"Universal Balloting" in Vermont May Becomes Norm(Colorado, Oregon, Georgia)

[gam197]

Post-It Votes: Mail-In Voting in Vermont May Be Here to Stay | Politics | Seven Days | Vermont's Independent Voice

There was another thread and a number of posters and I spent a great deal of dialogue trying to figure out how Vermont ended up with 520,000 registered voters of which 92% are currently registered -approx. 506.00. The 2020 population of Vermont is 625,000. including children.

In 2016 the registered voter’s numbers were 471,000 and the turnout 320,000. The 2018 turnout was 278,000.

The 2020 total for voting in the presidential election was high at 371,000. It was brought up that Georgia also did Universal Voter registration. (Colorado, Washington, Hawaii and Oregon already have Universal mail-in balloting.

There are two things one is universal voter registration and the second is universal mail-in balloting where each registered voter is sent a ballot.

ThiinkingSapien gave us a lot of information. Here is part of the article he posted.

Data from the secretary of state’s office shows the uptick in registered voters has been driven largely by the state’s new automatic voter registration system, which took effect in January 2017.

The system allows voters to register automatically when they receive or update their driver’s licenses, or other forms of identification, at the Department of Motor Vehicles.

With driver’s licenses due to be renewed every four years, Secretary of State Jim Condos expects the new system will continue to bring in a spike of registrations for the next few years.

“It takes us a full cycle before we get everybody,” he said. “The goal is we’re going to get as many eligible Vermonters as possible to be registered to vote.”

I know that Vermont is one of a number of states that allow undocumented to get licenses.

In 2013, Vermont became one of the few states in the nation to offer driver’s licenses to undocumented immigrants

In 2013, the Vermont legalized driver privilege cards, which allow state residents to drive even if they don’t have proof of U.S. citizenship .

https://www.fairvote.org/universal_voter_registration

Doveskin posted this about Georgia.

Washington Post had a story about Georgia that said they changed their registration procedure in 2016, making it the default when renewing drivers license. You can opt out, but you would have to check an extra box. Their registered voters went from 78% of eligible voters in 2016 to 98% of eligible voters in 2020. This is comparable to Vermont.

A number of states have universal mail-in balloting… I believe it was done through legislatures. Should it be a ballot vote?

So how do we know that undocumented aliens do not use their license to get a mail-in ballot?
Any info?

 

[OraLabora]

So how do we know that undocumented aliens do not use their license to get a mail-in ballot?
Any info?

Well I don’t know how Vt does it, but it seems to me as a retired IT guy it wouldn’t be too hard to put a boolean field in the database for “citizen”. And then when sending out the ballots, query that database: if citizen = Y then print ballot. One would have to provide proof of citizenship upon applying for a licence (US passport, US birth certificate) and without it the field remains N or blank.

It really isn’t rocket science.

 

[gam197]

Well I don’t know how Vt does it, but it seems to me as a retired IT guy it wouldn’t be too hard to put a boolean field in the database for “citizen”. And then when sending out the ballots, query that database: if citizen = Y then print ballot. One would have to provide proof of citizenship upon applying for a licence (US passport, US birth certificate) and without it the field remains N or blank.

It really isn’t rocket science.

Currently, Vermont gives out the license or license cards to undocumented aliens who could technically vote… Here is the license form.

.!(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.) (Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Well I don’t know how Vt does it, but it seems to me as a retired IT guy it wouldn’t be too hard to put a boolean field in the database for “citizen”. And then when sending out the ballots, query that database: if citizen = Y then print ballot. One would have to provide proof of citizenship upon applying for a licence (US passport, US birth certificate) and without it the field remains N or blank.

As a software engineer, I would use the same implementation.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Currently, Vermont gives out the license or license cards to undocumented aliens who could technically vote… Here is the license form.

Hmmmm…I see a checkbox for citizenship. That translates perfectly into what @OraLabora described.

 

[Dovekin]

The Department for Homeland Security has been implementing a plan for IDs that identify citizens, known as Real ID. This is mostly implemented through drivers licenses, which need birth certificate, passport or equivalent to be Real ID compliant.

The drivers license application is sent to the election office, usually secretary of state, to register to vote. Presumably only those who meet the criteria are registered. Those who are not citizens do not qualify for registration, as the form says.

 

[gam197]

Hmmmm…I see a checkbox for citizenship. That translates perfectly into what @OraLabora described.

True but a number posters have brought this on the thread that people lie even people on these threads admitted to lying to pollsters so why not lie on a ballot?

 

[gam197]

The Department for Homeland Security has been implementing a plan for IDs that identify citizens, known as Real ID. This is mostly implemented through drivers licenses, which need birth certificate, passport or equivalent to be Real ID compliant.

I think this helps a great deal but program is just starting.

The drivers license application is sent to the election office, usually secretary of state, to register to vote. Presumably only those who meet the criteria are registered. Those who are not citizens do not qualify for registration, as the form says.

The secretary of state is not going to check these in Vermont. They can easily lie about it and they will get a mail-in ballot.

 

[Dovekin]

The secretary of state is not going to check these in Vermont. They can easily lie about it and they will get a mail-in ballot.

How do you know the Secretary of State in Vermont will not check? What procedure is better than the one on the Vermont form?

