Unmarried Catholic school teacher has baby

[GraceDK]

No where did I say she should be ashamed of her child. But, no where would I say she should brag about the fact that she had a child out of wedlock. .

You did not earlier say that she bragged about having a chld out of wedlock. Are you now not bearing false wittness against your neighbour?
Is it not rather that she was proud of her child, not that she was proud of having a child out of wedlock.
There is a big difference. Think about it.
The reason why I bring this to your attention is that it occurs to me from other things you have said that there is gossip and slandering taking place among the children, maybe even your ouwn, and maybe even in the homes where children learn what is right and wrong.

 

[KathleenElsie]

You did not earlier say that she bragged about having a chld out of wedlock. Are you now not bearing false wittness against your neighbour?
Is it not rather that she was proud of her child, not that she was proud of having a child out of wedlock.
There is a big difference. Think about it.
The reason why I bring this to your attention is that it occurs to me from other things you have said that there is gossip and slandering taking place among the children, maybe even your ouwn, and maybe even in the homes where children learn what is right and wrong.

As a grandmother of many, mother, foster parent, teacher and former social worker it has been my experience that children do gossip. The gossip can become even worse if parents do not address the issue. An unfortunate fact is that when bad examples the fact of sex outside of marriage tend to far our weigh the good example of having the baby in many children and adult minds.

The adult will condemn the first action and forget the second at the most ignore it. Both wrong reactions.

The child on the other hand will forget the first action was a sin (this is because of our society not teachings sex after marriage)and could make the blessing of a child the focus. All children are a blessing of God no child should suffer because of the circumstances of its birth.

But the fact is that the parents of the children that attend this school need guidance on how to let the kids know that the actions that led to this baby were wrong and not to be followed. If we ignore this fact then we as parents are remiss in teaching our children right from wrong.

If discussing with the children something that actually happened when you are involved (yes the teacher, parents and children attending the school are all involved) is slander and gossip then when is it ever correct to point out that a sin is a sin even when the proper thing was done in the end?

I have never had to discuss this type of a situation with my children or grand children. I pray I never do have to do so. But, I would never say that the situation was good or desirable. I would say that the mother chose the proper and moral thing in having the baby.

But as I stated earlier teachers and persons in prominent church or public positions should be held to a higher standards. Some fail to be good examples and then turn around to do the right and proper thing. If we never discuss this with our youth then we have failed in our parental responsibility IMHO.

This is my last post on this thread. As I feel you have placed me as the boggy man and the sinner for saying what many people are feeling. I am not gossiping, I did answer the question asked. I did not slander as I did not go out and tell wrongful information I only used the information provided. And lastly no where and at no time have I ever talked about this with anyone except on this thread.

PAX

 

[ethelzguy]

What do you think Jesus would do? Throw her out? Stone her? Just hink, if she’d had an abortion nobody every would have known. How about abmitting that folks are human, make mistakes and should be treated with mercy, compassion and forgiveness. IMO, that’s what Jesus would do. I’m not trying to be rude and apologize if I’m coming off that way - but as Jesus pointed out, the sick don’t need a physician. Mercy, compassion and forgiveness. No stone throwing. Remember, there but for the grace of God, go I.

We’re running out of nuns to teach in our Catholic schools.

So, we now use lay teachers. If we arbitrarily toss out the lay teachers that “don’t meet our personal moral standards”, we might as well shut the schools down.

Most Catholic schools pay well under the going rate that the public schools pay. We have a hard enough time getting teachers as it is. Those school kids don’t necessarily know if their teacher is married or not. And yes, she could have had an abortion instead.

When life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

 

[rwoehmke]

There are several issues with this, but I’d like to tackle your concern over your daughter’s giggles first.

Your daughter, who thankfully has the good fortune to be being raised in a Catholic family and attending Catholic school, is likely having her first “first hand” experience with sexual immorality. It’s all fine and good to explain to them that sex belongs in marriage, yada yada, but until they see the life of someone for whom sex hasn’t only occurred in marriage they do not truly understand. Your daughter is likely giggling because she is embarrassed FOR her teacher and can’t really express this in any way.

