Unmarried Catholic school teacher has baby

[CreatioNova]

The school my daughter attends is a catholic school. It is generally well run and fairly strict and has at its heart the teachings of the catholic church running through the curriculum and school activities. I posted elsewhere on another thread a troublesome issue now arising with school assemblies beng held in the church.

However, I have now discovered that one of the teachers, who is unmarried, has just had a baby. She brought the baby into school for the girls to see and go gaga over.

All very well and good but now Im wondering what kind of example is this setting to the girls. On the one hand they are being taught catholic principles and morals, and particularly the older group about love and sex and relationships, and then they get presented with a beautiful bonnie baby by an unmarried teacher they all look up to and respect.

Im now left wondering if the school should take a much stronger line with the moral example set by the teachers in the school, but no doubt they would run foul of some sex discrimination law or other

 

[Biggie]

I for one would definitely not be comfortable with the teacher bringing the child to school and might do something about it depending on how it went. I would also be concerned about the person’s fitness to teach in a Catholic School and again, depending on circumstances, might do something about it. I know life is messy - I mean in our diocese we have a pastor who has a child by the wife of a parishioner from his previous assignment and his new parish has been asked to welcome him and the child. We all have to stretch to be understanding, being mindful of our own failures. But sometimes “one’s mind can be so open one’s brains fall out” and I think children are to be protected from scandal.

 

[Swan]

What do you think Jesus would do? Throw her out? Stone her? Just hink, if she’d had an abortion nobody every would have known. How about abmitting that folks are human, make mistakes and should be treated with mercy, compassion and forgiveness. IMO, that’s what Jesus would do. I’m not trying to be rude and apologize if I’m coming off that way - but as Jesus pointed out, the sick don’t need a physician. Mercy, compassion and forgiveness. No stone throwing. Remember, there but for the grace of God, go I.

 

[CreatioNova]

Indeed so Swan, but as the father of a very impressionable child who attends the school, I cant help wondering if, when confronted with issues about sex outside mariage and pregnancy, she will hold up Miss X as an example of how its just fine, since Miss X is well educated, earns good money, has a good lifestyle, has a respected job in the commnity, and look, she had sex outside marriage, got pregnant, had a baby, and everyone just thought how cute !!! As a father I cant help wondering and worrying about these things.

I would never condemn or judge the teacher. She is popular and well respected by all in the school.

I just cant help but wonder what sort of mixed message this is sending to the girls in the school. They are taught sex outside of marriage is wrong, sex is a gift from God, procreation should happen within the loving context of a married couple, and then they see Miss X present her baby to the whole school, flying in the face of everything thy are being thought.

Perhaps the school should have told her she cannot bring the baby in… I dont know … Im struggling with this …

 

[Awful_Things]

What do you think Jesus would do? Throw her out? Stone her? Just hink, if she’d had an abortion nobody every would have known. How about abmitting that folks are human, make mistakes and should be treated with mercy, compassion and forgiveness. IMO, that’s what Jesus would do. I’m not trying to be rude and apologize if I’m coming off that way - but as Jesus pointed out, the sick don’t need a physician. Mercy, compassion and forgiveness. No stone throwing. Remember, there but for the grace of God, go I.

Without saying one way or the other what I would do in the above situation (too many variables), I’ll mention that the “it could be worse” argument is a fallacy. Yes, if she had had an abortion, nobody would know. This doesn’t excuse a more overt sin. Suppose one found out his accountant had embezzled money from his finances. It could be argued, “Well, if the accountant had invited me on a fishing trip and drowned me in the border waters of Minnesot, nobody would have known.”

I’ll also point out that yes, Jesus would have offered forgiveness, but Scripture is very clear that even with forgiveness, there are often consequences. Again, I can’t say one way or the other what I would do in the above situation, but I can say that the Christ’s teachings on forgiveness do not grant an unconditional free ride to a teacher who, as most Catholic school teachers do, most likely signed a morality clause along with her contract.

 

[_Jenn]

So how is this just an issue now? Surely, if she “just” had a baby recently, she’d have been pregnant enough to be showing at the end of the school year. Was she there til the end? Did nobody have any idea, or is there the off chance that maybe she adopted the baby?

Just throwing out some food for thought that came to my mind as I read it, as a woman who has had 3 friends have babies in the past month, all of whom were definitely visibly pregnant during the end of most typical school years.

