Universal catholic church and The Catholic church

[annad347]

Whats the difference between a Christian and a Catholic?

There is no difference. Catholics are Christian, and Christians are Catholic.

some people think there is a difference… meaning if you are in any church that is not Catholic you are not Christian. So if you are not Christian you are not part of the church.

which is why I asked the question… some people believe that if Jesus is the head of your church you are part of His church, the catholic, universal church… some feel if you are not in the Catholic church you aren’t fully part of His church, other feel you are not part of His church at all… I wanted to know what was the difference.

 

[CarmeliteKnight]

meaning if you are in any church that is not Catholic you are not Christian. So if you are not Christian you are not part of the church.

Well…you know…they aren’t wrong. Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus and all that. Just because an organization honors Jesus with their lips doesn’t mean they honor His decision to make the Catholic Church His only church. Jesus gave the keys to the kingdom to one person, St. Peter. He did this for a reason.

Think about it this way. How many arks did God tell Noah to build? One or 330000?

 

[annad347]

Well…you know…they aren’t wrong. Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus and all that. Just because an organization honors Jesus with their lips doesn’t mean they honor His decision to make the Catholic Church His only church. Jesus gave the keys to the kingdom to one person, St. Peter. He did this for a reason.

Yes, so then the churches who honor’s the teachings of St Peter are part of God’s church… honoring Jesus as the head of the church. I’m not saying every church does this I’m saying any church that does this.

As for Noah that was way before Jesus so I don’t think that counts… but Jesus did want to include everyone into His church, and they agreed that those who are in the church did not have to follow the rules of the Jews… so maybe He did want His church to include 333000 forms… who accepts Him as their Lord and Savior.

The Latin phrase extra Ecclesiam nulla salus means “outside the Church there is no salvation”. The 1992 Catechism of the Catholic Church explained this as" all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is His Body." This expression comes from the writings of Saint Cyprian of Carthage, a bishop of the 3rd century.

 

[CarmeliteKnight]

As for Noah that was way before Jesus so I don’t think that counts

It does count as the ark is a symbol of the Church and Christ. God only made one way of salvation back then, as He made only one way of salvation now. His church. Anything outside of that way of salvation will only lead to death, literally.

Yes, so then the churches who honor’s the teachings of St Peter are part of God’s church… honoring Jesus as the head of the church.

The problem is that they don’t. If they honored Jesus and St. Peter they would be in the Catholic Church, not outside of it leading people astray and confusing people.

 

[annad347]

The problem is that they don’t. If they honored Jesus and St. Peter they would be in the Catholic Church, not outside of it leading people astray and confusing people.

but they are…

Peter baptized 3000 people that day, shared not only the same belief but also the Holy Spirit. The monumental event that took place on Pentecost is this: The Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Holy Trinity came upon those who believed in Him, forming them into the Church: the body of Christ and the Temple of the Holy Spirit.

Just read that in the textbook I got from my RCIA class.

IMO, too many people are getting too hung up on the word catholic… with or without a capital C… that they forget the only important thing about being part of the Church is being one with the body of Christ, Jesus, The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit… again IMO.

 

[Justin_Mary]

IMO, too many people are getting too hung up on the word catholic… with or without a capital C… that they forget the only important thing about being part of the Church is being one with the body of Christ, Jesus, The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit… again IMO.

I think the point is how we define “being one” with the body of Christ.

“Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment,” (1 Cor. 1:10)

 

[annad347]

I think the point is how we define “being one” with the body of Christ.

True but one person can not define that for another person. You either have The Holy Spirit or you don’t

 

[Justin_Mary]

True but one person can not define that for another person. You either have The Holy Spirit or you don’t

I don’t know. We humans are pretty good at fooling ourselves.

As Catholics we believe if you were baptized then you have the Holy Spirit. But our hearts are numb, dead to the spirit. By practicing virtue, partaking of the sacraments, that Spirit within us is nourished & grows.