Secondly. I completely understand your concern and I don’t belittle it in any way, so don’t take what I’m going to say next in any uncharitable way. Perhaps you should be offering up prayers of thanks that this warning message has been given to your child now, rather than obsessing over the example it sets. One teacher cannot influence your child to engage in premarital relations if you have truly taught her to understand the Truth that the Church teaches us.
Yes, the example that our community sets is important, but also offer up thanks that she has publicly shown that abortion is not the option. Is it not infinitely better? Is it not also a lesson that our children need to learn, and understand that sin happens- premarital pregnancies will happen because we have free will and we will alllllways sin. It is just as important to teach our children to value OTHER children, no matter how they come to be. This is the perfect time to speak to your child about the worth of a human life.

This is also the time to teach your child about being like Jesus and loving the sinner. Hate the sin all you want but that child is not the sin and is a beacon of life! That baby has a strong Catholic mother. She may have sinned, but if she is true to her faith she has done her penance and is now as clean as the rest of us. There is nothing to hold against her. Welcome her and her child into the community- she needs the Church more than ever now. Make good use of this opportunity with your child. You’re in my prayers.

Indeed a very “teachable moment!” One could say a gift from the Lord. What a perfect time to talk with your daughter about sexual morality, sin, forgiveness, charity, etc. A moment with almost unlimited possibilities for effective parent child interaction…

 

[Newbie2]

Indeed a very “teachable moment!” One could say a gift from the Lord. What a perfect time to talk with your daughter about sexual morality, sin, forgiveness, charity, etc. A moment with almost unlimited possibilities for effective parent child interaction…

I’d second (or third) that.

I see the OP’s concern here, yet see a great opportunity for education here. The teacher in question messed up, but did the right thing in keeping the baby.

Still, a discussion with the principal wouldn’t be out of line here, to express your concerns.

 

[JReducation]

Indeed a very “teachable moment!” One could say a gift from the Lord. What a perfect time to talk with your daughter about sexual morality, sin, forgiveness, charity, etc. A moment with almost unlimited possibilities for effective parent child interaction…

Amen to that.

I have two children and we’ve had several of these conversations re: gay teachers, unwed mother teachers, teachers who get a divorce during the school year, kids who engage in drug abuse, classmates engaging in pre-marital sex, and our pastor who committed suicide.

Today, my kids are 19 and 24. They are good Catholics and good citizens. Thank God for those teachable moments.

JR

 

[HappyPerson]

Should a mother who refrains from murdering her child really be commended for having committed an act of virtue??? The way I see it, that constitutes merely a wash. We need to stop giving creedence to liberal values that conflict with the very Truth of God, and start thinking like Catholics. A mother who risks her life to save her child’s life deserves to be commended for a loving act of virtue. A mother merely refraining from making a murderous choice that she should not have been given the right to make in the first place has NOT committed a praiseworthy act of virtue; she merely acted in accordance with less than the minimum requirement of her obligation as a mother.

As for whether she should keep her job, it is a catch-22. If she loses her job, it comes across as judgmental and unloving, which may make the children feel a disproportionate sense of condemnation over sin, at the exclusion of God’s mercy and grace. If she keeps her job, however, the children could easily view that as flagrant approval of flagrant sin(premarital sex) and therefore cause the children to disproportionately focus on God’s mercy and forgiveness, to the exclusion of their own call to righteousness through cooperation with God’s grace.

So, how do we decide? I see two crucial factors.

1. If there are other aspiring Catholic school teachers in that archdiocese who are waiting in the wings for a teaching position to open up, then by all means, one of them deserves that position ahead of her, provided that they are devout Catholics. The decision needs to be presented, however, as giving the new teacher a chance, as opposed to casting stones at the former teacher.
2. Is she repentant as St. Peter, St. Paul, and others were over their sins; or does she think that there was nothing shameful about getting pregnant out of wedlock, and even more shameful on the grounds that she is a Catholic school teacher?

 

[JReducation]

Should a mother who refrains from murdering her child really be commended for having committed an act of virtue??? The way I see it, that constitutes merely a wash. We need to stop giving creedence to liberal values that conflict with the very Truth of God, and start thinking like Catholics. A mother who risks her life to save her child’s life deserves to be commended for a loving act of virtue. A mother merely refraining from making a murderous choice that she should not have been given the right to make in the first place has NOT committed a praiseworthy act of virtue; she merely acted in accordance with less than the minimum requirement of her obligation as a mother.

As for whether she should keep her job, it is a catch-22. If she loses her job, it comes across as judgmental and unloving, which may make the children feel a disproportionate sense of condemnation over sin, at the exclusion of God’s mercy and grace. If she keeps her job, however, the children could easily view that as flagrant approval of flagrant sin(premarital sex) and therefore cause the children to disproportionately focus on God’s mercy and forgiveness, to the exclusion of their own call to righteousness through cooperation with God’s grace.

