Unmarried Catholic school teacher has baby

[CreatioNova]

WHAT THE …???..I can’t believe people are even discussing this. …Instead of asking whether she should be dismissed, have you thought about asking whether she needs any help looking after the baby!

If that remark is addressed to me I never once called for or suggested she should be dismissed from her job. I said I was left wondering if the school shouldn’t be taking a stronger line with the moral examples set by it’s teachers. I was uncomfortable with the idea of the baby being brought into the classes for the girls to go loopy over. I believed it unwise at the time, and I still do. The school should not have allowed her to do this, in my opinion.

To all the other contributers - wow - some really interesting food for thought.

To answer a few of the questions posed around which a lot of speculation then arose in various answers

• She is very well paid - I know what her grade gets, with additional duties, and it’s a long long way from being ‘‘poorly paid’’.
• She is living with the father of the child and has no plans to get married any time soon.
• I will not be taking the matter up formally with the school - The principle and Bishop and board will have prayed and had their discussions and made any decisions they were required to in the situation. Nothing I say will be allowed to make any difference. And rightly so - I’m not in charge of catholic education in the school.

edit - if I could be fired from my job for being a sinner - I would never work again

• I was and still remain uncomfortable with the fact that she brought her baby to class.
• We have indeed used this as a teaching moment for the children.

 

[CreatioNova]

Why burn brain cells trying to figure out what others have already figured out?

JR

I can only speak for myself, but some people like figuring things out for themselves - even if all they get is a migraine at the end of it

 

[JReducation]

I can only speak for myself, but some people like figuring things out for themselves - even if all they get is a migraine at the end of it

If you were not seeking assistance or advice, why did you even bother bringing this case to the attention of the entire CAF community? Your signature says that you’re reading the Rule of St. Benedict and applying it to your life. Did you skip the chapter on silence?

What satisfaction did you get out of it?

If this is all a matter of mental gymnastics to you, it’s not to many of us. As to figuring things out for yourself, even if you get a migraine out of it, that’s the silliest statement I’ve ever heard.

That’s why God has given us a Church and people within the Church who know more about these things than the average person.

I thought you really wanted help on this issue. I even went as far as calling the Sisters of Life and asking them if they helped on these kinds of issues. They directed me to their website and told me which address from their website to share with you.

I commiserated with you as one father to another.

I’m ticked off, really ticked off.

God blesss you and pray for me.

JR

 

[PaulinVA]

• She is very well paid - I know what her grade gets, with additional duties, and it’s a long long way from being ‘‘poorly paid’’.
• She is living with the father of the child and has no plans to get married any time soon.
• I will not be taking the matter up formally with the school - The principle and Bishop and board will have prayed and had their discussions and made any decisions they were required to in the situation. Nothing I say will be allowed to make any difference. And rightly so - I’m not in charge of catholic education in the school.
• We have indeed used this as a teaching moment for the children.

Wow. I am dumbfounded.

 

[thomfra]

If you were not seeking assistance or advice, why did you even bother bringing this case to the attention of the entire CAF community? Your signature says that you’re reading the Rule of St. Benedict and applying it to your life. Did you skip the chapter on silence?

What satisfaction did you get out of it?

If this is all a matter of mental gymnastics to you, it’s not to many of us. As to figuring things out for yourself, even if you get a migraine out of it, that’s the silliest statement I’ve ever heard.

That’s why God has given us a Church and people within the Church who know more about these things than the average person.

I thought you really wanted help on this issue. I even went as far as calling the Sisters of Life and asking them if they helped on these kinds of issues. They directed me to their website and told me which address from their website to share with you.

I commiserated with you as one father to another.

I’m ticked off, really ticked off.

God blesss you and pray for me.

JR

Wow! Take a chill pill.

It’s an internet discussion forum. People discuss things because they like to have interaction with people.

Take 10 deep breaths.

 

[PaulinVA]

Allow me to demonstrate one more example of how the issue of sin and scandal is properly handled.

Brother Alessandro, OFM Cap. is now believed to be in Heaven and there is a move to present his cause for canonization.

