Universal health insurance

[soma]

No, there are many points that back up the premise that Iraq was invaded for oil.

From NBC/NJ’s Adam Aigner-Treworgy
At the conclusion of a town hall held this morning outside in Denver, McCain decided to toss in a plug for his upcoming energy policy rollout. But in the midst of decrying the dangers of Americans reliance on foreign oil, McCain seemed to suggest that this reliance caused the current struggle in Iraq.
firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/02/974014.aspx

 

[Verisimilitude]

No, there are many points that back up the premise that Iraq was invaded for oil.

From NBC/NJ’s Adam Aigner-Treworgy
At the conclusion of a town hall held this morning outside in Denver, McCain decided to toss in a plug for his upcoming energy policy rollout. But in the midst of decrying the dangers of Americans reliance on foreign oil, McCain seemed to suggest that this reliance caused the current struggle in Iraq.
firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/02/974014.aspx

I heard that on the radio that day and was astonished he said it. The news/talk show on at the time has a neo-con and a liberal as a team. Neither would touch it because both support the war.

Sorry for the diversion to the OP.

 

[summasix]

Sorry for the diversion to the OP.

Echo that.

To get this conversation back on topic, let me ask the OP to clarify a distinction. Are you referring to universal insurance or healthcare? Because it seems like the debate is centering around UHC, when technically the OP is asking about UHI.

 

[BornNsideLakeO]

So, the Canadian system is a failure eh? Care to back that claim up, other than saying ’ Canadians go to American Hospitals all the time’.

Yes, the Canadian Universal Health care system has it’s problems, it is far from perfect, but it does work and every single person in the country has equal access to tax funded health care.

To dismiss the Canadian Health Care system as a complete failure is quite simply wrong.

Lets try and refrain from making such wide sweeping claims about things that we know nothing about.

Here’s the view from the north side of Lake Ontario: On his 3RD WAITING LIST for open heart surgery, my husband’s cousin dropped dead in his teenage son’s arms in the driveway of their home. He had paid into the system all of his working years. My brother needed spinal surgery immediately following an accident on an All-Touring-Cycle. He was put on morphine (side-effect: his lost his teeth) for a year and a half & told not to fall because he could end up a parapalegic. He’s not a complainer. At the last visit to the Pain Clinic over a year ago, they simply told him their was nothing more they could do for him. When I see all the pills in his hand that they’ve prescribed it looks like someone knocked over bottles in the pharmacy. He’s in constant pain and after a particularly bad weekend with Monday no better, he said to his wife “I just can’t stand this pain in my arm.” His daughter who is a nurse came into the office otherwise he likely wouldn’t have gone to the “bother” them at the hospital. She told him he had to go to the hospital he was having a HEART ATTACK and distinguishing between his usual pain & that warning pain was blurred. She watched him have the heart attack at the hospital. He’s 47. I’ve had my own experiences in emergency: hours with crying bleeding child waitng for stitches or infant being pricked in each toe to get blood until the parent says “Give me my baby” or after hours of waiting hear the doctor’s response to something a nurse later solved; “I don’t know; I’m clued out.” Then amid the rationed health care there’s the plight of the elderly. My father-in-law was “taking up a bed” according to one doctor. Unscrupulous administration of meds remains a haunting question. My own uncle’s death at a home for the elderly is still among the investigations there.
But there is the LAND OF THE FREE, where one can be a customer of health care. In Canada if you NEED an CAT scan your best strategy is to start barking. When you get your MRI, CAT scan or Ultra Sound, be prepared to wait for the reading of the results. Lots of people cross the border to get the care they need. If you’re old & need a hip replacement, you can wait on a list or a 2nd list or since you may only have a few years left you could cross the border & get the care you need. What happens when the USA puts the government in charge of their health care? It comes out of your pay check before you get it, the price increases without your consent, if you do get sick the care is rationed, hit or miss, or hey isn’t his sister’s brother a doctor; he got that operation with out much of a wait! WAIT, THINK CAREFULLY before you decide to have the government take care of something else.
Once a charismatic polictian who put a spin on a new change in law which the People did NOT ask for: “The Government does not belong in the bedrooms of the Nation.” Now consider what is paraded in the streets of the former “Toronto the Good” & the BIG tourism draw for the city. A recent law in parliment received this response from citizens: “We were once told that the Government doesn’t belong in the bedrooms of the Nation, however, they apparently want to be in the rest of the house.”
I for one hope the FREEDOM on the south side of the Lake is not lost. Where will I go, where will my children go to receive not only health care but in other cases university education which they themselves subsidise for others in their socialist. Ah, but that is another topic.
Who ever pays the Band calls the Songs. You get what you pay for when you’re the customer.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Who ever pays the Band calls the Songs. You get what you pay for when you’re the customer.