 

[whatevergirl]

Indeed so Swan, but as the father of a very impressionable child who attends the school, I cant help wondering if, when confronted with issues about sex outside mariage and pregnancy, she will hold up Miss X as an example of how its just fine, since Miss X is well educated, earns good money, has a good lifestyle, has a respected job in the commnity, and look, she had sex outside marriage, got pregnant, had a baby, and everyone just thought how cute !!! As a father I cant help wondering and worrying about these things.

I would never condemn or judge the teacher. She is popular and well respected by all in the school.

I just cant help but wonder what sort of mixed message this is sending to the girls in the school. They are taught sex outside of marriage is wrong, sex is a gift from God, procreation should happen within the loving context of a married couple, and then they see Miss X present her baby to the whole school, flying in the face of everything thy are being thought.

Perhaps the school should have told her she cannot bring the baby in… I dont know … Im struggling with this …

It’s a tough spot for you as a parent to be in, no doubt. Maybe this teacher could speak about her situation…stating that people should be married when having children…etc…I don’t think that she should just go back to teaching things as nothing ever happened, and I also don’t think she should be let go, either. There has to be a happy medium in this somewhere. I agree with the poster talking about how Jesus would handle it; but, at the same time, this teacher should make it a point to discuss what happened, within reason (she doesn’t need to go into explicit personal details with her classes) and explain that waiting for marriage, is the best way, but sometimes people rush into things without thinking, and go from there.

Just food for thought.

 

[CreatioNova]

Jenn - It’s a large school and she teaches the younger girls and I have little or no contact with her end of the school. My daughter through the playgorund gossip network knew she was pregnant and expecting a baby, and she returned back to work almost immediately after having the baby - but is now part time. When I said I ‘‘just’’ found out this was by me asking who’s was the baby in a picture she was uploading onto the computer - Miss X’s she replies and then filled me in on all the details including the fact Miss X is not married, which she giggled about !!

 

[_Jenn]

Jenn - It’s a large school and she teaches the younger girls and I have little or no contact with her end of the school. My daughter through the playgorund gossip network knew she was pregnant and expecting a baby, and she returned back to work almost immediately after having the baby - but is now part time. When I said I ‘‘just’’ found out this was by me asking who’s was the baby in a picture she was uploading onto the computer - Miss X’s she replies and then filled me in on all the details including the fact Miss X is not married, which she giggled about !!

ahh, I see. Just the way things were worded made me think that there could be other possibilites.

 

[JenDid]

I think as Catholics we have a duty to forgive as we ask the Father to forgive us. At the same time, you make an important point about the example being set for impressionable students. Was she teaching at the school while she was pregnant? How was that handled?
Since it is really bothering you, maybe you could request a meeting with the principal, and express your concern, not in judgement against this young woman, (as another person pointed out, if she had an abortion no one would have known anything about her illicit behavior) but in questioning the appropriateness of her bringing her child to school to show the students, given that it is a Catholic school and they are supposed to be learning that sex outside marriage is wrong, etc.
On the other hand, you could just reiterate with your own children the teachings of the Church, and explain that while Miss X committed a sin which resulted in her having this baby, she had the courage to admit it, and bring the baby into the world. This could also be a wonderful opportunity to talk about the wonderful sacrament of reconciliation.

 

[BLUEMOON74]

Jenn - It’s a large school and she teaches the younger girls and I have little or no contact with her end of the school. My daughter through the playgorund gossip network knew she was pregnant and expecting a baby, and she returned back to work almost immediately after having the baby - but is now part time.

When I said I ‘‘just’’ found out this was by me asking who’s was the baby in a picture she was uploading onto the computer - Miss X’s she replies and then filled me in on all the details including the fact Miss X is not married, which she giggled about !!