So, how do we decide? I see two crucial factors.

1. If there are other aspiring Catholic school teachers in that archdiocese who are waiting in the wings for a teaching position to open up, then by all means, one of them deserves that position ahead of her, provided that they are devout Catholics. The decision needs to be presented, however, as giving the new teacher a chance, as opposed to casting stones at the former teacher.
2. Is she repentant as St. Peter, St. Paul, and others were over their sins; or does she think that there was nothing shameful about getting pregnant out of wedlock, and even more shameful on the grounds that she is a Catholic school teacher?

You’re a happy person?

JR

 

[RachelsAlumni]

You’re a happy person?

JR

Must be a satirical name

 

[leonie]

I’ve seen lots of threads like these at CAF.

Here’s what happens. One school of thought says, “As much as we love the sinner, it’s a bad message for a person of authority to create scandal for young children.”

The other says, “We’re all sinners. Jesus loves sinners. Don’t judge.”

Generally some people on side #2 will also say to the first group, “you people are very unloving and judgemental people.”

Ironic?

 

[PaulinVA]

Well, after reading most of these comments, I am certainly confused about the right thing to do.

I will say, though, that having a single teacher in a Catholic school who is not chaste and becomes pregnant is NOT a good situation. Additionally, by allowing her to keep her job sends the message to the children that there really are not consequences to sexual promiscuity. One can have premarital sex and still work in a Catholic school, of all places?

 

[Carjack1]

Well, after reading most of these comments, I am certainly confused about the right thing to do.

I will say, though, that having a single teacher in a Catholic school who is not chaste and becomes pregnant is NOT a good situation. Additionally, by allowing her to keep her job sends the message to the children that there really are not consequences to sexual promiscuity. One can have premarital sex and still work in a Catholic school, of all places?

If she is a low paid Catholic school teacher who just had a baby. She is paying the consequences by making her life more difficult by not having a spouse to help support the baby. We are all sinners. Nobody is perfect(not even Catholic School teachers) Why should someone else have her job? So we should take away her income that supports her baby?/COLOR]

 

[distracted]

don’t have time to read all posts… hope i am not repeating…

But i think it would be a good way to witness to students concerning the awful sin of abortion… (even if she had never considered that)… Millions of babies are being mudered in not only this country but everywhere… I think it is great that the teacher didn’t cave into the menatliyt of “what will people think?” particularly as she was in a Catholic school. I think it would great if she admitted she made the mistake of fornication but that she didn’t make a worse one…

we can’t hide these kinds of “mistakes” (realities) from our children indefinitely… so should use them to learn something…

 

[Just_Lurking]

Here’s what happens. One school of thought says, “As much as we love the sinner, it’s a bad message for a person of authority to create scandal for young children.”

1 Timothy 3 says:

An overseer, then, must be above reproach, (D)the husband of one wife, (E)temperate, prudent, respectable, (F)hospitable, (G)able to teach,

7And he must (N)have a good reputation with (O)those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and (P)the snare of the devil.

11Women must likewise be dignified, (V)not malicious gossips, but (W)temperate, faithful in all things.

The other says, “We’re all sinners. Jesus loves sinners. Don’t judge.”

Matthew 7 says:

Do not judge so that you will not be judged.

2"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and (B)by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

3"Why do you (C)look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

Matthew 18 says:

21Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, (T)how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to (U)seven times?”

22Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to (V)seventy times seven.

Ironic?

The problem lies in interpreting the Bible with a hermeneutic of contradiction, where one verse or side is chosen to represent the entire truth, to the exclusion of the other verses.

The answer lies in seeing how both sides are part of the truth. Christianity is a journey where we never reach perfection in this lifetime. We do better to move ourselves along the journey rather than harp on the failures of our fellow believers. We should forgive our fellow believers when the sin. Yet, it is true that some believers are further along the journey than others, and that Christian leadership positions should be chosen from those who are further along the journey, because they serve as role models for the rest of us.

 

[Donna_Mc]

Yes, I agree with the others that said this is a teachable moment! When my daughter was 12 and our son was 9 we had the situation where our neighbors who already had a little girl got married. They were at the time expecting their second child.
I did need to then explain things to the kids (with a little more
information for my daughter) in regards to Church teaching
in relation to all this. Anyway, at present this couple now has
three children and I’m happy to say have been attending Mass
regularly with the kids in the past couple of years. Our daughter
who is now 18 babysits for the family.

