Universal Life Church??

[losh14]

It’s lamentable that we’ve gotten into calling another religious organization a ‘joke’. We should return to the thread’s focus.

The Roman Catholic Church considers any Catholic who is ordained or otherwise invested with clerical duties in another religious organization (church or otherwise) to be a schismatic and I believe is subject to automatic excommunication. That includes the Universal Life Church (ULC, if I may) as well as all non-Catholic branches of Christianity. That is not, by any stretch, making light of the doctrine of any other church, but rather a logical conclusion of the requirement that Catholics must adhere to Catholic doctrine and preach Catholic doctrine exclusively.

A similar rule is in place for most other Christian denominations. This is not the rule for the ULC, which, as I understand it, allows a tremendous leeway in personal interpretation and focus such that one may be a member of any religious organization and remain a full member of the ULC.

So while it is correct from a Catholic perspective to call to question a Catholic who seeks ordination in the ULC, it is not correct to ‘bash’ the ULC. Where we disagree with doctrine of any other religious organization we should do so respectfully as witnesses to Christ and testifiers to Truth.

We should doubly remember that, these boards being supported by a Catholic lay apostolate, all non-Catholics here are guests and should be accorded with such respect as they accord us, and perhaps greater respect for venturing into territory that is outside their normal comfort zone.

 

[losh14]

if a person gets married by an “ordained minister” by the ULC does it hold any legal weight? i went to my cousin’s wedding and it was a joke. they put their hands on vougue magazine and car and driver magazine when swearing their vows. it was just all too weird…no wonder she is my estranged cousin.

All marriages performed by State-recognized clergy are considered legal and binding by the State in which they are performed. What one does to celebrate and recognize the start of one’s married life is up to him or her - however bizarre or ludicrous the traditions may seem to us.

At our wedding (performed in the Latin Rite) we used a few small traditions of our own. I had candles lit for loved ones who had passed away but remained in our memories, and some fresh plants for those who were alive but unable to make it. It was our way of representing their presence in our hearts and their meaning to us. Among groomsmen, I had an evangelical, an Orthodox, a Presbyterian and a Jew. The evangelical had an issue with the candles and flowers (and statues and stained glass and everything else), the Presbyterian didn’t like the idea of bowing before the altar or genuflecting (though he did it out of respect for the day and for me, and after I explained I bow before the place of God’s presence in the Eucharist), and the Jew thought the whole thing was pretty darn cool. Another evangelical friend objected to the first reading (out of Tobit). So I suppose my wedding seemed strange to some of our friends, but it was nonetheless binding and marked the beginning of our lives together.

 

[losh14]

It’s a great thing to be able to be true to your religion I’ll let you be true to your’s and I ask you to let me be true to mine. Stop Bashing the Universal Life Church:thumbsup:

You raise a really good point, FatherGeorge. There are some who get married in a church because relatives want them to, or they want to be married someplace beautiful. They may not agree with the vows or they may not be as serious as the church would like, and have no intention of continuing actively in the church after matrimony.

I would rather that people such as these get married under the vows and ordinances that they believe in. A friend of mine converted from Judaism to Catholicism. Before her wedding, her father - who practiced reformed Judaism - asked her if she was really serious about this. He was concerned after reading the Catholic vows and teachings and how strenuously they were enforced. After a conversation with her and her fianceé, he was impressed with their committment to each other to take on such a charge.

Not everyone is ready to do that. If you’re not committed to Catholic beliefs, why marry in a Catholic Church and be entrusted with adhering to Catholic vows? Why pledge, before God and family alike, to take on responsibilities you do not intend to uphold?

You should be true to your beliefs. I can admonish people to convert to Christ through the Catholic Church, I can admonish them to go deeper in Him, to seek to strengthen their faith through the Church, but failing that I would rather they live what they believe.

 

[Norseman82]

Does anyone remember the Sanford and Son episode where Fred gets ordained through one of these mail-order outfits?

 

[phadenot]

Just to set the record straight, ULC is an actually Federally recognized church. The ordained ministers are legally allowed to officiate over services and other duties of their faiths. While it is true that it would cause serious repercussions among the Catholic Church to have a wedding performed by said Minister, it doesn’t make it any less legal. These types of weddings can come in handy when dealing with inter-faith marriages. As for the person that said get a judge, rent-a-priest, notary public, etc. due to that would be more respectable, I would have to laugh. Those people listed have not met any more requirements to perform weddings than a ULC Minister. In any case they wouldn’t be any more legit for a Catholic, due to the fact that it was ordained by the Church. People have tried to claim that ULC is a scam for quite some time, but the fact that it has been around nearly 50 years now proves that it is at least in good standing with the Government. Their clergy can officiate in all 50 states and many countries provided they fill out and provide the proper paperwork…exactly what anyone else trying to perform a legal union would have to do. Also, the ULC’s monetary gain from items sold on site is no more different than someone sending off for a bottle of holy water, or a prayer cloth, or whatever else a Priest, Pastor, Reverend is selling on T.V. They are all minor means for a church to make money to pay for daily operations. It only is frowned upon when those that receive the funds spend them lavishly on million dollar mansions and extravagant holy style theme parks that launder the money out into Swiss and Cayman bank accounts. Sorry that I have gone on so long, but I felt it was necessary for someone with an open minded opinion set some kind of factual info on this subject. what it all comes down to in the end is if you are Catholic and try to bend the rules to get married you will receive problems from the Church in the long run! Bright Blessings )0(