Oh boy. This part in bold here is what I was wondering. How is it affecting your daughter and other classmates. Initially, I thought well she certainly knows it was wrong, there is no way she’s not embarrissed over this, and pondered how she would explain her pregnancy to others including her students. I suppose if the young children did not know she was unmarried that would be one thing, not that it makes it right, but these things do happen, and better to shoulder that burden, than to have an abortion certainly. However, my concern is how does your daughter know she is unmarried and the giggling over it. Thats definitely a concern and I dont know that she should broadcast this especially in her line of work. I do not think she is the axis of evil that deserves to be *condemned or stoned *, this is a situation that is just not really appropriate with her line of work, and children are impressionable. This is one of those times that call for a higher measure–the parent. Noone is more influential than you. My favorite babysitter’s sister got pregnant in her late teens and certainly was not married. We were all Catholic. My parents sat me down. They told me not to ask about the father or make any statements about her being unmarried or embarriss her . They also coached me on what an absolute huge mistake it is to get pregnant without being married especially that young. They went on further about the fundamental teachings of the Catholic faith, how and why this is against our belief system and not something God wants for our lives. Our discussion took about an hour, I was about 6 or 7 years old, and I never forgot that. My parents had to override so to speak the ooohs and aaahs over her new baby without being ugly about it to make a very valid point to me that I never forgot. You are in a very tough situation, and no doubt you have instilled these morals in your children. I would probably have a talk with her supervisor. I would not make a federal case and get her fired, but I would have a talk of ethics and morals with her supervisor in concern for what you want your daughter exposed to especially at this tender age and with such a tender subject. Continue to talk with your daughter. Keep the lines of communication open without overwhelming her young mind, bc we girls get embarrissed about that when talking to our dads, but you definitely do not want her thinking this is funny or cute, or a small scandal thats ok bc Miss X did it and we all just looove her to pieces. Her being well-respected in the community means nothing when it comes to Miss X pushing the envelope with this little stork of surprise in regards to the morals and beliefs you have instilled in your daughter through the Catholic faith; by bringing her infant to class. The bigger concern is that the cat is out of the bag, kids are talking on the playground, it is getting back to and affecting your daughter’s point of view somewhat(keep in mind at that young age it is very easy for you to deflect this impression) and is it right to bring her child to school and expose this to your child and her students of any age. That is how I would address this with her supervisor, and I would not take it any further than that, as I am sure they are all aware, and I am sure society in general does not expect Miss X to hide in a cave forever with her baby. My bet is that the school is on the fence with this and Miss X is already concerned that she may be in danger of losing her position-hence my surprise at her bringing baby to school (perhaps the students kept asking). This situation will pass and you and your daughter will be closer and stronger for it. God Bless You.

 

[ghaybyers1]

There are several issues with this, but I’d like to tackle your concern over your daughter’s giggles first.

Your daughter, who thankfully has the good fortune to be being raised in a Catholic family and attending Catholic school, is likely having her first “first hand” experience with sexual immorality. It’s all fine and good to explain to them that sex belongs in marriage, yada yada, but until they see the life of someone for whom sex hasn’t only occurred in marriage they do not truly understand. Your daughter is likely giggling because she is embarrassed FOR her teacher and can’t really express this in any way.

Secondly. I completely understand your concern and I don’t belittle it in any way, so don’t take what I’m going to say next in any uncharitable way. Perhaps you should be offering up prayers of thanks that this warning message has been given to your child now, rather than obsessing over the example it sets. One teacher cannot influence your child to engage in premarital relations if you have truly taught her to understand the Truth that the Church teaches us.
Yes, the example that our community sets is important, but also offer up thanks that she has publicly shown that abortion is not the option. Is it not infinitely better? Is it not also a lesson that our children need to learn, and understand that sin happens- premarital pregnancies will happen because we have free will and we will alllllways sin. It is just as important to teach our children to value OTHER children, no matter how they come to be. This is the perfect time to speak to your child about the worth of a human life.

This is also the time to teach your child about being like Jesus and loving the sinner. Hate the sin all you want but that child is not the sin and is a beacon of life! That baby has a strong Catholic mother. She may have sinned, but if she is true to her faith she has done her penance and is now as clean as the rest of us. There is nothing to hold against her. Welcome her and her child into the community- she needs the Church more than ever now. Make good use of this opportunity with your child. You’re in my prayers.

 

[Swan]

I think as Catholics we have a duty to forgive as we ask the Father to forgive us. At the same time, you make an important point about the example being set for impressionable students. Was she teaching at the school while she was pregnant? How was that handled?
Since it is really bothering you, maybe you could request a meeting with the principal, and express your concern, not in judgement against this young woman, (as another person pointed out, if she had an abortion no one would have known anything about her illicit behavior) but in questioning the appropriateness of her bringing her child to school to show the students, given that it is a Catholic school and they are supposed to be learning that sex outside marriage is wrong, etc.
On the other hand, you could just reiterate with your own children the teachings of the Church, and explain that while Miss X committed a sin which resulted in her having this baby, she had the courage to admit it, and bring the baby into the world. This could also be a wonderful opportunity to talk about the wonderful sacrament of reconciliation.