 

[annad347]

As Catholics we believe if you were baptized then you have the Holy Spirit. But our hearts are numb, dead to the spirit. By practicing virtue, partaking of the sacraments, that Spirit within us is nourished & grows.

But you’re still human…right?

Catholic arent the only ones who believe that… I’m sure everyone who is baptized in the name of The Father, The son and The Holy Spirit know they have received Christ and become one with God.

When they worship, kneel to pray, receive The Eucharist are doing it in the name of God.

When they read their bible, pray for forgiveness of their sins weather its directly to a priest or to God they are forgiven… their souls are cleansed.

Churches who believe following the teaching from the bible, are filled with the Holy Spirit to do God’s will.

I’m not saying every church, cause not every church does those thing, not every church believesJesus is the head of the church. Jesus is their Savior, but The Catholic church isn’t the only church that accepts Him…all the churches that do are part of the church. His church

 

[annad347]

From what I read it sounded like Peter’s church started when you are baptized in the name of The Father The Son and the Holy Spirit. When that happens you receive The Holy Spirit and become one with Christ, become one with God, become a member of the church.

So do Ctholic believe they are the only ones capable of doing that? That their baptism is the only one that fills you with The Holy Spirit?

 

[CarmeliteKnight]

Not everyone that says Lord Lord to Jesus will enter into the kingdom of heaven. If you are in schism (which is a sin against charity) you are outside of the Church. I pray that those people eventually come back inside of the Church, but to say that there is salvation outside of the Church would make the church irrelevant.

Why bother following God’s commandments when pastor Jimantha and her wife at the OSAS non-denominational congregation tells me I can sin as much as I want and I will always be saved? Why bother loving my neighbor when Pastor Anderson and the IFB congregation tells me we need to petition the government to kill all the LGBTQP+ people? Both congregations think they have good intentions and both call Jesus Lord. Doesn’t mean they will be allowed into the kingdom of heaven for being outside of Jesus’ Church.

 

[Justin_Mary]

But you’re still human…right?

Reminds me of a quote, don’t know who said it., “Christ became man, so that we might become divine.”

To become divine requires extraordinary grace. Grace many of us are not willing to strive for. Similar to the way we all want to be fit & healthy, but not many of us do the things that lead to being fit & healthy. We don’t eat right, don’t sleep right, don’t see a doctor regularly. Our actions don’t line up with our beliefs.

Catholic arent the only ones who believe that… I’m sure everyone who is baptized in the name of The Father, The son and The Holy Spirit know they have received Christ and become one with God.

God is the constant gardener. Grafting all onto His vine, always pruning that which does not bear fruit.

I’m not saying every church, cause not every church does those thing, not every church believesJesus is the head of the church. Jesus is their Savior, but The Catholic church isn’t the only church that accepts Him…all the churches that do are part of the church. His church

I hear what you are saying & believe there is much truth to what you say. But just like I mentioned earlier, there is a big difference in what we say & what we do.

Jesus prayed that Peter’s faith would not fail & when returned he would strengthen his brothers.

It is on Peter He built His Church. So when Peter says God hates divorce, it is Jesus who says it. & we have to look to Peter to understand what that means & live it.

When Peter says “Thou shalt not kill.” It is God speaking & we have to look to Peter to understand what that means & live accordingly. If the AntiChrist says,“He means we just need to be good to those who are good to us.” Or “That doesn’t apply if the mother’s life is in danger.” Or “Let’s take care of me first, then I’ll try to save my brother.” The Holy Spirit within us is starved, malnourished, & weakened.

There are many “bodies” out there that claim to be “The Body,” but there is only one Body of Christ, only one Eucharist.

 

[Justin_Mary]

From what I read it sounded like Peter’s church started when you are baptized in the name of The Father The Son and the Holy Spirit. When that happens you receive The Holy Spirit and become one with Christ, become one with God, become a member of the church.