 

[Moobesh]

Hello everyone.
My name is Ben, I’m a father of 2 beautiful young boys and a proud partner to my soon to be wife. I christened in 1987 at St Mary’s church of England church in Manchester, north west England and recently came across the Universal Life Church (and also one of its break away organisations the Universal Life Church Monastery). I have never been completely comfortable with the restrictions of religion as a whole however I have always had a calling to something. I have looked into the historical and biblical aspects of Jesus and God and have formed opinions of my own Opinions that allow me to discover something that works for me. I have studied principles, aspects and ideas of many things and regularly meditate, perform T’ai Chi styles and many other things, which I find aligns my physical being with my inner being or soul and takes me to an extremely spiritual place. Through these actions I have grown to love myself and everyone and everything and have discovered a universal law called the law of attraction. I have experienced things whilst in a meditative state that I have no explanation for and have arrived at a place where explanation isn’t necessary. This is my faith and belief. The definition of a religion as per www.dictionary.com and the Oxford dictionary (an official dictionary in the UK) is: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs… A religion doesn’t need a church nor does it need laws to my mind. I feel that I should live my life with love and honesty for myself and choose to live as I wish as long as I do not break the laws of the community I choose to live or infringe on the rights of others. I believe that this is the word Jesus, God, Jehovah, Theo, Allah, Chi, Life Force, the Force (or however you describe our creator) Is presenting to us. I feel it is our choice to follow this or not to. I don’t believe it makes you right nor does it make you wrong. Scripture and writings are open for interpretation and can be tailored to fit the individual.

I have been brought up to respect others regardless of their views, origins and even to an extent their actions. It is not for me to judge another no matter how easy or difficult that may be. I believe although I have been taught these values. I already have them, and have had them since I began as do we all they are inherent in my view and it is society/communal climate that hinder or change this. I feel that although we are physical here and now we are also non-physical and a believe this non-physical us is everlasting.

I upon discovery of the Universal life church I became ordained. I had an uncomfortable feeling though I needed to find more information about this. I looked about through all sorts of information and came across a delicious notion. It is written in the King James 5th bible John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. I believe this again is a choice given to us and that is my interpretation of the words and is my truth for I create my own truth. It is my view that we all have choices of everything we experience and we create our truths regardless weather me do it by default or through deliberate creation or weather it be good or bad. I am a student of the teachings of Abraham. Abraham are a collection of non physical beings and I feel that their teachings show each person their paths of choice and how a person can align their two beings no more and no less. It is then for the individual to choose.

It is my passionate belief that no individual or group can or should attempt to tell another how they should go about life provided they do not infringe on another.

This post has helped me in understanding my beliefs a little more and I hope that I have explained my views clearly and freely. If anyone wishes to discuss this privately or would like to speak more about other things my email is rev.brierley@yahoo.co.uk

Peace be upon you (Salam Aleikum) Namaste (I bow to the divinity within you.)

 

[Zooey]

Yeah, they really need more guards outside the funny farm.

Of course, in the interests of full disclosure, I have to tell you that my cat has been a ULC “minister” since she was 5 years old.
No weddings so far; I think its because the ‘Reverend’ Miss Lily has a biting problem…

 

[Palaeologos]

If [the laying on of hands] that’s the only requirement, then there are alot of choir boys out their who have been ordained. Am I right?

No.