When Jim Townsend came out of jail after many years, for first degree murder of his wife and unborn child, our friars welcomed him. …

Maybe women like this one can turn out to be like Brother Alessandro and Brother Jim.

Everyone can be a witness to the Gospel in some way or another, if they want to do so and we give them a chance. Maybe we should take the example of St. Francis and the Sisters of Life.

Why burn brain cells trying to figure out what others have already figured out?

JR, yes, people can turn around their lives, repent, and increase in holiness. OF COURSE they can.

We are not talking about that. WE are talking about examples to little children. We are talking about employment contracts.

The Church really seems unwilling to discipline anyone, doesn’t it? It’s what created the sex abuse scandal. Bishops believing that if you forgive someone they can go right back to their old jobs. I’m not equating this to the sex abuse scandal, but it seems the thinking hasn’t changed.

So, they don’t fire this lady living in sin with her boyfriend and child. Next week, one of the teachers starts talking about Jesus is ONE of the ways to the Father, not the only Way. That is contrary to Catholic teaching. She refuses to stop. They attempt to fire her, but she shows that the “following Catholic teaching” clause is not evenly applied to all situations. What a mess that would be.

 

[peary1]

WHAT THE …???

I can’t believe people are even discussing this. The woman made a mistake, she kept the baby, we must, in charity, assume that she has repented.

If she does not marry, she has condemned her child as well as herself to a life of poverty.

She decided to go on doing a low-paid job in order to pass the faith on to your children, even though that must be extremely difficult with no spousal income. What do you expect?

It is apparent that she is not equipped to teach in a Catholic school. She does not need a low-paying job; she can very well teach in a public school where the pay is much higher and would be to her benefit as well as that of her child.

We are none of us perfect. Maybe the male teachers in the school masturbate, maybe some married couples use contraception, maybe some members of the school board run businesses where they are defrauding their workers (far worse than any sexual sin!)

We do not know if there are any male teachers at that school who masturbate; we don’t know how many parents of the girls who go there use artificial contraception; in fact, we don’t know how many in the student body use artificial contraception. We don’t know if any members of the school board (if there is one) defrauds their workers. These ‘maybe’s’ are totally irrelevant to the situation.

Maybe some parents don’t even believe in God but only send their kids to that school because the exam results are better than the public school.

Maybe some parents do believe in God, are practicing Catholic Christians, and send their kids to that school because the exam results are better than the public school, and perhaps less temptation exists there. Again, it is irrelevant.

If we go around thinking about all the bad things that other people might be up to, we will end up in despair and cutting ourselves off from all ties of Christian love.

**The original poster did not mention anything ‘bad’ that other people might be up to. The fact is, the teacher was single, she became pregnant, she went through with her pregnancy. That was very noble of her, and it sent the correct message to the student body that an unborn life is precious. **

The question I have is to whether or not the teacher flaunted it in the face of both administration, faculty and students, and thought nothing about the fact that she was a single parent and was not in a rush to get married so that the man can provide for both of them.

Instead of asking whether she should be dismissed, have you thought about asking whether she needs any help looking after the baby!

That is what her immediate family is for, and, hopefully, they will encourage her to place the child up for adoption because it’s the right thing to do.

 

[CreatioNova]

If you were not seeking assistance or advice, why did you even bother bringing this case to the attention of the entire CAF community? Your signature says that you’re reading the Rule of St. Benedict and applying it to your life. Did you skip the chapter on silence?

I was seeking assistance that’s why I posted here. I was troubled by the whole episode and came here to get peoples views and opinions and from them help me work out my feelings areound the issue and what I should do, if anything. And as my other post said, it has helped, I got loads to think about, and I resolved the issue as best I can for myself so it’s not eating me anymore, and I used the experience as a great and wonderful teaching moment for my two girls, about respecting life, loving each other, the consequence of sin, the pain and hardship breaking God’s laws can cause even after we have been forgiven, and why chastity is such a precious gift. All said in language couched to get through to them of course as they are very young. The responses here, yours included, helped me do this.

What satisfaction did you get out of it?

See the above!

If this is all a matter of mental gymnastics to you, it’s not to many of us.

No, it caused me a great deal of discomfort on a moral and intellectual and emotional level.

