile Christians felt a divide. One could say it started when the twelve tribes sought the highest level of importance.

What I mean by this is that I believe we will never be one Church until the dead rise in Christ and the living rise to meet Him. Your beliefs are true for you as my beliefs are true for me.

We do know one thing for certain, and that is that Jesus died so that we may have life eternally! What a great place to start. When I go on mission trips, I always preach that Jesus is our Lord and Savior. By the power of the Holy Spirit, I make it my mission to make sure people known that Christ died for them and that they have an opportunity to share eternal life with Him if they so choose. I do not try and gain members for Protestantism or Catholicism. I try to introduce Jesus Christ so that God gains another child. Wherever they attend service is between them and the Holy Ghost.

Now - to really follow the biblical model - we need to get your Church leader and our Church leader together in council to hammer out the theological differences between them. Just like the Judaizers and the Gentiles did in Acts.

Peace
James

so would we speak in tongues after receiving the Lord’s Supper?

 

[JRKH]

I’m not sure the OP is asking for everyone to become one Church.

I know that the is not asking everyone to become one Church…but the OP did use a word that has a very deep and profound meaning to Catholics - and Timmy did ask about this on a Catholic website. There should be no surprise that many of the answers are from a Catholic perspective.

I believe he is asking for all of us to come together as followers of Jesus Christ and to love and live together. We should not only live together on this world but also make it a better place!

And I say AMEN. Let’s do it.

All that I and others here are pointing out is that such cooperation does not equal unity as we understand the term - and as Scripture describes unity.

Catholics use the reformation as an example of disunity. I do not disagree, but it happened well before that. It happened before the east and west separated. It may have even happened before the Jewish and Gentile Christians felt a divide. One could say it started when the twelve tribes sought the highest level of importance.

Yes - This is actually a whole topic by itself…
But just to address the first point, the reason that Catholics point to the reformation is mainly two-fold.

1. We are often talking with people who are in communities that trace their roots back to the reformation and hold to Sola Scriptura in some form or another.
2. The Reformation seems to have resulted in a splintering quite unlike the earlier wounds to unity.

What I mean by this is that I believe we will never be one Church until the dead rise in Christ and the living rise to meet Him.

I’m quite sure that this is the reality of the matter…BUT (there is always a “but”)
Being one is what we are called to by Scripture. Do you agree with that?

We do know one thing for certain, and that is that Jesus died so that we may have life eternally! What a great place to start. When I go on mission trips, I always preach that Jesus is our Lord and Savior. By the power of the Holy Spirit, I make it my mission to make sure people known that Christ died for them and that they have an opportunity to share eternal life with Him if they so choose.

Amen - that is wonderful milk and certainly the place one must start.

Something that I want to point out once again - - - sorry if I sound like a broken record - - - Each of the things that people have pointed out are wonderful things and well worth pursuing together. I don’t think that any Catholic would dispute that.
But - we must not think that such ecumenical efforts equal unity in the sense that it is described in Scripture.

so would we speak in tongues after receiving the Lord’s Supper?

If the Spirit moves them…

Peace
James

 

[aidanbradypop]

I know that the is not asking everyone to become one Church…but the OP did use a word that has a very deep and profound meaning to Catholics - and Timmy did ask about this on a Catholic website. There should be no surprise that many of the answers are from a Catholic perspective.

Fair enough

And I say AMEN. Let’s do it.

All that I and others here are pointing out is that such cooperation does not equal unity as we understand the term - and as Scripture describes unity

I understand that. I would say that we can be united in love for one another, against Satan and to spreading the love of Jesus Christ.

Yes - This is actually a whole topic by itself…
But just to address the first point, the reason that Catholics point to the reformation is mainly two-fold.

1. We are often talking with people who are in communities that trace their roots back to the reformation and hold to Sola Scriptura in some form or another.
2. The Reformation seems to have resulted in a splintering quite unlike the earlier wounds to unity.

I have done this topic on a few forums. It can be very interesting if done with respect

I’m quite sure that this is the reality of the matter…BUT (there is always a “but”)
Being one is what we are called to by Scripture. Do you agree with that?

Of course I agree with that. As you stated yourself, Catholics have a different understanding of what one means.

Something that I want to point out once again - - - sorry if I sound like a broken record - - - Each of the things that people have pointed out are wonderful things and well worth pursuing together. I don’t think that any Catholic would dispute that.
But - we must not think that such ecumenical efforts equal unity in the sense that it is described in Scripture.

I am not asking for that type of unity that you type about. We are united in the fact that we are Christian and should act like it. I promise to give it my best effort!

If the Spirit moves them…

Peace
James