Unmarried Catholic school teacher, fired after pregnancy, will pursue legal action [CC]

[PhiloMed]

The school is not required in any way, shape or form to allow scandal in their hallways because one woman couldn’t keep her legs shut.

Actions have consequences. That’s life. This woman needs to do some serious growing up.

You are absolutely vile and disgusting for saying this.

This is a woman carrying a child you are speaking of.

Would Christ have spoken to her/of her that way?

 

[PhiloMed]

" *And Jesus went unto mount Olivet. And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came to him, and sitting down he taught them. And the scribes and the Pharisees bring unto him a woman taken in adultery: and they set her in the midst, And said to him: Master, this woman was even now taken in adultery. Now Moses in the law commanded us to stone such a one. But what sayest thou?

And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground. When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground. But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst. Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee?

Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more.* " John 8, 1-11

Fortunately, this incident took place in Jerusalem, the Holy Land, around the year 30 AD; and the righteous men with the stones had the good sense to slip away quietly. Had it happened in Butte, Montana, the USA, in 2014 AD, the outcome might have been different.

A question to those who say: “she should have thought about it twice before fornicating, etc, etc, etc…”: Are you really so pure? Not a single sin against the sixth commandment in your life? Haven’t you ever allowed an impure thought in your mind, not for a second? If you have, you may want to take a look at Mt 5, 27-28. If you haven’t, congratulations! I hope that God does not decide to place you in Heaven anything near those saints with a past, like St Augustine or St Mary Magdalene.

To deprive a pregnant woman of her livelihood is villainy. It is something that a decent man, religion aside (Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant, Jewish, Moslem, Buddhist, Atheist, Scientiologist, whatever) would never do.

But we can always consider the matter from a legalistic point of view and focus on what the Law of Mos… , the contract that she signed says.

Beautiful post, thank you!

Awful lot of stones being cast at this woman on this thread.

I certainly hope that the school is making sure none of the teachers are in “irregular” marriages and become pregnant. After all, that would also be considered fornicating.

 

[Lochias]

You are absolutely vile and disgusting for saying this.

This is a woman carrying a child you are speaking of.

Would Christ have spoken to her/of her that way?

http://ocobiega.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Cup_of_rage.jpg

 

[PhiloMed]

http://ocobiega.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Cup_of_rage.jpg

What is wrong with you? Where do you live? Can I help you find a therapist?

 

[Lochias]

Beautiful post, thank you!

Awful lot of stones being cast at this woman on this thread.

I certainly hope that the school is making sure none of the teachers are in “irregular” marriages and become pregnant. After all, that would also be considered fornicating.

If we as a society could read minds, this post might have a shred of logic.

 

[Lochias]

What is wrong with you? Where do you live? Can I help you find a therapist?

Nothing, 123 Fake Street, and nope. Direct attacks upon my character, complete dodging of the issue at hand, and deliberate obtuseness over the Catholic meaning of “scandal” are all your problems, not mine.

I just thought your over-the-top response to what I said was droll.

 

[jilly4ski]

Beautiful post, thank you!

Awful lot of stones being cast at this woman on this thread.

I certainly hope that the school is making sure none of the teachers are in “irregular” marriages and become pregnant. After all, that would also be considered fornicating.

You cannot have it both ways. Homosexual activists keep telling the Church that we don’t treat others who commit sexual sins the same as homosexual sins. We say yes we do, those who violate the morality clauses suffer the consequence spelled out in the contract. The school must fire her, if they want to preserve the right to fire others who violate the morality clause including homosexual’s who attempt “marriages.” Or those in invalid marriages, or those who pass out condoms or advocate the use of contraception.

Those of you throwing out Bible verses, remember that Jesus also said: “If anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a large millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea.” Mark 9:42.

 

[PhiloMed]

You cannot have it both ways. Homosexual activists keep telling the Church that we don’t treat others who commit sexual sins the same as homosexual sins. We say yes we do, those who violate the morality clauses suffer the consequence spelled out in the contract. The school must fire her, if they want to preserve the right to fire others who violate the morality clause including homosexual’s who attempt “marriages.” Or those in invalid marriages, or those who pass out condoms or advocate the use of contraception.