As to figuring things out for yourself, even if you get a migraine out of it, that’s the silliest statement I’ve ever heard.

Yeah well that’s me - really stupid !

That’s why God has given us a Church and people within the Church who know more about these things than the average person.

And thank God for them, yourself included. But it does not preclude people going to the experts, asking the questions, listening to the answers, and informing their own conscience then making a decision. I didn’t know what or of I should do anything. I was never confronte with this situation before. I listened respectfully to all the replies. I digested them and they helped me inform my conscience and helped me make a decision. Eg, some said I should confront the principle - this was my ‘‘instinct’’ too. But having read the replied and prayed, and talked to some other people, my conscience being better informed, I decided that I dont need to do anything but talk to my own children. The priest, principle and school board will have ALL their facts, and have obviously agreed that she could bring the child to school as she wouldnt be allowed to without permission. I still think it was the wrong thing to do but having worked it out for myself after the wonderful (name removed by moderator)ut from yourselves, it’s not eating me up anymore in that way. I am now easy with the situation, but dont agree with it - call it obedience to the decision of the schools principle and priest if you like !! But someone TELLING me to feel like this would never work for me, I had to get there myself, if you see what I mean. If that’s silly - well call me Billy Bunter !!!

I thought you really wanted help on this issue.

I did.

I even went as far as calling the Sisters of Life and asking them if they helped on these kinds of issues. They directed me to their website and told me which address from their website to share with you.

Thank you so very much for doing this. I never heard of them before your (name removed by moderator)ut and I am very grateful to you for taking the trouble. They are indeed a wonderful group of people.

I commiserated with you as one father to another.

I picked that up from your posts and Im grateful.

I’m ticked off, really ticked off.

I’m sorry that my ‘‘quip’’ with a joke and a smiley at the end set you off like this. This was never my intention and I apologise. I started a thread on another forum about the catholics being completely dry and humourless, and how it feels like there is no room for light heartedness or humour in the all consuming business of salvation. Seems like Im right. I worked for a long time with dead people, including very badly decomposed bodies, horrific fatal injuries, and remnants of bodies recovered from accident and murder scenes. In addition to that there’s then having to deal with the families. Apart from prayer, the only thing that can get you through the day is a wicked sense of humour. I now work in a different department, doing a different job, but I never lost the inappropriate sense of humour or the mistimed ‘‘quip’’. I apologise to you for upsetting you and ticking you off. That was never my intention and I am very grateful to you for the effort you made and for sgaring your thoughts which, along with others here, helped me deal with this issue.

God blesss you and pray for me.

I will, and you remember me in your prayers too. God knows I need them!

 

[CreatioNova]

I tried to edit my original reply but I was times out - just two more comments I wanted to make please:

Your signature says that you’re reading the Rule of St. Benedict and applying it to your life. Did you skip the chapter on silence?

A bit of an unnecessary and unhelpful comment don’t you think?

As to figuring things out for yourself, even if you get a migraine out of it, that’s the silliest statement I’ve ever heard.

So, when people intelligent enough to do degrees in philosophy and morality and law and other very complicated wonderful stuff, they just write out stuff they read in books that others have figured out before them, and get an honours degree, or an MA or a Ph.D? Nothing to figure out for themselves as others have figured it all out before them! Why does the church have lawyers and Liturgucal and Morality experts that always seem to be fully occupied? Do we not have to read, absorb, think, pray, consult, and then come to out own conclusions. Granted on the subject of whats right and wrong the Church has worked it all out for us and tells us what we must do, but there are times when the individual must come to their own conclusion in all good conscience. That’s all I meant by my remark. I’m that kind of person. I accept the churchs teachings and rulings, but I cant go to the cathecism and get the chapter on ‘‘dealing with your feelings when an unmarried teacher brings her baby into your kids classroom’’!!! I had to give it some thought, and am grateful for the (name removed by moderator)ut off all those who contributed here.

 

[JReducation]

CreatioNova

I appreciate your last two posts more than you think. At least I’m clearer now on where you’re coming from. I apologize if I showed any disrespect or lack of charity toward you.

Again, as a parent, I understand your preoccupation and concern for your little girls (I believe you said there are more than one).

