Unmarried Catholic school teacher, fired after pregnancy, will pursue legal action [CC]

[ChemicalBean]

I read about this earlier, and I’m actually very angry the more I see.

This woman made the courageous and generous choice that we preach about - accepting new life. Kids in middle school already know how babies happen, so in any case, the issue raises questions and “teachable moments”. Her actions could have provided a living example of the Gospel of Life to so many teenagers had she remained a teacher. The school district could have issued a private reprimand, and if any family was scandalized by it, hold a forum to explain why it is necessary, life-sustaining response to continue her full employment and benefits for the sake of her new family. In 2 years or less, it is a non-issue.

Instead, this school threw her to the curb to publicly shame her and make itself look righteous. The church forfeited an opportunity to witness to redemption.

 

[THP]

What it comes down to is that from the article, we don’t have the facts to decide.

If a single teacher made a mistake, found out she was pregnant, went to the principal and honestly admitted the mistake, expressed horror at the terrible example set for students and earnestly wanted to find a way to make it right, I’d be pretty angry with a principal who simply tossed her out on her ear (and a Scarlet Letter attached). I don’t see Jesus doing that.

On the other hand, if the teacher in question got pregnant by accident, decided it was nobody’s business and didn’t say anything until people noticed the bump and then responded by telling the principal to ‘shove off and mind your own business’ then I’d fully support the school in firing her.

To me scandal is less about the fact that people commit sin and more about the fact that people sin and aren’t repentant about it (or even acknowledging it as sin!). I don’t see that those facts are in evidence here.

There’s another case in Indiana where a school fired a teacher for (publicly and proudly) using IVF to get pregnant who also got fired. She’s obstinately set in her opinion that she did nothing wrong and feels the church has no right to fire her from her catholic school teaching job. THAT case is absurd and needs prompt tossing out. Someone proud of their sin is, by definition, unfit to be a teacher in the faith (the whole point of a catholic school). Someone repentant for their sins is called a Christian!

I think this is the only proper response for this situation. Everything else is wildly speculative and cruel. Until we know for certain the specifics of the case we should err on the side of compassion and forgiveness.

It seems like most people are upset because she violated a legal contract. I’m sure that is what the Lord would be really mad about as well.

If she is repentant for her sin of fornication does not the Catholic school have a contractual obligation to live a Catholic lifestyle as well, namely treating this woman with compassion and helping those who are less fortunate rather than protecting their reputation? Talk about hardness of heart.

 

[JimG]

I think this is the only proper response for this situation. Everything else is wildly speculative and cruel. Until we know for certain the specifics of the case we should err on the side of compassion and forgiveness.

**It seems like most people are upset because she violated a legal contract. ** I’m sure that is what the Lord would be really mad about as well.

If she is repentant for her sin of fornication does not the Catholic school have a contractual obligation to live a Catholic lifestyle as well, namely treating this woman with compassion and helping those who are less fortunate rather than protecting their reputation? Talk about hardness of heart.

Violating a contract may be the legal issue, but it is not the problem. The problem is that she provides an example to her students. Whether she is repentant or unrepentant, whether she discusses the matter or not, the kids will know. The lesson they will take to heart is, “well, yeah, we know we shouldn’t have sex until marriage; but it’s not really that big of a deal. Our teacher did it, and she’s a good person.” That’s a hard message for the teacher or the school to overcome.

Yes, we do need to have compassion for the teacher. We also need to have compassion for the children. I’m glad I don’t have to make the decision. What would be the decision if a popular teacher announced he was gay and marrying his partner? Or if another teacher announced she was moving in with her boyfriend?

 

[THP]

Violating a contract may be the legal issue, but it is not the problem. The problem is that she provides an example to her students. Whether she is repentant or unrepentant, whether she discusses the matter or not, the kids will know. The lesson they will take to heart is, “well, yeah, we know we shouldn’t have sex until marriage; but it’s not really that big of a deal. Our teacher did it, and she’s a good person.” That’s a hard message for the teacher or the school to overcome.

