Universal catholic church and The Catholic church

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@steve-b
I’m thinking that you misunderstood the first part of @Crusader13’s post, as I didn’t understand it the way you did. Maybe?
 
annad347 said:
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Justin_Mary:
As Catholics we believe a particular way about the Eucharist. A way protestant denominations do not.

Paul says it is sharing of that one bread that makes us One Body.
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But isnt a person’s belief an individual thing?

Do you believe the Eucharist is the actual body and blood of Christ just because the priest says it is or do you believe it cause you have faith God is present at that very moment turning ordinary wine into blood, ordinary bread to the body of Christ

I believe no matter what church you go to the Eucharist will be what God needs it to be in you’re life because of you’re faith in God… maybe I’m wrong but I trust God.

That’s where Paul’s words come into play and makes us one with The Body our faith… you cant tell me that just because a person’s Catholic their belief and faith is automatically genuine, that some arent just going through the motions… if that’s the case then why would Gid be stronger in one church over another… isnt He every where
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@annad347
Anna, we believe what Christ told the apostles. Yes, it’s been handed down over the centuries though ordination of our priests, beginning with the Apostle Peter, but the words that strike our minds and hearts and souls are straight from Christ: HIS Word. Everything about the Mass has to do with CHRIST’S Words, HIS teachings. Christ established ONE Church; He used the singular word, “Church,” not the plural, “Churches.”
 
So you believe God is only present in Catholic churches? He can NOT be present any where else?

When He said, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” (Matthew 18:20), He meant only if you’re Catholic?

He couldnt have possible meant, My children are calling for Me. My children are praying to Me. My children are gathered for Me. My children love Me. My children are filled with the Spirit and are doing My will. This is good.
 
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annad347 said:
So you believe God is only present in Catholic churches? He can NOT be present any where else?
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Of course He is everywhere. But He is in the Catholic Church in a particular way & it is that truth Paul speaks about when he speaks of One Loaf, One Body.

It is that truth that Unites that body, that Church.

There are some absolutely wonderful people belonging to some wonderful traditions. & God loves every one of them. He hears their prayers, He answers their prayers.

& if all you’re worried about is what God can do for you, by all means follow your heart to whatever tradition serves you best.

But if you are at all concerned about what He wants, come home. Follow Christ. Be obedient to Mother Church. Surrender yourself to her womb & be born in the Spirit of the Son.
 
As a non Catholic my answer is
  1. universal Curch the body composed by those who obey the comments of God and believe in the testimony of Jesus .
  2. roman Catholic Curch
An institution later a religious political state (similar to the Islamic rashidun and uymaed caliphate in some regards ) that began to form about the late 2nd to early third century and claims to be the one true curch
 
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Justin_Mary said:
But if you are at all concerned about what He wants, come home. Follow Christ. Be obedient to Mother Church. Surrender yourself to her womb & be born in the Spirit of the Son.
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I can do that outside of the Catholic church, by placing my trust in God. I can be obedient to God, follow His will and be born in the Spirit of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirt. When I do that I will be part of Gods church, one with Jesus and one with God… right?
 
annad347 said:
I can do that outside of the Catholic church, by placing my trust in God. I can be obedient to God, follow His will and be born in the Spirit of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirt. When I do that I will be part of Gods church, one with Jesus and one with God… right?
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I don’t think so, which is why I’m Catholic. Others think so & that’s why they aren’t Catholic.

Jesus said, “You are the rock I will build my Church on.” To a man. Simon-Peter.

He said, “I have prayed for you Peter, that you will strengthen your brothers.”

He said, “This is my body… do this in remembrance of me.”

He said, “This is the chalice of the new covenant… do this in memory of me.”

I don’t see how you can trust Him if you aren’t in communion with Peter, eat from the loaf that he eats from or share the cup that he shares. God tells Peter to do all this but we find a way around, to do it without Peter, how is that trust in God. How is that obedience to Christ?

Again, whether you are Catholic or not, God loves you & will bless you & protect you. But He wants you to be with Him, forever. In heaven. & the only way to get to heaven is to die to yourself & all selfishness.

Jesus taught the Apostles what that meant, what it means to follow Him. & that teaching has been passed down through the tradition of the Church. It’s not easy. It doesn’t always “make sense.”
And I consecrate myself for them, so that they also may be consecrated in truth. “I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.m And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me. Father, they are your gift to me.
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“I can do that outside of the Catholic church, by placing my trust in God. I can be obedient to God, follow His will and be born in the Spirit of The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirt. When I do that I will be part of Gods church, one with Jesus and one with God… right?”

i belive you can i have always said this , being part of an institution doesent make one more or less chirstnian then another person

if one follows the comandments of god , belives in jesus , is baptized in the name of the father the son and of the holy spirit , and is born again , and does the will of the father.

than he is more christian than any luke warm catholic. and vice versa.
 