I am also glad that the responses that you received on this thread were helpful and I’m glad to have been part of that group.

As you said, these things are teaching moments. There is a great deal of grace that can come from those teaching moments.

It’s funny that we’re on this topic. I just happen to be watching Father Frank Pavone, as I’m writing this post. He and his associate are speaking about a the whole life issue. His associate just happened to chime in with, “pregnant women need the support of the Church.”

I know that it’s difficult to assimilate this at the practical level when one has children, but as he (Fr. Pavone) put it, life is above all other moral concerns. Dismissing a teacher or any church employee for being an unwed mother creates a serious conflict for any pastor or bishop.

The policy is always to choose the higher good, not the less of two evils, for we may never choose evil. When put on the spot like this, 1) protecting the young from exposure to this kind of situation and 2) encouraging unwed mothers to have their babies instead of abort them, the higher good is the latter, even though it’s a difficult choice.

Maybe this is the way that we have to teach it to our children using words that they will understand. You said that you tried that and I’m glad that you made that choice and I’m sure that God will bless you for it.

By the way, keep the informatio on the Sisters of Life handy. You never know who may need to reach them.

Please pray for me.

Fraternally,

JR

 

[CreatioNova]

I apologize if I showed any disrespect or lack of charity toward you.

shakes hands No apology needed. I read a lot of your posts and have a lot of respect for your knowledge and position on matters and you personally, because of your well balanced and well thought out posts give me a lot to think about.

Dismissing a teacher or any church employee for being an unwed mother creates a serious conflict for any pastor or bishop.

I quipped that if I was in a job I could be dismissed from for sinning I would never work again. From reading the (name removed by moderator)ut here I’ve come to be able to accept the decision of the school and church. I was also able to see more clearly through the fumes of my own indignation and I grateful to you all.

The policy is always to choose the higher good, not the less of two evils, for we may never choose evil.

**This is why I read your posts. You have a great turn of phrase ! **

By the way, keep the informatio on the Sisters of Life handy. You never know who may need to reach them.

Repeating myself I know but I never heard of them till you gave that information and the fact you even contacted them for more information, I am truely truely grateful to you.

**You are in my prayers and keep up the good work **

 

[leonie]

Expecting the teachers of your children to strive to live a moral life is not “judging lest you be judged.” It is normal prudence.

In this case, the teacher wasn’t raped or committed a sin that she repented of, but is still living with a man–by the op’s own report.

I think there is more charity being extended to the adult in this case than the innocent children she influences.

There are plenty of nonteaching jobs out there.

Plus, this woman is in grave sin–mortal sin if she’s full knowledgable–hopefully, a Catholic school teacher is!

Where is our compassion for her soul? Why continue to pretend that she is not endangering her soul? If she was dismissed from her job, would it compel her to reform her life?

Most Catholic schools are fortunate in that they do require their staff to hold to Catholic moral teachings-- a big advantage over public school!

I’m so glad that we homeschool.

Love doesn’t mean accepting everything someone does. I can take a meal to an unmarried mom, mentor her, babysit for her, but still not want her to be role model for my child.

 

[distracted]

Should a mother who refrains from murdering her child really be commended for having committed an act of virtue??? The way I see it, that constitutes merely a wash. We need to stop giving creedence to liberal values that conflict with the very Truth of God, and start thinking like Catholics. A mother who risks her life to save her child’s life deserves to be commended for a loving act of virtue. A mother merely refraining from making a murderous choice that she should not have been given the right to make in the first place has NOT committed a praiseworthy act of virtue; she merely acted in accordance with less than the minimum requirement of her obligation as a mother.

As for whether she should keep her job, it is a catch-22. If she loses her job, it comes across as judgmental and unloving, which may make the children feel a disproportionate sense of condemnation over sin, at the exclusion of God’s mercy and grace. If she keeps her job, however, the children could easily view that as flagrant approval of flagrant sin(premarital sex) and therefore cause the children to disproportionately focus on God’s mercy and forgiveness, to the exclusion of their own call to righteousness through cooperation with God’s grace.

So, how do we decide? I see two crucial factors.