How do you know the kids will get that message? Having a baby is a very big deal. This all depends on the age of the students she teaches but maybe its an opportunity teach the children about forgiveness and reconciliation, accepting the consequences of your decisions and actions, etc.

Yes, we do need to have compassion for the teacher. We also need to have compassion for the children. I’m glad I don’t have to make the decision. What would be the decision if a popular teacher announced he was gay and marrying his partner? Or if another teacher announced she was moving in with her boyfriend?

Again, as other’s have stated, these are different situations - the endorsement of a sinful lifestyle. In her situation we don’t know enough to comment.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Violating a contract may be the legal issue, but it is not the problem. The problem is that she provides an example to her students. Whether she is repentant or unrepentant, whether she discusses the matter or not, the kids will know. The lesson they will take to heart is, “well, yeah, we know we shouldn’t have sex until marriage; but it’s not really that big of a deal. Our teacher did it, and she’s a good person.” That’s a hard message for the teacher or the school to overcome.

Yeah, um, not so much and if they kicked her out that’d just make the school look cruel and if the school claimed it in the name of morality that’d make the kids think God is inhuman. Realistically that’s going to encourage abortion to avoid things like job loss.

Maybe if they stoned her it’d pound home the message that fornication has consequences.

Yes, we do need to have compassion for the teacher. We also need to have compassion for the children. I’m glad I don’t have to make the decision. What would be the decision if a popular teacher announced he was gay and marrying his partner? Or if another teacher announced she was moving in with her boyfriend?

The former is an intention to live in sin and the latter is an intention to very likely live in sin which both definitely qualify as unCatholic “lifestyles”. Pregnancy doesn’t require a pattern, merely a one off incident.

 

[Spanish_Donkey]

The lesson they will take to heart is, “well, yeah, we know we shouldn’t have sex until marriage; but it’s not really that big of a deal. Our teacher did it, and she’s a good person.” That’s a hard message for the teacher or the school to overcome.

They may also think: “well, yeah, we know we shouldn’t have sex until marriage; but it`s not a big deal.SAINT AUGUSTINE did it, and he’s in Heaven”. You should gather all the copies of The Confessions of Saint Augustine from school and parish libraries and organize a public burning of them. Otherwise, one day a kid might pick one and it could put wrong ideas into his head.

What about the Gospel? There’s a story about a woman caught committing adultery and Saint John apparently says that Our Lord intervened and she got away quite lightly, not even with a good trashing. Obviously this can’t have happened, it must be a mistake in the translation from Greek. Besides, Our Lord seems to have a particular dislike for a group of very devout men, the Pharisees. Don’t ask me why, they seem to be good family men, the kind that go often to church, pay their taxes and honor the contracts they sign. Well, it seems that you should get rid of the New Testament too. It may sound hard, but remember that you still keep the fundamentals: the scapulars and the plaster statues of the Sacred Heart of Jesus.

Once the town has been purged of this subversive, dangerous material, it’s time to think what to do with Miss Evenson. True, she is no longer a teacher, but her former pupils can come across her anywhere (Butte, Montana, is a smaller place than New York) and they can continue thinking that she is a good person. You might threat her so that she left the town. If you feel scruples about it (surely, a temptation from the Devil), remember: it’s the purity of your kids what is at stake. Don’t be afraid to stoop too low.

Alternatively, she might be allowed to stay **if and only if ** she agreed to wear some kind of sign on her clothes so as to distinguish her from respectable people. What about a big red F, for Fornication? The guys that arrived in the Mayflower really knew how to handle these issues, not like all those crypto-liberals who have crept into the Church.

 

[JimG]

Well, I’d be happy for all the students to read St. Augustine. It’s a little hard going for middle school students, though. I’ve always wondered about Augustine’s view of compassion somewhat. He had a paramour, and yet when he converted to Christianity he seems to have entirely abandoned her without another thought.

I can certainly agree with you. It’s not my place or the school’s place to condemn sinners. It is their responsibility to educate children. And they have the responsibility of hiring teachers who will provide a Catholic education to the students.