I think this is a good suggestion. Talk to your child about it in view of your faith. It’s not like the teacher is “getting away” with something after all. She made a mistake, she’s making the best of it. Explain it to your daughter so that she understands it that way. It can be a great example to her of Jesus’ love and forgiveness as well as how we treat each other based on his teachings. It’s also a good way to show that we’re all human and we all make mistakes, regarless of what religion we practice. It really all can flow together as a positive lesson, I think.

 

[GraceDK]

The school my daughter attends is a catholic school. It is generally well run and fairly strict and has at its heart the teachings of the catholic church running through the curriculum and school activities. I posted elsewhere on another thread a troublesome issue now arising with school assemblies beng held in the church.

However, I have now discovered that one of the teachers, who is unmarried, has just had a baby. She brought the baby into school for the girls to see and go gaga over.

All very well and good but now Im wondering what kind of example is this setting to the girls. On the one hand they are being taught catholic principles and morals, and particularly the older group about love and sex and relationships, and then they get presented with a beautiful bonnie baby by an unmarried teacher they all look up to and respect.

Im now left wondering if the school should take a much stronger line with the moral example set by the teachers in the school, but no doubt they would run foul of some sex discrimination law or other

Being a single parent can be a hard thing. She probably brought the baby with her to school because there was no one to take of the child on that day. The daddy obviously left instead of taking his repsonsibility and is now somewhere else safe from the stimatizing that this teacher has to go through.
A child is not some shameful thing to be stuffed away. Indeed people have children out of wedlock to many times but children are not so impressive that they think automatically: X did y = I do y. If you teach your kids everything and do it well and dont have taboos in the family then they certainly will not be so easily influenced.

I think no wrong has been comitted in this example. This is real life yes, but dealt with in a responsible way by letting the child have life.
The mother and hopefully the dad have repented and been to confession. Now the baby exists… it will be there and grow older… Rather that the comminity gets used to it from the beginning.

Peace

 

[RachelsAlumni]

I have now discovered that one of the teachers, who is unmarried, has just had a baby. She brought the baby into school for the girls to see and go gaga over.

All very well and good but now Im wondering what kind of example is this setting to the girls. On the one hand they are being taught catholic principles and morals, and particularly the older group about love and sex and relationships, and then they get presented with a beautiful bonnie baby by an unmarried teacher they all look up to and respect.(

I actually think that the example she is showing is that she chose life for her baby. That even though this may not have been a planned pregnancy, by the fact that she is unmarried, she chose to give her child life. That in itself is giving witness to the gospel of life.

These young women will always have her as an example to look up to that chose to bring forth the life in her even though there will always be those who will look on her with scorn, rather than hide or kill it and be free from such scorn.

I think it would be setting a very bad example, especially for a ProLife Catholic school, to punish, scorn, and banish her (put her away privately) for choosing to bring forth the life within her.

What kind of message would that give the pro-abort crowd who ask prolifers ‘what do you do to help the mother?’

Women deserve better than to have to choose between their job and their child, especially in a setting committed to the gospel of life.

The Gospel of Matthew Chapter 1
18 Now the generation of Christ was in this wise. When as his mother Mary was engaged to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child, of the Holy Ghost. 19 Whereupon Joseph, being a just man, and not willing publicly to expose her, was minded to put her away privately. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold the angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her, is of the Holy Ghost.

 

[Just_Lurking]

What do you think Jesus would do?

On reading the Bible, you will find that there is a certain tension between the following two themes:

• We are all sinners.
• Leaders need to be good role models.

It doesn’t seem to me to be completely out of character of Jesus to impose the requirement of being a good role model on teachers as well as on Church elders, bishops, and priests.

 

[RachelsAlumni]

Indeed so Swan, but as the father of a very impressionable child who attends the school, I cant help wondering if, when confronted with issues about sex outside mariage and pregnancy, she will hold up Miss X as an example of how its just fine, since Miss X is well educated, earns good money, has a good lifestyle, has a respected job in the commnity, and look, she had sex outside marriage, got pregnant, had a baby, and everyone just thought how cute !!! As a father I cant help wondering and worrying about these things. …

I think this would be a great opportunity for you as a parent to show compassion and concern for women faced with an unplanned pregnancy and at the same time teach your child about the respect for life and chastity.

The respect for life in that she did choose life even though there will always be those who will look upon her with scorn. She chose life even though her life will be more difficult. This is something to be celebrated with joy.