1. If there are other aspiring Catholic school teachers in that archdiocese who are waiting in the wings for a teaching position to open up, then by all means, one of them deserves that position ahead of her, provided that they are devout Catholics. The decision needs to be presented, however, as giving the new teacher a chance, as opposed to casting stones at the former teacher.
2. Is she repentant as St. Peter, St. Paul, and others were over their sins; or does she think that there was nothing shameful about getting pregnant out of wedlock, and even more shameful on the grounds that she is a Catholic school teacher?

i see your point(s) but i don’t think she should lose her job. If we all lost jobs over our sins, we would all be unemployed. I think she should explain to her students that she made a serious mistake, committed a mortal sin, has repented (confessed) and also that she is suffering the consequences of her wrong act (having to raise the child alone, etc…).,. It would be a good way to explain to children why NOT to do the same thing… (Of course, i am saying this not knowing the age of the children she teaches… )

 

[tabsie3210]

Indeed so Swan, but as the father of a very impressionable child who attends the school, I cant help wondering if, when confronted with issues about sex outside mariage and pregnancy, she will hold up Miss X as an example of how its just fine, since Miss X is well educated, earns good money, has a good lifestyle, has a respected job in the commnity, and look, she had sex outside marriage, got pregnant, had a baby, and everyone just thought how cute !!! As a father I cant help wondering and worrying about these things.

I guess it depends on Miss X’s attitude about her own sin. Like, “I’m well educated, have a good lifestyle, am respected in the community, but look, I sinned. I have to bear the hardships that come with that sin - raising up this child - but I acknowledge my sins, repent, and will work hard to please the Father in the future.”

In that instance, where you see a basically good person admit to her own faults and her need for God to guide her and for Christ to wash away the stain of her sin, and if you see and know that she is working to avoid the near occasion of sin, then this is a positive experience for the girls she interacts with. The important thing is that she doesn’t glorify her position as a mother over the struggles of being a sinner.

On the other hand, if she’s not making that kind of effort, then I woudln’t be crazy about my kids going to school there, either, if I had kids.

 

[childofmary1143]

I would like to voice an opinion on this:

There seems to be a lot of assumptions being made here:

She is unrepentant.
She repented.

Unless any of the posters know the teacher in question and have talked to her about it, nobody here knows.

The Principal is the one who can handle this:

If she is truly sorry for having a baby out of wedlock, and will say that she made a mistake, then I don’t have a problem with her bringing the baby.

If however, she isn’t sorry for it, then she shouldn’t be allowed to bring her baby to school.

Also I don’t think she should be fired.

 

[kaygee]

**The following is from the student handbook at the local Catholic high school. It was written for students, but I believe it is a good policy and could equally apply to teachers. In this fallen world, sin happens. Ideally repentance follows. But in no way should the sin be celebrated or flaunted in public. Of course the child is a blessing, but Miss Teacher’s child should not be brought to the school. The young (even teenage) girls can get a starry-eyed baby-doll impression of the miracle of new life, and may wbe tempted to imitate Miss Teacher’s example.

Years down the road, Ms. Teacher’s child could come to school, even as a student, but by then most of the kids who were aware of her mother’s indiscretion will have moved on, or be old enough to realize how very tough it is for a single woman to raise a child on her own.

*"Pregnancy: ***As a ministry of the Catholic Church, the school supports and promotes the Church’s
position that sexual relations are reserved for married persons. The school also supports and
promotes the Church’s position with regard to the sanctity of and the right to human life. Male or
female students who become involved in a pregnancy must adhere to the following guidelines in
order to remain enrolled in school:
1. As soon as possible after learning of the pregnancy, the student and a parent will meet with
the principal to inform the school of the situation.
2. A female student will obtain a medical statement from her doctor giving her due date and her
medical fitness to remain in school. The statement must include any medical problems of
which the school should be aware.
3. Female and male students must follow a bona fide program of counseling which their church
or other religious support agency offers. The name of the counselor must be given to the
principal.
4. During the time of the pregnancy, female and male students may not participate in any cocurricular
or public activities. This includes athletics, field trips, service programs, etc.
*6. After the birth, the students must schedule an interview with the principal. They may not *bring the baby to school or any school activity."