 

[RachelsAlumni]

1 Timothy 3 says:

An overseer, then, must be above reproach, (D)the husband of one wife, (E)temperate, prudent, respectable, (F)hospitable, (G)able to teach,

7And he must (N)have a good reputation with (O)those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and (P)the snare of the devil.

1 Timothy 3 quoted above is talking about Bishops!

1 Timothy
Chapter 3
1 This saying is trustworthy: 2 whoever aspires to the office of bishop desires a noble task.
2 Therefore, **a bishop **must be irreproachable, married only once, temperate, self-controlled, decent, hospitable, able to teach,
3 not a drunkard, not aggressive, but gentle, not contentious, not a lover of money.

It also says:

(1 Timothy 3:11) Women, similarly, should be dignified, not slanderers, but temperate and faithful in everything.

Slanderers are the same thing as gossips, kinda like what’s going on in this thread. Gossiping about a person completely unknown to us. Gossiping about her sin of fornication, which obviously happened over 9 months ago (that is assuming she was not raped) and more than likely has already been confessed and forgiven.

Prayer of Absolution

God, the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of His Son has reconciled the world to Himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins;

Through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

Do we or do we not believe that our sins are forgiven? Is it right & just for people who don’t even know this woman to maintain her guilt?

If every teacher is to be expected to be free of sin then there would be no teachers. We are a Church of sinners. There’s not one of us who has not sinned. It is only the grace of God that spares us of this sin or worse. The teacher’s sin is more obvious, but so is her joy. Why not focus on the joy rather than on the state of the woman’s soul over 9 months ago?

 

[JReducation]

If a child attends school, Catholic, private or public, there are chances that he or she is going to see different things that are in conflict with our faith. Those should be teachable moments.

In 1995 our pastor left the parish, drove outside of town and shot himself. We had a school with over 800 children. After consulting with Rome and other Church officials, it was decided that the deceased would be burried as a priest. In other words he would be given Christian burrial. I can’t remember if the mass was at the parish or at the Cathedral.

But the case is that 800 school children had to be told that their pastor committed suicide. There was no way to hide the fact. It was in the morning paper. None of our children committed suicide and none of our children remembered Father in a negative way. Children have a better capacity to understand human weakness than we give them credit. They also have a wonderful openness to forgive those who are weak if they are taught properly that God does not condone sin, but that he is merciful and loving.

All of our children were shocked and they moved on.

I beleive that this is another teachable moment about human weakness and God’s mercy.

JR

 

[thomfra]

Well, after reading most of these comments, I am certainly confused about the right thing to do.

I will say, though, that having a single teacher in a Catholic school who is not chaste and becomes pregnant is NOT a good situation. Additionally, by allowing her to keep her job sends the message to the children that there really are not consequences to sexual promiscuity. One can have premarital sex and still work in a Catholic school, of all places?

There are no adverse consequences to pre-marital sex. Promiscuity perhaps (given the increase in risk). But sex before marriage - no worldly consequences I can think of. What happens to your soul when you kick the bucket is something else of course. But that’s a matter of belief.

 

[PaulinVA]

If every teacher is to be expected to be free of sin then there would be no teachers. We are a Church of sinners. There’s not one of us who has not sinned. It is only the grace of God that spares us of this sin or worse. The teacher’s sin is more obvious, but so is her joy. Why not focus on the joy rather than on the state of the woman’s soul over 9 months ago?

Why should people pay for Catholic school tuition if what occurs is no different than what happens in the public school?

Try to teach your kids that premarital sex is wrong when one of their favorite teachers obviously did have premarital sex and “nothing bad happened”.

Of course we are all sinners and are forgiven through the Sacrament of Reconciliation. But there are temporal consequences to sin. If I rob a bank, I will be fired from my job. If I violate something in our “Core Values”, I could be fired. Why is a Catholic School teacher any different?

I guess the question is which scandal is greater - having an unwed mother on staff or firing an unwed mother? Maybe the honorable thing for her to do would be to resign?

 

[thomfra]

I guess the question is which scandal is greater - having an unwed mother on staff or firing an unwed mother? Maybe the honorable thing for her to do would be to resign?

Alternatively those who have such a major problem with it could take their kids out of school.