The respect for chastity because this is what can happen when a person fails to be chaste. They can find themselves with difficult choices, none of which are perfect. Single parenthood is a very, very tough road not only for the mother but the child as well. Where is the child’s father? Will the child ever even know their father? Will the teacher ever be able to find a husband to help her parent? This child may never know what it’s like to grow up in a home with a mommy and daddy who love them. Something which your own child may even take for granted.

It’s a great opportunity to teach that God’s way is always best. When we choose God’s way things always go the best for us. When we divert from God’s way then we have more self-inflicted pain and misery even when it might not be apparent to others.

 

[CreatioNova]

Women deserve better than to have to choose between their job and their child, especially in a setting committed to the gospel of life.

I certainly dont think she should be scorned, shamed, should have had an abortion, nor should she be forced to lose her job. Legislation here would mean the school would be brought to tribunal and sued for millions.

My initial shock was based on the fact that an unmarried catholic school teacher brought her baby into the classroom for all to google at, and on the surface of it my initial reaction was this flies in the face of what the girls are being thought about catholic morality.
What lessons sink in best with kids that age - a tedious lecture from the teaching staff or a real life example from the teacher??

The area I live in is not a majority catholic area. We moved so the girls could go to a catholic school. Most of my older daughters friends and just about all of my younger daughters friends come from broken homes, some with siblings from 2 or 3 different fathers. Noone bats an eyelid. It’s considered normal.

I dont want my kids growing up thinking its normal to have sex outside marriage, its normal for a woman to bring up kids on her own with no father present, its normal for 2 men or 2 women to marry and have kids, its normal for 3 brothers and sisters to all have different dads. Thats the role models that exist in my local community. Thats why I want my kids getting a good catholic foundation at school (along with us at home needless to say) and thats why it was such a kicker when my daughter was exposed to a teacher she knows and likes and looks up to, in a catholic school, proclaiming she is a single mum, heres the bonnie baby, and everything is just cool.

Thats what I struggled with.

But theres been some well considered opinions posted here, for which Im grateful.

We are dealing with the issue with my daughter at a level she can understand, and she will continue to learn and know about Gods love and forgiveness, the hardship by ultimate joy and peace of trying to follow his word, that we are all sinners and only God can know our hearts and judge us, and regardless what society or liberal catholic teachers say and do, there is such a thing as right and wrong.

 

[JReducation]

I don’t know the age of your child. I can tell you what I have always taught my children about this kind of situation. “People make mistakes, but the unborn child did not make the mistake. This baby came into the world and we have to love it. We don’t have to make the same mistake that the parent made. The best time to have a child is after you’re married.”

As my children got older we got into more details.

JR

 

[RachelsAlumni]

My initial shock was based on the fact that an unmarried catholic school teacher brought her baby into the classroom for all to google at, and on the surface of it my initial reaction was this flies in the face of what the girls are being thought about catholic morality.
What lessons sink in best with kids that age - a tedious lecture from the teaching staff or a real life example from the teacher??

Yes, but that’s already happened and now you can take that real life example and use it to teach your values. First, by sharing in the joy and celebrating life! The joy of a child and new life, regardless of the circumstances, is always worthy of celebration.

I dont want my kids growing up thinking its normal to have sex outside marriage, its normal for a woman to bring up kids on her own with no father present, its normal for 2 men or 2 women to marry and have kids, its normal for 3 brothers and sisters to all have different dads.

You will never be able to isolate your children from the world around them which is growing more and more away from God. All of these situations you’ve described are far from perfect. Children growing up in homes with different dad’s or never even knowing their dad or mom is a very hurtful, sad and difficult life for the child.

When I grew up I knew that my mom and my dad would give up their life for me if I was ever in harms way. How many kids who grow up in broken homes can say the same? Their life is very difficult. Statistics show that children in single parent homes, or broken homes are more likely to live in poverty as well as engage in all kinds of behavioral problems i.e. increased school drop out rate, promiscuity, unplanned pregnancy, drug & alcohol abuse. These are not the behaviors of happy & secure families. These are the behaviors of wounded families.

You can use this to help teach your children how great God is. You can show your children by the example of your lives how His plans for us are good and by following His plan they will have more abundant happiness. You are giving them a wonderful example in your life of the positive rewards of following God. Your children have the wonderful benefit of a secure home with a mother & father who love them and would give up their lives for them in a world where this is all too uncommon.