I’m not sure just how much leeway administrators should exercise in the hiring of teachers. I’m not going to second guess them. If I were a parent of one of the kids, I’d want the teachers to be good role models for the kids.

I’m wondering if a Catholic school would have hired Augustine before he converted!

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

Well, I’d be happy for all the students to read St. Augustine. It’s a little hard going for middle school students, though. I’ve always wondered about Augustine’s view of compassion somewhat. He had a paramour, and yet when he converted to Christianity he seems to have entirely abandoned her without another thought.

I can certainly agree with you. It’s not my place or the school’s place to condemn sinners. It is their responsibility to educate children. And they have the responsibility of hiring teachers who will provide a Catholic education to the students.

I’m not sure just how much leeway administrators should exercise in the hiring of teachers. I’m not going to second guess them. If I were a parent of one of the kids, I’d want the teachers to be good role models for the kids.

I’m wondering if a Catholic school would have hired Augustine before he converted!

Um, even devout Catholics have been known to commit mortal sins once in an eight year period.

 

[Spanish_Donkey]

. I’m not going to second guess them. If I were a parent of one of the kids, I’d want the teachers to be good role models for the kids.

If by “good role models” you mean someone who has never committed a sin the staff of each Catholic school would be reduced to two: Our Lord Jesus Christ and Our Lady the Virgin Mary (if they wanted to take the job.)

And what about the school?

From a teenager’s point of view a teacher is a teacher. He or she doesn’t represent anything else, he’s basically an individual. But the school is “THE CHURCH”. It might seem ridiculous that someone can think that Butte Catholic School is the Catholic Church, but I attended a Catholic high school and I think that I don’t misrepresent the point of view of an immature, poorly catechized teenager (I was one).

So, that’s what they see:

1. A teacher commits a sin.
2. Butte Catholic School (“the Church”) kicks her out and leaves her in a very difficult indeed situation.

So, what will they think about “the Church” (Butte Catholic School)? That it is merciless. That it is pharisaical. “I believe in the forgiveness of sins… but you, sinner, are fired. Sorry, we have to keep ourselves pure, so no sinners are allowed near us. Good luck.”

And what will they do?

• Some of them will find out (through their parish, family, books, friends or any other tool used by God’s Grace) that Butte Catholic School is not “the Church”. They are the luckiest.
• Some of them will leave the Church. That is not the worst possibility. Indeed in rejecting “the Church” they are rejecting Tertullian’s, Calvin’s or Jansenius’ church, not the Catholic Church whose head is Jesus Christ. They have razed rotten foundations and with time God’s Grace will start building anew.
• Some of them will become merciless and pharisaical themselves and will consider that hardheartedness is a badge of honor, the sign that distinguish the good Christian. They are not soft, they are not sentimental. They are good Catholics, they just hate sin… It’s not their fault if sin seems to be too intermingled with some sinners.
  God’s Grace can reach them too, but it will have to pierce very thick armor, and one that gets thicker every day.

 

[JimG]

Um, even devout Catholics have been known to commit mortal sins once in an eight year period.

That’s true. It all comes down to continued conversion. I can’t say what public sins would disqualify an employee. Surely some would. A male teacher who routinely engaged in fornication, for example, or a teacher who publicly advocated for abortion or Planned Parenthood probably would be let go. A teacher who engaged in child molestation–just once, and repented, might not be hired or kept. I’m not making those decisions nor do I want to. But somebody has to.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

That’s true. It all comes down to continued conversion. I can’t say what public sins would disqualify an employee. Surely some would. A male teacher who routinely engaged in fornication, for example, or a teacher who publicly advocated for abortion or Planned Parenthood probably would be let go. A teacher who engaged in child molestation–just once, and repented, might not be hired or kept. I’m not making those decisions nor do I want to. But somebody has to.

So let me get this straight, a male teacher would need to engage in fornication repeatedly, but a female teacher only once?

Is pregnancy really on the level of being a child molester?