One of the things the universal registration shows is that the registration process has been an obstacle to voting for some people. Simplifying the process by connecting it to driver licenses has led to more people voting, something everyone should want. Mail in voting has also served that end. Liars can manipulate any system, but probably less than earlier in person systems.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

True but a number posters have brought this on the thread that people lie

Afraid I don’t get what ever you are trying to imply here.

 

[gam197]

gam197:

rue but a number posters have brought this on the thread that people lie

Afraid I don’t get what ever you are trying to imply here.

This was brought up by another poster on another thread as the discussion was talking about polls and how people often lie

 

[ThinkingSapien]

This was brought up by another poster on another thread as the discussion was talking about polls and how people often lie

And what does telling a lie have to do with the issue in this thread?

 

[gam197]

gam197:

The secretary of state is not going to check these in Vermont. They can easily lie about it and they will get a mail-in ballot.

How do you know the Secretary of State in Vermont will not check? What procedure is better than the one on the Vermont form?

Vermont is a small state population wise so financially I doubt t hey would have the means to do so and really the state seems to more about adding numbers to get to 520,000 registrations.

One of the things the universal registration shows is that the registration process has been an obstacle to voting for some people. Simplifying the process by connecting it to driver licenses has led to more people voting, something everyone should want. Mail in voting has also served that end. Liars can manipulate any system, but probably less than earlier in person systems.

There would be less chance for corruption today with the in-person system but I could see how in the future with Real ID, that could change.

gam197:

This was brought up by another poster on another thread as the discussion was talking about polls and how people often lie

And what does telling a lie have to do with the issue in this thread?

Telling a lie has a great deal to do with many things including voting. . People lie about all kinds of things.

 

[ThinkingSapien]

Telling a lie has a great deal to do with many things including voting. . People lie about all kinds of things.

Hmmm…that sounds more like repetition without saying anything to bring clarity. Onto other threads…

 

[Annie]

If when you get your drivers license they have to check your id, then they can match that up against your response to the citizenship question, so it would be dumb to lie.

I have not liked motor-voter registration but if this system were widely implemented, then we would have something on which to base a system whereby people who move to another state would be taken off the rolls in the first state. This could now be done in conjunction with the changeover of drivers licenses.

Since people who have died are unlikely to renew their license, they would be taken off the rolls within 4 years (which I think they should incorporate into the system) so another plus.

Then all we would need to worry about is people with no drivers license or state id (rare), and people ineligible to vote due to felony convictions, so maybe we could get the courts to notify the voter registration people when that happens.

Still not thrilled about mailing out ballots willy-nilly instead of on request, but after this election, I am also not thrilled with people’s ability to vote weeks before election day, either. I know at least one person who would have voted differently on Election Day…

 

[gam197]

gam197:

Telling a lie has a great deal to do with many things including voting. . People lie about all kinds of things.

Hmmm…that sounds more like repetition without saying anything to bring clarity. Onto other threads

No people do lie and they lie z out just anything so currently, the risk for lying is too easy…

 

[gam197]

If when you get your drivers license they have to check your id, then they can match that up against your response to the citizenship question, so it would be dumb to lie.

I have not liked motor-voter registration but if this system were widely implemented, then we would have something on which to base a system whereby people who move to another state would be taken off the rolls in the first state. This could now be done in conjunction with the changeover of drivers licenses.

Since people who have died are unlikely to renew their license, they would be taken off the rolls within 4 years (which I think they should incorporate into the system) so another plus.

Then all we would need to worry about is people with no drivers license or state id (rare), and people ineligible to vote due to felony convictions, so maybe we could get the courts to notify the voter registration people when that happens.

Still not thrilled about mailing out ballots willy-nilly instead of on request, but after this election, I am also not thrilled with people’s ability to vote weeks before election day, either. I know at least one person who would have voted differently on Election Day…

Well if they have 100% real ID at some point, it seems to pretty slow going, then mail in ballots could be sent out.

M problem then would not be with mailing out a ballot but returning and I think they should be required to return them in person and show their ID to the town or city clerks office. They would have plenty of time to do that. That would clear up the idea that if was not you who signed the ballot. There is not way currently to verify signatures as most states do not have scanning machines and did not even scan them according Ballotpedia. Most states in this election did manual signature checking if they did any at all and so poll workers actually did it.

That again brings in the general feeling about lying and corruption

 

[puer.dei]

The secretary of state is not going to check these in Vermont. They can easily lie about it and they will get a mail-in ballot.

Then please cite the statistics on voter fraud charges in Vermont.
We’ll wait

 

[gam197]

gam197:

The secretary of state is not going to check these in Vermont. They can easily lie about it and they will get a mail-in ballot.

Then please cite the statistics on voter fraud charges in Vermont.
We’ll wait

Vermont is a very small state and these states have no money to do all this checking so the potential for voter fraud is definitely there. Vermont like most states has a good number of illegal aliens because people jump the northern border down from Canada .

Again there is no way currently to verify who was registered to vote. It would seem to be that with 506,000 + registered voters out of 520,000 that everyone 18 and older in the state got a ballot.

The population is only 625,000 in 2020.

 

[puer.dei]

So how do we know that undocumented aliens do not use their license to get a mail-in ballot?
Any info?

Well, for one thing, in Vermont (your favorite target) undocumented aliens and non-residents don’t get a drivers license. They get a drivers privilege card. So its a completely different piece of documentation.
Again - search engines are your friend.