Universal catholic church and The Catholic church

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steve-b said:
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annad347:
if you can’t participate in all of them you can’t recieve salvation? Of course not cause particpating in the scraments isnt what gives you salvation. You can recieve salvation without participating in all of them
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steve-b said:
Re: the Eucharist…, post HERE
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annad347:
That’s 1, arent there 7 in the Catholic church?
  • Baptism.
  • Eucharist.
  • Confirmation.
  • Reconciliation.
  • Anointing of the sick.
  • Marriage.
  • Holy orders.
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Yes there are 7. I was responding to your following comment

" if you can’t participate in all of them you can’t recieve salvation? Of course not cause particpating in the scraments isnt what gives you salvation. You can recieve salvation without participating in all of them"

So I showed you in my response, one sacrament that is the summit of our faith… and the consequences for NOT participating. Again my response was a quote from Jesus.
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I was responding to the word all. If I dont participate in all the sacraments I can not receive salvation?
 
annad347 said:
I was responding to the word all . If I dont participate in all the sacraments I can not receive salvation?
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I don’t believe the Church is saying that. Most of us will not receive Holy Orders. But those Holy Orders benefit all, through their ministry.

Not all of us will marry. Not all of us will receive Anointing of the Sick.

Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist, Reconciliation these are “required.”
 
He said to them, “I have eagerly desired to eat this Passover with you before I suffer, for, I tell you, I shall not eat it [again] until there is fulfillment in the kingdom of God.” Then he took a cup, gave thanks, and said, “Take this and share it among yourselves; for I tell you [that] from this time on I shall not drink of the fruit of the vine until the kingdom of God comes.” Then he took the bread, said the blessing, broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body, which will be given for you; do this in memory of me.” And likewise the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which will be shed for you.
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Emphasis mine.
 
Justin_Mary said:
I don’t believe the Church is saying that
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I didn’t think the Catholic church said that, but I don’t know everything the Cathilic church teaches… but I agree, I doubt that’s what the church teaches.

But @steve-b seems to be a very smart guy, he sounds like he knows his faith, so I was wondering if he believes a person can not receive salvation if they do not participate in all the sacraments…
 
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annad347 said:
I was responding to the word all. If I dont participate in all the sacraments I can not receive salvation?
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And I was showing you from Jesus own words, the necessity of receiving the Eucharist.
 
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steve-b said:
And I was showing you from Jesus own words, the necessity of receiving the Eucharist
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but you didn’t say, just the Eucharist or just Baptism, or just Confirmation you said all.

You said if a person does not participate in ALL the sacraments they CAN NOT receive salvation. ALL… you said ALL… as in ALL 7 sacraments… the 7 listed in the Catholic church.

You said you either participate in ALL the sacraments or you do NOT get salvation… so I asked if I don’t participate in ALL 7 sacraments I can not be saved?

Then you replied the importance of 1 sacrament, the Eucharist… which I never protested. I never protested the importance of the sacraments. I was just questioning the words ALL or no salvation. I was wondering if you believed that if I do not participate in all the sacrament I can not receive salvation… is that’s what the Catholic church teaches?
 
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annad347 said:
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steve-b:
And I was showing you from Jesus own words, the necessity of receiving the Eucharist
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but you didn’t say, just the Eucharist or just Baptism, or just Confirmation you said all.
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Allow me to ask,

Which of the 7 sacraments instituted by Jesus, can be dispensed with? Aren’t they ALL necessary according to Jesus?

Example

Let’s take the sacrament of reconciliation. Isn’t prayer all that is necessary for forgiveness of all sin?

Why then did John make a distinction between mortal sin and sin that is not mortal for forgiveness? HERE

One has to ask, How does one get rid of sin that is mortal?

Jesus ordained His apostles and gave them the authority and power to forgive ALL sin which would include mortal sin as well HERE .

Since The apostles aren’t mind readers, How would the apostles know what sins to forgive or retain if one doesn’t confess their sins to the apostle,… and looking forward, to those priests and bishops the Apostles ordain to have the authority and power to also forgive all sin?
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annad347:
You said if a person does not participate in ALL the sacraments they CAN NOT receive salvation. ALL… you said ALL… as in ALL 7 sacraments… the 7 listed in the Catholic church.
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If one is "IN" the Catholic Church, and is faithful till the end, they participate in, and receive the benefits from being in the one true Church Jesus established on Peter and those in perfect union with Peter. Ergo they have all the sacraments Jesus established for salvation.

One might ask, What is the purpose of the sacraments?

For space,

click on each internal link HERE
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annad347:
Then you replied the importance of 1 sacrament, the Eucharist… which I never protested. I never protested the importance of the sacraments. I was just questioning the words ALL or no salvation. is that’s what the Catholic church teaches?
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this is from Vat II, paragraph 14 of Lumen Gentium

14…Whosoever, therefore, knowing that the Catholic Church was made necessary by Christ, would refuse to enter or to remain in it, could not be saved.

So

Looking at that statement.

Knowledge is important, and particularly THAT knowledge spoken of… correct? Scripture is clear on the subject of knowledge and it’s importance. So…If one doesn’t have that knowledge spoken of, then, it’s possible for their ignorance to be innocent, therefore they might be exempt from that consequence of no salvation. I say “might” because ignorance isn’t always innocent.

Example:
HERE
 
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Glennon_P said:
There is a “Universal Catholic Church” in the UK. It’s an offshoot of the Old Catholics, who broke with the Roman Catholic Church following Vatican I. As near as I can tell, its orders are not valid. No real connection with the Roman Catholic Church or any of the Eastern Catholic Churches in Communion with Rome.
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This is a good example of how confusion has been intentionally sewn in our age (and by “age” I mean “the times”)
 
annad347 said:
believes a person can not receive salvation if they do not participate in all the sacraments…
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It’s impossible to receive all 7 sacraments because a person cannot have both holy orders and marriage
 
FossilResin said:
Like an Anglican converting? I guess
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Yes, if you’re referring to the Latin rite. Depending on Pope Francis’ response to the synod that may be further expanded.

Married priests is the norm in the Eastern rites.
 
It is possible to receive both. I know a man who was married and after his wife died, he became a priest. Rare, but it can happen.
 
FossilResin said:
It’s impossible to receive all 7 sacraments because a person cannot have both holy orders and marriage
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Married clergy is the norm in the East. Of course a married man can be ordained a priest, not the other way around.

ZP
 
Glennon_P said:
It is possible to receive both. I know a man who was married and after his wife died, he became a priest. Rare, but it can happen.
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I think the point is that we’re not bound to receive all the sacraments. For some, it is impossible. Women can not receive Holy Orders. Most of us will never receive Annointing of the sick.
 
@steve-b, if I am not married does that mean I can not receive salvation?
 
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