 

[saintjohnxxiii]

For those here who are critical of the school for this I would like to ask if it makes any difference if she is sorry or not? Would your opinion change if she said that she and the Father have no intention of getting married? Since single parenthood is sure indicator of poverty for the child and leads to many other problems is this something that we should be passive about?

 

[THP]

For those here who are critical of the school for this I would like to ask if it makes any difference if she is sorry or not? Would your opinion change if she said that she and the Father have no intention of getting married? Since single parenthood is sure indicator of poverty for the child and leads to many other problems is this something that we should be passive about?

We should all be sorry for the sins that we commit. She needs to be sorry for the sin of fornication - and after all of this I imagine she probably is.

I don’t think she needs to marry the guy necessarily. What if it happened during a single moment of weakness or intoxication and she doesn’t even know him at all? What if it turned out he has a criminal record and is unfit to be a husband much less a father? Again, I just don’t know enough about the specifics to weigh in appropriately.

 

[savedbygrace71]

For those here who are critical of the school for this I would like to ask if it makes any difference if she is sorry or not? Would your opinion change if she said that she and the Father have no intention of getting married? Since single parenthood is sure indicator of poverty for the child and leads to many other problems is this something that we should be passive about?

I think this matters a lot. I would like to think that she is planning to marry, and is aware of the sin involved. if she never marries, that’s a bit more complicated. but lets assume she does…Let’s fast forward five years. She’s since married the father, her child is four years old. Would she be ineligible for hire at a Catholic school for her prior sins? Of course not. I’m not sure that firing makes sense. Perhaps suspension and discussion, counseling, etc but firing? Not sure.

I had my first son out of wedlock. My husband and were, of course, not yet married, and were, as you must have guessed, fornicating. It sounds terrible to describe it in that way it was our personal decision to wait to get married, for various personal reasons. But we did get married. We have had another child. Both are Catholic. When the time comes for my first reconciliation, it will be on the list, a long list I’m sure. But as previous posters have said, we’ve all had plenty of sins to confess at one point or another, and that doesn’t necessarily make us unfit to teach.

 

[Cider]

For those here who are critical of the school for this I would like to ask if it makes any difference if she is sorry or not? Would your opinion change if she said that she and the Father have no intention of getting married? Since single parenthood is sure indicator of poverty for the child and leads to many other problems is this something that we should be passive about?

Yes it makes a difference what her attitude is. If she is truly repentant I don’t think she should be fired for a one time slip. We have the sacrament of confession for a reason and I think she should be applauded for choosing life instead of having an abortion and hiding it. On the other hand, if she chose to get pregnant as single mother by artificial insemination or is flaunting church teaching and has been living with her boyfriend for some time and has an attitude that the church should mind it’s own business, then my all means fire her.

 

[JimG]

So let me get this straight, a male teacher would need to engage in fornication repeatedly, but a female teacher only once?

Is pregnancy really on the level of being a child molester?

Certainly if a male teacher at the same school was the father of the child, I presume the consequences would be the same for both of them. People have noted several times here that we do not know all the details of this situation, nor is it any of our business.

But to a parent of a child at the school, it may indeed be their business because their children are involved. A single teacher who has been teaching, whom they know, shows up obviously pregnant. Nobody says anything. Do kids ask questions or not? Does it become a matter for class discussion? If she worked in the office instead of the classroom perhaps nobody would raise the question. Is there any action which violates the morality clause that should be enforced at all? Or does anything go?

I mention the child molester just as an example of a single sin, repented of, which might still affect a person’s job. What if a teacher were found to have child porn on his computer, yet never touched a child?

There’s all kinds of situations. In which cases do you enforce the contract? In which cases to you let it drop? Are the parents going to be unhappy either way? I have no idea. Maybe we should take a vote and inform the school of our decision!

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

For those here who are critical of the school for this I would like to ask if it makes any difference if she is sorry or not? Would your opinion change if she said that she and the Father have no intention of getting married? Since single parenthood is sure indicator of poverty for the child and leads to many other problems is this something that we should be passive about?