So do Ctholic believe they are the only ones capable of doing that? That their baptism is the only one that fills you with The Holy Spirit?

No. The Catholic Church recognizes all baptisms done in the name of the Father, the Son, & the Holy Spirit. The Catholic Church recognizes there is a lot of truth in the many forms of Christian traditions.

But not all is true in the many forms of Christian traditions, can’t be. One tradition teaches a select few have already been predestined to attain heaven, while others believe we’re all going to heaven if you just believe you’re going to heaven.

The Catholic Church teaches that the fullness of truth has been protected by the Holy Spirit in the Magesterium of the Church. Obedience to the Catholic Church is obedience to Christ. Abiding in the teachings of the Catholic Church is abiding in Christ.

& it’s not about being perfect. We know we are not. But an honest attempt to follow Jesus, from the Incarnation to Cavalry, to the Resurrection.

 

[ArchStanton]

Judas was part of Jesus’s church?

Acts 1:20 [KJV] For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

[They select Matthias as the 12th apostle ]

Psalm 109:8 May his days be few;

MAY ANOTHER TAKE HIS OFFICE .

 

[annad347]

Acts 1:20 [KJV] For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take .

[They select Matthias as the 12th apostle ]

Psalm 109:8 May his days be few;

MAY ANOTHER TAKE HIS OFFICE

So then YES, Judas ws part of Gods church even if he did not receive The Holy Spirit and killed himself… why not just say Yes he was.

Judas was part of Gods church.

 

[Crusader13]

So do Ctholic believe they are the only ones capable of doing that? That their baptism is the only one that fills you with The Holy Spirit?

Generally speaking, baptisms done using the Trinitarian formula are accepted as valid by the Catholic Church. Meaning, that a convert who was baptized in this manner does not need to be re-baptized.

Unfortunately, many people have extended the understanding of “the church” to be the collection of all the Christian faithful. Therefore, the belief is that they are saved through their own denomination, so there is no need to become Catholic. It sounds like that might be your understanding as well, but I may be mistaken and I don’t want to assume anything on your part.

 

[steve-b]

annad347:

meaning if you are in any church that is not Catholic you are not Christian. So if you are not Christian you are not part of the church.

Well…you know…they aren’t wrong. Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus and all that. Just because an organization honors Jesus with their lips doesn’t mean they honor His decision to make the Catholic Church His only church. Jesus gave the keys to the kingdom to one person, St. Peter. He did this for a reason.

Think about it this way. How many arks did God tell Noah to build? One or 330000?

 

[Gorgias]

Acts 1:20 [KJV] mentions his bishoprick [office] and the replacement was Matthias.

I’m not quite sure how to respond to this. On one hand, I think I might want to reply “well, sure, the KJV renders the word in that way, but Catholic Bibles don’t!”. On the other hand, we could look at 1 Tim 3:1 and see that this word is translated in that context as “office of bishop” (even though the word really only started taking on that connotation some time following Pentecost).

So, to take your argument at face value, I’d have to accept the assertion that, prior to Pentecost, Peter was already speaking about the apostles as being ‘overseers’. I’m not quite sure that’s a reasonable assertion; it certainly doesn’t appear to be the case until after Pentecost and the beginnings of the evangelization of the peoples in the Church.

Acts 1:22, on the other hand, speaks to the replacement being “a witness to his resurrection”. That does sound like the context for a pre-Pentecost apostle!

Certainly, they became ‘episkopos’. At this point in the history of the narrative, though, he’s a replacement apostle.

[refer to posts 90, 93, 99, 101, 103, and 107]

Umm… you’re referring me to your own previously-made assertions?

 

[ArchStanton]

I’m not really sure what you are arguing…I was merely pointing out what is clearly stated [KJV or others]… bishoprick/office

 

[Gorgias]

I’m pointing out that only the KJV (i.e., not a Catholic translation) makes the claim that the “office” is that of “bishop” rather than “apostle”, as you’re claiming.