Justin_Mary said:
I don’t see how you can trust Him if you aren’t in communion with Peter, eat from the loaf that he eats from or share the cup that he shares. God tells Peter to do all this but we find a way around, to do it without Peter, how is that trust in God. How is that obedience to Christ?
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so I my trust in God is only true if He’s leading me to Peter? I’m only being obedient to God if I’m doing what Peter says?

I swear on my life I’m not being sarcastic because I know it reads like I am but I just want to make sure I’m understanding you.

Trust in God is only true if it leads you to be in communion with Peter… and those who Peter leaves in charge from generation to generation… correct.
Justin_Mary said:
And I consecrate myself for them, so that they also may be consecrated in truth. “I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word, so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.m And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one, I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me. Father, they are your gift to me.
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So when Jesus spoke these word Catholic believe He was speaking only about the 12 Apostles, that only the 12 Apostles were a gift given to Him?
historyfan81 said:
if one follows the comandments of god , belives in jesus , is baptized in the name of the father the son and of the holy spirit , and is born again , and does the will of the father.

than he is more christian than any luke warm catholic. and vice versa.
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That was my understanding. God being the head of your church was the key to doing God’s will. Not every church has that, which is why not every church is part of God’s church.
 
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annad347 said:
Trust in God is only true if it leads you to be in communion with Peter… and those who Peter leaves in charge from generation to generation… correct.
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The Church is built on Peter. We eat from the same table, the same loaf. Like St Paul says, it is the sharing of that loaf that makes us one Body.
annad347 said:
So when Jesus spoke these word Catholic believe He was speaking only about the 12 Apostles, that only the 12 Apostles were a gift given to Him?
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I believe when Jesus spoke these words he was speaking about His Church, His Church is the gift the Father has given Him as His bride. The Church He built on Peter, that can be traced through Bishops & Popes from then till now.
annad347 said:
That was my understanding. God being the head of your church was the key to doing God’s will. Not every church has that, which is why not every church is part of God’s church.
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Ok. One day maybe I’ll come around to your teaching. But for now, I’ll stick to the teaching of St Peter, St Paul, St John, St James, etc… we’ll look to Peter to avoid error.
 
i dont belive any earthly instituition is the church much less a goverment
 
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Justin_Mary said:
The Church is built on Peter. We eat from the same table, the same loaf. Like St Paul says, it is the sharing of that loaf that makes us one Body.
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you didn’t answer the question… is my trust in God only true if it leads me to Peter?
 
the catholic position is jesus gave peter the keys of the church if you dont follow the church that chirst founded and gave authority to peter and his succesors you are an in imperfect union if you are not with the church jesus established
 
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annad347 said:
you didn’t answer the question… is my trust in God only true if it leads me to Peter?
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I believe if you’re following Jesus, He will lead you to the Church. If you are following the Church she will lead you to Jesus.

If you are following something that is not the Church built on Peter, I don’t know what it is that you are following. If you trust in that which does not lead you to the Church, I do not know what it is you have put your trust in.

I believe if you truly put your trust in God, He will lead you to the Church He built on Peter.
 
“annad347 said:
steve-b said:
IN the Catholic Church (participating in all the sacraments) is necessary for salvation. One can’t do that outside the Catholic Church
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annad347:
But isnt that the big question of this thread… understanding the difference between a catholic church and a Catholic church?
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To be Catholic, one needs to be in the Church started by Jesus , namely, be in complete union with what Jesus also established, union with Peter. Ergo, one who is in complete union with the pope, who is successor to St Peter, and follow all the doctrines of the Catholic Church.
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annad347:
Not everyone can participate in all the sacraments, so does that mean if you can’t participate in all of them you can’t recieve salvation? Of course not cause particpating in the scraments isnt what gives you salvation. You can recieve salvation without participating in all of them
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To your point.

Re: the Eucharist

please open Here. This is a warning. If one doesn’t do what Jesus said here, what happens?

According to Jesus

Does that person have eternal life in them? No
Does that person abide in Jesus? No
Does Jesus abide in that person? No
Will Jesus raise that person on the last day? No

Does Jesus say that person has salvation then? No

Note: none of this comes from me. It’s from Jesus
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