Repentance is extremely relevant.

I don’t actually care if she intends to marry the father. Many men these days are “just chivalrous enough” to off to pay half of the abortion.

Single parenthood doesn’t necessarily mean poverty, indeed less than a third (31.6%) of households headed by a single mother are below poverty line, for single fathers it is only 15.8% below poverty line. However take away her job and you’ve dramatically increased her chances of being below poverty line.

I think this matters a lot. I would like to think that she is planning to marry, and is aware of the sin involved. if she never marries, that’s a bit more complicated. but lets assume she does…Let’s fast forward five years. She’s since married the father, her child is four years old. Would she be ineligible for hire at a Catholic school for her prior sins? Of course not. I’m not sure that firing makes sense. Perhaps suspension and discussion, counseling, etc but firing? Not sure.

I had my first son out of wedlock. My husband and were, of course, not yet married, and were, as you must have guessed, fornicating. It sounds terrible to describe it in that way it was our personal decision to wait to get married, for various personal reasons. But we did get married. We have had another child. Both are Catholic. When the time comes for my first reconciliation, it will be on the list, a long list I’m sure. But as previous posters have said, we’ve all had plenty of sins to confess at one point or another, and that doesn’t necessarily make us unfit to teach.

If she doesn’t marry, so what?

Yes it makes a difference what her attitude is. If she is truly repentant I don’t think she should be fired for a one time slip. We have the sacrament of confession for a reason and I think she should be applauded for choosing life instead of having an abortion and hiding it. On the other hand, if she chose to get pregnant as single mother by artificial insemination or is flaunting church teaching and has been living with her boyfriend for some time and has an attitude that the church should mind it’s own business, then my all means fire her.

Indeed. As artificial insemination isn’t remotely close to mistake territory that should be fireable.

Certainly if a male teacher at the same school was the father of the child, I presume the consequences would be the same for both of them. People have noted several times here that we do not know all the details of this situation, nor is it any of our business.

But to a parent of a child at the school, it may indeed be their business because their children are involved. A single teacher who has been teaching, whom they know, shows up obviously pregnant. Nobody says anything. Do kids ask questions or not? Does it become a matter for class discussion? If she worked in the office instead of the classroom perhaps nobody would raise the question. Is there any action which violates the morality clause that should be enforced at all? Or does anything go?

I mention the child molester just as an example of a single sin, repented of, which might still affect a person’s job. What if a teacher were found to have child porn on his computer, yet never touched a child?

There’s all kinds of situations. In which cases do you enforce the contract? In which cases to you let it drop? Are the parents going to be unhappy either way? I have no idea. Maybe we should take a vote and inform the school of our decision!

Pregnancy neither indicates a pattern of sinful behavior nor does it indicate consent.

This could be a teaching moment, instead what you are de facto teaching is that they should use birth control and if that fails resort to abortion.

 

[saintjohnxxiii]

Repentance is extremely relevant.

I don’t actually care if she intends to marry the father. Many men these days are “just chivalrous enough” to off to pay half of the abortion.

If she doesn’t marry, so what?

This could be a teaching moment, instead what you are de facto teaching is that they should use birth control and if that fails resort to abortion.

What kind of a woman has a baby with a guy and doesn’t love him? If she isn’t willing to marry him this is why morality clauses matter because it reflects an attitude that completely contradicts the heart of the Catholic morality.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

What kind of a woman has a baby with a guy and doesn’t love him? If she isn’t willing to marry him this is why morality clauses matter because it reflects an attitude that completely contradicts the heart of the Catholic morality.

It could have been rape or she could have been drunk (which means it is probably rape as drunk people can’t consent). Pregnancy doesn’t indicate sobriety, consent or consciousness at the time.

 

[saintjohnxxiii]

It could have been rape or she could have been drunk (which means it is probably rape as drunk people can’t consent). Pregnancy doesn’t indicate sobriety, consent or consciousness at the time.

I don’t think it was rape because I would imagine that information would be known and the school would have no moral reason to fire her.