 

[phadenot]

Yeah, they really need more guards outside the funny farm
Of course, in the interests of full disclosure, I have to tell you that my cat has been a ULC “minister” since she was 5 years old.
No weddings so far; I think its because the ‘Reverend’ Miss Lily has a biting problem…

:egyptian: I find it very disturbing that you would sit here and blatantly disrespect a church just because you do not agree with it. ULC does not claim to be a catholic church, nor does it claim any one denomination. To sit here and say you had your cat registered as a minister there is pretty much committing a sin on purpose. If you don’t know what I am referring to then let me enlighten you. On the ULC web site and forms for ministerial license, it clearly states that anyone that abuses this and does it as a joke…i.e. trying to register a pet is in serious violation of protocol. So by doing this and signing it you are a liar. You signed up knowing that it was fake, thinking it would be funny, but smearing an religious institution. You may not agree with it, but it still doesn’t make it a joke. To me that would be like an atheist purposely going through the motions to be ordained and then after the fact going out in public and saying oh look at those quack pot Catholics, they couldn’t even tell that I was scamming them all…muahaha. I find this to be one of the biggest problems with most organized religions. If someone is not of the same train of thought as their group, then that individual is wrong and not worth a grain of salt. Until people can start accepting each others differences and at least tolerate others opinions and faiths, the world will always be at war with each other. I do not feel as though a God of any religion would seriously want his children to kill each other in the name of right or wrong. )0( Love&Light Namaste

 

[kenofken]

Lest Catholics poke too much vicious fun at the idea of mail-order ordinations, they would do well to remember their own history. Many bishops and even popes bought their titles over the centuries. Even today, the church is aware that a certain proportion of men becoming priests, especially in the Third World, do so less out of true calling than because it affords them a living and a degree of professional respect.

 

[Shawn_Ravenfire]

I’m no expert, but my impression of the ULC is that it’s basically a means for people to perform legal weddings. Of course, marriage itself is a strange concept. Who has the power to perform a wedding? A priest, a minister, a rabbi, a politician, an Indian chief, and a sea captain. (It sounds like the beginning to a joke.) But except for filling out a different income tax form, what’s the practical difference between a couple that is living together, and a couple that is legally married in a non-religious setting? I guess it’s a way of saying, “I love you so much, that I don’t us to break up without a lawyer.” Every election, the politicians argue back and forth over whether gay couples should be legally married, or just have equivilant rights and benefits for a civil union, but not be recognized as a “married” couple in the eyes of the nearest public notory. (Funny, that this debate only becomes important during election years.) The point I’m making is that marriage makes sense if you are part of a religion that demands it. Otherwise, it basically serves no purpose. (If you don’t believe me, look at Gene Simmons and Shannon Tate, and try to tell me they’re any different from “married” couples.)

But, for whatever reason, there are still couples who want to get married in a non-religous setting. (I guess they want their union sanctified on their tax returns. They think the IRS is God, and so does the IRS.) Well, that’s where the Justice of the Peace comes in. Imagine that, a guy who’s job it is to perform a religious function in a deliberately non-religious manner. But suppose the JOP isn’t available, or the couple just wants to have a “fun” wedding in their backyard. Then it’s ULC to the rescue, by providing a means for ANYONE to perform the ceremony, without having to go through the training to become a Catholic priest… or a sea captain.

The ULC can’t perform a marriage that is recognized within the Catholic Church, because ULC is not a Catholic organization. But it CAN perform a marriage that is recognized by the Government. Is ULC a real religion? Yes. Why? Because it’s recognized as one by the Government. I think this goes to show just how much weight we put on what the Government thinks. If you get married in a Catholic church, and then later get divorced (but don’t get an annullment), then you’re still married in the eyes of the Church. But ask the ex-couple, and they’ll say they’re not. On the other hand, if a couple gets married in a civil ceremony, and then separates (without a divorce), they’re still married in the eyes of the law, and ask the ex-couple, and they’ll say yes, technically, they’re still married. Man, we care a lot about what the Government thinks! (Heck, remember a few years back, when some state tried to pass a law changing the value of pi to exactly three?)

But silly as it is, the ULC provides a shortcut for legal status for ministers. In fact, one of the largest Wiccan denominations in the U.S. – Frost Wicca – was originally ordained by the ULC, and NOT through the usual training process of the original Wiccan covens. I’m sure this pissed off a few Gardenarians, but with the growing popularity of non-traditional Wicca, it’s actually practical. In fact, a lot of liberal covens now use the ULC to give them the authority to perform legal marriages, because otherwise their traditional handfasting ceremonies might not be recognized by Uncle Sam.

But the point is that the ULC can’t make you a minister of an existing non-ULC religious organization, such as the Catholic Church. (For twelve bucks, you can sign yourself up as the Pope… but your papal dominion and infallibility probably only extents as far as your own living room.)

 

[Leland57]

It’s a scam, plain and simple. Just ask Rev. Fuzzy Walstead. Who is Rev. Fuzzy Walstead, you may ask? There is a local scamologist, Detective Bruce Walstead (I think he is with the Franklin Park, IL police department). Some time ago he got his dog Fuzzy ordained a minister from one of these mail-order ordination outfits.

Detective Walstead could also submit a fraudulent application for a social security card for his dog. However, the federal government would not be as forgiving if they uncovered his fraud as would be the Universal Life Church.

The Universal Life Church will ordain all who ask, because of their sincerely held belief, based on John 15:16 KJV, that we are all ordained already, from the beginning.