 

[mlchance]

Every Catholic school in the Galveston-Houston Archdiocese has a “morality clause” in their contracts. I’d be surprised if every Catholic school wasn’t the same. Getting pregnant out-of-wedlock and/or living unmarried with one’s sexual partner could easily be seen as constituting violations of said clause. If I were her principal, I would most likely at the very least not offer her a contract for the new school year.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[RachelsAlumni]

Every Catholic school in the Galveston-Houston Archdiocese has a “morality clause” in their contracts. I’d be surprised if every Catholic school wasn’t the same. Getting pregnant out-of-wedlock and/or living unmarried with one’s sexual partner could easily be seen as constituting violations of said clause. If I were her principal, I would most likely at the very least not offer her a contract for the new school year.

Mark, then you might find yourself facing down the ACLU in an anti-discrimination lawsuit i.e. McCusker vs. St. Rose of Lima School.

McCukser was a single Catholic layperson teaching preschool at St. Rose of Lima School in Brooklyn, NY. When she became pregnant she decided to keep her baby and immediately informed her employer, St. Rose of Lima school, early in the school year.

The school – backed by the Brooklyn Diocese, which oversees Catholic churches in the New York City boroughs of Brooklyn and Queens – fired her.

“The school requires its teachers to convey the faith, to convey the gospel values and Christian traditions of the Catholic faith,” said Frank DeRosa, a spokesman for the Diocese of Brooklyn.

The teachers’ handbook clearly states that teachers “must convey the teachings of the Catholic faith by his or her words and actions,” De Rosa added, and by having out-of-wedlock sex McCusker was not conveying the teachings of the faith.

McCusker and the New York Civil Liberties Union are suing the school, claiming gender discrimination.

“Michelle McCusker was fired from her job as a pre-K teacher because she was pregnant,” said Donna Lieberman, an attorney with the New York Civil Liberties Union. “This is a policy that the church applies to women but not to men…Only women employees are subject to being fired for being pregnant or having engaged in non-marital sex,” she added. “They don’t apply that policy to male employees. That’s gender discrimination. It has nothing to do with religion.”

In a similar case in 2003, the NYCLU filed a complaint with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission on behalf of the unmarried pregnant director of an afterschool program in Buffalo demoted by the Catholic charity that employed her. In that case, the EEOC found that the charity had violated federal anti-discrimination laws.

There were even some ProLife group siding with the fired unwed mother:

Serrin Foster, president of Feminists for Life, talks about McCusker at -]anti-abortion /-][pro-life] rallies, saying taking away a woman’s job and income for being pregnant is anti-life.

“If you take away the resources, you could unintentionally drive a woman to having an abortion,” said Foster.

“It is not pro-life to take away the resources and support that women need and deserve to bring children into this world,” Foster says. "The appropriate response for the employer when they found out she was pregnant, is to say, ‘Congratulations,’ and, ‘How can I help?’ "

A 2004 survey by the Guttmacher Institute, a research organization that supports abortion rights but is cited by both sides in the abortion wars as having reliable data, indicated that 73 percent of those seeking an abortion were doing so because they could not afford to have a baby.

“We have to systematically eliminate the reasons that drive women to abortions, and the root causes are lack of resources and lack of support,” Foster says. “Women deserve both.”

(source: abcnews.go.com/WNT/Story?id=1641467&page=1)

As a person who works with post abortive women I am in agreement with Serrin Foster.

IMO a woman who chooses life over abortion better coverys “the teachings of the Catholic faith by his or her words and actions,” more clearly and visibly than a person in a similar situation who uses contraception or chooses abortion.

I think the issue of choosing life should hold priority over the lesser issue of sex outside marriage.

 

[robert_Ian_Will]

We have partnered gay principals of Cathlolic schools in England…and the bishops can’t do anything!

 

[mlchance]

Mark, then you might find yourself facing down the ACLU in an anti-discrimination lawsuit i.e. McCusker vs. St. Rose of Lima School.

Wouldn’t happen. No one has a right to have their contract renewed, at least in Texas. A Catholic school teacher – any Catholic school teacher – who violates his or her contract should not be re-hired.

– Mark L. Chance.