And if we adopt a government health care system, where will we (and you) go when we’re so far back on the list we’ll die before getting treatment? Mexico?

 

[BornNsideLakeO]

I forgot to mention; the Government Health Care System comes right to your grade 7/8 child’s Elementary school to give vacinations …to prevent problems only cause by sexual intercourse which they assume involve your child in the next few years. In this case, the Elementary school is “Catholic” - again whoever pays the Band picks the Songs. The Parochial system was Catholoic. When my daughter goes to High School, there are elements of the curriculum that I find do not mesh with Catholic teaching and I’m not sure right now if I should ask that she be exempt on religious grounds. This particular issue was in my parish bulletin; so that parents might be aware of what goes on at the school. Our priest commented as well for those who don’t bother reading the bulletin.

I’m just one voice, yet what I see is wide spread & effects many more than just me.

 

[mary_bobo]

No, there are many points that back up the premise that Iraq was invaded for oil.

From NBC/NJ’s Adam Aigner-Treworgy
At the conclusion of a town hall held this morning outside in Denver, McCain decided to toss in a plug for his upcoming energy policy rollout. But in the midst of decrying the dangers of Americans reliance on foreign oil, McCain seemed to suggest that this reliance caused the current struggle in Iraq.
firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/05/02/974014.aspx

Well then when are we going to get some.

 

[mary_bobo]

Can we please get back to the subject at hand. If you want to talk about the Patriot Act, start another thread. Thanks.

 

[cynic]

for the elderly is still among the investigations there.
But there is the LAND OF THE FREE, where one can be a customer of health care. .

Says somebody who has the income to afford full coverage insurance.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Says somebody who has the income to afford full coverage insurance.

Have you considered getting a job and earning the money to cover you premium?

 

[po18guy]

I know I’m joining this late but everyone should have the same access to the same quality healthcare regardless of ability to pay. This should not be a conservative vs. liberal idea. If we deny anyone proper healthcare for whatever reason or side of the argument we are on and they die because of it then we are all to blame.

Unfortunately, you are asking for socialism or communism, and there was no equality there, either.

What we are discussing here will be enacted, if it ever occurs, as a “single-payer” health care system. Thus, you turn your health over to a massive bureaucracy in DC and wait for them to authorize treatment, if any.

We have a chance to educate ourselves about the effectiveness of such a system. Please click on the following link to see how such a system treated a blue-collar working man in Canada:

youtube.com/watch?v=X_Rf42zNl9U

Choose wisely.

 

[po18guy]

So, the Canadian system is a failure eh? Care to back that claim up, other than saying ’ Canadians go to American Hospitals all the time’.

Yes, the Canadian Universal Health care system has it’s problems, it is far from perfect, but it does work and every single person in the country has equal access to tax funded health care.

To dismiss the Canadian Health Care system as a complete failure is quite simply wrong.

Lets try and refrain from making such wide sweeping claims about things that we know nothing about.