Those of you throwing out Bible verses, remember that Jesus also said: “If anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a large millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea.” Mark 9:42.

So charity is…irrelevant?

This woman had a job and was supporting herself. She will soon have a child to support as well. Her income and her health insurance have now been taken away from her.

What would you like to do now to support her as she has now become an unwed mother who has chosen life over abortion and will clearly have needs.

 

[PhiloMed]

Perhaps my perspective is different because I work in a field where I have problems in front of me that need to be addressed, not theoretical ones that can be prevented in the future. When a patient comes to me with x problem which was clearly caused by their bad behavior I don’t have the luxury of saying “Well, you shouldn’t have done that.” and send them on their way.

I need to address the issue at hand, and then follow-up with ways to improve their life or prevent the error.

Many of the arguments here are going straight to the “Oh well, there’s consequences to your actions” part without addressing the situation at hand. There is a person in need and how do we respond?

 

[Burt_Macklin]

So charity is…irrelevant?

This woman had a job and was supporting herself. She will soon have a child to support as well. Her income and her health insurance have now been taken away from her.

What would you like to do now to support her as she has now become an unwed mother who has chosen life over abortion and will clearly have needs.

Why is unemployment and finding another job not an option? Being fired is not the best thing that can happen but it isn’t the end of the world either.

 

[sousley]

Exactly, if she was a well liked teacher, then the students will be flabbergasted at how unmerciful their God/church is, that their favourite teacher has been thrown out because she was pregnant. I think every child (student) born in the western world is well aware of what fornication is, it’s thrown in their face day in, day out, media, music etc… and also they will, no doubt, have relatives and friends of their families ‘living in sin’.

Mercy and kindness has a far stronger pull than ‘throwing stones’.

I agree that we must always be charitable. We keep talking about mercy, kindness, and compassion which are certainly virtuous spiritual works, but there is no indication that colleagues and friends are not extending these to her. I feel empathy and sympathy for her plight but these are separate from justice.

Mercy and kindness, like justice and freedom, must remain coupled to moral truth. When we detach these from truth, they too easily become redefined by emotions. God shows true mercy to the penitent.

If I were to show “mercy” to this person by putting my arm around her and saying, “It’s Ok, you’re doing the right thing by suing them, look what a great thing you’re doing by keeping the baby, it isn’t really their business how you got pregnant anyway, they were wrong”, this “mercy” would be false.
Encouraging your neighbor to remain in sin, justify it, or not accept penance with humility is not showing love to one’s neighbor.

 

[PhiloMed]

Why is unemployment and finding another job not an option? Being fired is not the best thing that can happen but it isn’t the end of the world either.

Ever been pregnant and looked for a job?

Didn’t think so.

And what if this woman was a single mother raising a child she had out of wedlock when she was interviewed for the job? Should they have checked she went to confession? Should they not hire her on the grounds that she had a child out of wedlock at one time in her life?

What I’m getting at is that they chose this particular issue with her because it was obvious, but the Church doesn’t have varying degrees of mortal sin so if another employee has something gravely evil they are obligated to fire them too. They better start firing a lot of teachers because unless the Blessed Mother herself works there there is not one who is without sin now or in the past.

 

[PhiloMed]

If I were to show “mercy” to this person by putting my arm around her and saying, “It’s Ok, you’re doing the right thing by suing them, look what a great thing you’re doing by keeping the baby, it isn’t really their business how you got pregnant anyway, they were wrong”, this “mercy” would be false.
Encouraging your neighbor to remain in sin, justify it, or not accept penance with humility is not showing love to one’s neighbor.

I agree. But couldn’t there have been another alternative? Maybe recommend she take a leave of absence until the baby is born- allowing her to at least keep her health insurance and a job when she returns?

They essentially took a pregnant woman and an unborn baby and cast them both out of the house.

 

[Just_Lurking]

Why is unemployment and finding another job not an option? Being fired is not the best thing that can happen but it isn’t the end of the world either.

Would/should a Catholic school hire an unmarried, pregnant woman who was willing to agree not to have any more pre-marital sex?

 

[jilly4ski]

Ever been pregnant and looked for a job?