Now you can say you don’t like their perspective on religion. But you can’t say they are not a religion. Unless you live in a theocracy such as Saudi Arabia. But in the USA, they are as entitled to their religion as we are to ours. That’s what the First Amendment and subsequent case law clearly state.

 

[Leland57]

For twelve bucks, you can sign yourself up as the Pope… but your papal dominion and infallibility probably only extents as far as your own living room.

Actually, the ULC is quite respectful of other religions and has always refused to grant the title of Pope to anyone for this reason.

 

[Holly3278]

I am not sure but I am thinking that the “Universal Life Church” is nothing more than one of those “be ordained online” scams. Of course, you can supposedly become legally “ordained” through this “church” but I call it a scam because it is one of those types of organizations which offer “ordination” without any previous religious education whatsoever. Even an Atheist can become “ordained”! Here is the Wikipedia article for them:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Life_Church

They seem to be very much a Universalist organization (hence the name “Universal Life Church” and as all Catholics who know their faith know, Universalism is a heresy.

Personally, I’d stay well away from this “church”.

 

[Holly3278]

:egyptian: I find it very disturbing that you would sit here and blatantly disrespect a church just because you do not agree with it. ULC does not claim to be a catholic church, nor does it claim any one denomination. To sit here and say you had your cat registered as a minister there is pretty much committing a sin on purpose. If you don’t know what I am referring to then let me enlighten you. On the ULC web site and forms for ministerial license, it clearly states that anyone that abuses this and does it as a joke…i.e. trying to register a pet is in serious violation of protocol. So by doing this and signing it you are a liar. You signed up knowing that it was fake, thinking it would be funny, but smearing an religious institution. You may not agree with it, but it still doesn’t make it a joke. To me that would be like an atheist purposely going through the motions to be ordained and then after the fact going out in public and saying oh look at those quack pot Catholics, they couldn’t even tell that I was scamming them all…muahaha. I find this to be one of the biggest problems with most organized religions. If someone is not of the same train of thought as their group, then that individual is wrong and not worth a grain of salt. Until people can start accepting each others differences and at least tolerate others opinions and faiths, the world will always be at war with each other. I do not feel as though a God of any religion would seriously want his children to kill each other in the name of right or wrong. )0( Love&Light Namaste

No offense but what is the point of belonging to a religion if members of that religion are not “of the same train of thought”?

 

[Holly3278]

Actually, the ULC is quite respectful of other religions and has always refused to grant the title of Pope to anyone for this reason.

You obviously have not looked at their site. From their site:

The ULC grants honorary religious titles upon request. The ULC has no hierarchical structure, however titles of position and authority are available for the independent new churches and ministries. You will receive a certificate with this title awarded to you by the church.

Currently available titles:

Abbe, Reverend of Rock 'n Roll, Abbess, Abbot, Ananda, Angel, Apostle of Humility, Apostolic Scribe, Arch Deacon, Arch Priest, Archbishop, Arch cardinal, Ascetic Gnostic, Bible Historian, Bishop, Brahman, Brother, Canon, Cantor, Cardinal, Channel, Chaplain, Colonel, Cure, Deacon, Dervish, Directress, Disciple, Druid, Elder, Faith Healer, Evangelist, Emissary, Father, Field Missionary, Flying Missionary, Free Thinker, Friar, Goddess, Guru, Hadji, Healing Minister, High Priest, High Priestess, Imam, Lama, Lay Sister, Magus, Martyr, Messenger, Metropolitan, Minister of Music, Minister of Peace, Missionary, Missionary Doctor, Missionary Healer, Missionary of Music, Missionary Priest, Monk, Monsignor, Most Reverend, Mystical Philosopher, Orthodox Monk, Parochial Educator, Pastor General, Patriarch, Peace Counselor, Preacher, Preceptor, Priest, Priestess, Prophet, Rector, Rabbi, Religious Preacher, Revelator, Reverend, Reverend Father, Reverend Mother, Right Reverend, Saintly Healer, Scribe, Seer, Shaman, Soul Therapist, Sister, Spiritual Counselor, Spiritual Warrior, Starets, Swami, Teller, Thanatologist, The Very Esteemed, Universal Rabbi, Universal Religious Philosopher, Vicar, Universal Philosopher of Absolute Reality, Wizard, Gothi, Gythia, Psychic Healer, Minister of Rock 'n Roll, Rock 'n Roll Missionary, Rock Doctor (R.D), Rock 'n Roll Minister, Child of the Universe, Prince, Princess, Spiritual Healer, Saint, Pope

Emphasis in bold and underline mine.

Don’t believe me? It’s right there on their site:

I will not link to their site because I do not want to link to such a disgusting site but if you do the research, it is right there!