Ever had a brain tumor? Might want to watch this:
youtube.com/watch?v=X_Rf42zNl9U

 

[soma]

As Christians we pray that everyone will be healthy and get the help they need. Universal health insurance will give people the tools they need to be healthy. The Christians who pray that taxes will be reduced need to check their heart. Selfish self-interest is not a spiritual practice to be a better better person or Christian.

 

[jman507]

As Christians we pray that everyone will be healthy and get the help they need. Universal health insurance will give people the tools they need to be healthy. The Christians who pray that taxes will be reduced need to check their heart. Selfish self-interest is not a spiritual practice to be a better better person or Christian.

I think part of the problem is, not everyone thinks that reducing taxes is a selfish self-interest enterprise. I think it would be rather presumptuous to think that people only have selfish intentions.

 

[Caesar517]

As Christians we pray that everyone will be healthy and get the help they need. Universal health insurance will give people the tools they need to be healthy. The Christians who pray that taxes will be reduced need to check their heart. Selfish self-interest is not a spiritual practice to be a better better person or Christian.

The heart of the issure is the role of government, not the amount of taxes.

 

[soma]

We are the government so we can change it and are responsible for it. I don’t mind paying taxes so everyone can get health care. I don’t think people with three cars, two houses and money in the bank need tax cuts.

 

[Oscarthecat]

As Christians we pray that everyone will be healthy and get the help they need. Universal health insurance will give people the tools they need to be healthy. The Christians who pray that taxes will be reduced need to check their heart. Selfish self-interest is not a spiritual practice to be a better better person or Christian.

Wow, what’s the view like way up on that high horse?

What you are saying sounds nice, but for some reason you have decided that universal healthcare is THE way for people to be healthy, and that anyone opposed to it must be motivated by hatred and selfishness.

Based on that, you must have decided not to read any of the posts thus far, and instead jumped right to the blanket accusation that anyone opposed to universal healthcare is self-interested and selfish, concerned only for their own tax dollars, and couldn’t care less about the sick or the poor.

With that in mind,

1. Opposition to UHC is not about being selfish, it is about believing that, as Christians, we are better able to address the needs of the sick and the poor than a secular government body.
2. Most everyone on both sides of this discussion thus far has agreed that we, as Christians, should be concerned for the sick and the poor.
3. Consequently, the discussion has focused on whether Universal Health Care (UHC) is the best way to achieve this goal.

4, Contrary to your uncharitable comments, those of us opposed to UHC actually believe that UHC is, at best, unable to provide good care to those in need, and at worst, actually harmful to those subjected to it.

 

[Oscarthecat]

We are the government so we can change it and are responsible for it. I don’t mind paying taxes so everyone can get health care. I don’t think people with three cars, two houses and money in the bank need tax cuts.

You really need to go back through and read about 200 posts ago where this exact same discussion took place.

Basically, it comes down to whether you, or anyone, has the right to forcibly take money from one person who you don’t think deserves it, and give it to another person who you think is more deserving of that money.

Another consideration is whether the govenrment is better able to decide what to do with your money than you are.

Many of us believe that the government is ill equipped to provide healthcare to the masses, and are opposed to being forced to give money to the government for that purpose.

In fact, I believe that it is immoral to relinquish one’s responsibility to help the poor by handing one’s money over to a government that has demonstrated repeatedly that it is inefficient and ineffective in helping the sick and the poor.

 

[Oscarthecat]

We are the government so we can change it and are responsible for it. I don’t mind paying taxes so everyone can get health care. I don’t think people with three cars, two houses and money in the bank need tax cuts.

and furthermore, “we” are only the government if “we” are fortunate enough to be in agreement with 51% of the voting public.

If we are of the 49% who don’t agree with the majority, then we are not the government, we are just the governed.

 

[cynic]

Have you considered getting a job and earning the money to cover you premium?

I have a job, and we don’t need insurance here, although it’s something I may consider as I get older.

There are plenty of people in the U.S with jobs who cannot afford full coverage, and there are many complaints about that here.