Didn’t think so.

Yes, if fact I have. I don’t know what this has to do with her situation.

We don’t know what kind of charity is being given to her (or if her health insurance really was taken away. She would qualify for medicaid as pregnant and unemployed). You are only looking at compassion, kindness, and charity towards her, but what about the hundreds of students this school is charged with caring for and charged with helping to impart the faith to. That is the schools first moral priority. Like I said, perhaps you should start a fund so that school teachers who violate their contracts in this way can receive funding and be moved to an administrative position so she doesn’t cause scandal. Of course you are going to have to word that fund very carefully to exclude other people who violate their morality clause in ways you don’t want to help, or to avoid helping people who are not repentant (that is a pretty difficult thing to prove).

 

[PhiloMed]

Yes, if fact I have. I don’t know what this has to do with her situation.

We don’t know what kind of charity is being given to her (or if her health insurance really was taken away. She would qualify for medicaid as pregnant and unemployed). You are only looking at compassion, kindness, and charity towards her, but what about the hundreds of students this school is charged with caring for and charged with helping to impart the faith to. That is the schools first moral priority. Like I said, perhaps you should start a fund so that school teachers who violate their contracts in this way can receive funding and be moved to an administrative position so she doesn’t cause scandal. Of course you are going to have to word that fund very carefully to exclude other people who violate their morality clause in ways you don’t want to help, or to avoid helping people who are not repentant (that is a pretty difficult thing to prove).

I was responding to someone else and the impression I had was that it’s “no big deal”, when it reality it can be very difficult.

Personally, I would be horrified if my child went to this school and this is how they treated one of their teachers. I would likely pull them from this school and try to find another one.

Yes, I am focusing on the charity because I believe that is the more important moral lesson to teach our children rather than punishing someone for not hiding their sin well enough.

As far as the legality of it, it may very well be that the courts will find in favor of the school and that they have every right to fire this woman. The bigger question should be if that is the Christian thing to do.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Ever been pregnant and looked for a job?

Didn’t think so.

of course not. But that is why I assumed she would draw unemployment first and then find a job.

And what if this woman was a single mother raising a child she had out of wedlock when she was interviewed for the job? Should they have checked she went to confession? Should they not hire her on the grounds that she had a child out of wedlock at one time in her life?

Personally, I’d refuse to answer any questions that don’t pertain to the job. I assume though, that people who are trying to work at a Catholic school are going to invite a little more scrutiny into their personal lives. Don’t like it, don’t work there.

What I’m getting at is that they chose this particular issue with her because it was obvious, but the Church doesn’t have varying degrees of mortal sin so if another employee has something gravely evil they are obligated to fire them too. They better start firing a lot of teachers because unless the Blessed Mother herself works there there is not one who is without sin now or in the past.

Which is why it is important to respect everyone’s privacy. As long as you don’t publicly flaunt church teaching then nobody is going to start snooping. Her big problem was not keeping her mouth shut.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Would/should a Catholic school hire an unmarried, pregnant woman who was willing to agree not to have any more pre-marital sex?

I assume they shouldn’t ask about either one of those questions during hiring… so yes. And it would cause a lot of trouble to ask those questions only to female applicants.

 

[PhiloMed]

Which is why it is important to respect everyone’s privacy. As long as you don’t publicly flaunt church teaching then nobody is going to start snooping. Her big problem was not keeping her mouth shut.

But then we’re saying sin is acceptable as long as we don’t talk about it.

She couldn’t hide being pregnant forever. I tried to keep my mouth shut to my employer about being pregnant because I knew it would just make my work life more difficult. The small problem of maternity leave was going to come up sooner or later, though, and I have been punished daily for my “choices” ever since that conversation.

Maybe that’s why I feel emotionally vested in this topic. While I am married I am being treated badly for the inconvenience I am causing others by being pregnant. Perhaps I feel a kindred spirit with this woman.

 

[PhiloMed]

I assume they shouldn’t ask about either one of those questions during hiring… so yes.

But when you fill out tax paperwork for the job you will need to report if you are married. The school will know and therefore know if you are married or unmarried.

Some things just can’t be kept secret forever.