Unmarried Catholic school teacher has baby

[DL82]

WHAT THE …???

I can’t believe people are even discussing this. The woman made a mistake, she kept the baby, we must, in charity, assume that she has repented. She decided to go on doing a low-paid job in order to pass the faith on to your children, even though that must be extremely difficult with no spousal income. What do you expect?

We are none of us perfect. Maybe the male teachers in the school masturbate, maybe some married couples use contraception, maybe some members of the school board run businesses where they are defrauding their workers (far worse than any sexual sin!) Maybe some parents don’t even believe in God but only send their kids to that school because the exam results are better than the public school. If we go around thinking about all the bad things that other people might be up to, we will end up in despair and cutting ourselves off from all ties of Christian love.

Instead of asking whether she should be dismissed, have you thought about asking whether she needs any help looking after the baby!

 

[thomfra]

WHAT THE …???

I can’t believe people are even discussing this. The woman made a mistake, she kept the baby, we must, in charity, assume that she has repented. She decided to go on doing a low-paid job in order to pass the faith on to your children, even though that must be extremely difficult with no spousal income. What do you expect?

We are none of us perfect. Maybe the male teachers in the school masturbate, maybe some married couples use contraception, maybe some members of the school board run businesses where they are defrauding their workers (far worse than any sexual sin!) Maybe some parents don’t even believe in God but only send their kids to that school because the exam results are better than the public school. If we go around thinking about all the bad things that other people might be up to, we will end up in despair and cutting ourselves off from all ties of Christian love.

Instead of asking whether she should be dismissed, have you thought about asking whether she needs any help looking after the baby!

great post! At last a voice of reason.

 

[PaulinVA]

DL82, your argument seems to be that since everyone sins, we can’t require any standards among the teachers, so let’s hire anyone who comes through the door.

I’m not buying it.

 

[Carjack1]

:clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: I completely agree with you. As far as having standards for the teachers, let’s hope they repent when they sin

WHAT THE …???

I can’t believe people are even discussing this. The woman made a mistake, she kept the baby, we must, in charity, assume that she has repented. She decided to go on doing a low-paid job in order to pass the faith on to your children, even though that must be extremely difficult with no spousal income. What do you expect?

We are none of us perfect. Maybe the male teachers in the school masturbate, maybe some married couples use contraception, maybe some members of the school board run businesses where they are defrauding their workers (far worse than any sexual sin!) Maybe some parents don’t even believe in God but only send their kids to that school because the exam results are better than the public school. If we go around thinking about all the bad things that other people might be up to, we will end up in despair and cutting ourselves off from all ties of Christian love.

Instead of asking whether she should be dismissed, have you thought about asking whether she needs any help looking after the baby!

 

[armywife]

What are the school policies? Since they let her stay on through her entire pregnancy, then I don’t think it would have been right to dismiss her after the fact. I do think she should have given some thought to bringing her baby to school.

This happened in our high school. The teacher told the administration early on and the teacher was let go at the end of the school year before she began showing. None of the students knew why so it was a non-issue. At our school teachers are told of the moral standards they will have while at the school. This happen and no one is judging her, but there are also standards that the school is trying to teach.

 

[peary1]

The school my daughter attends is a catholic school. It is generally well run and fairly strict and has at its heart the teachings of the catholic church running through the curriculum and school activities. I posted elsewhere on another thread a troublesome issue now arising with school assemblies beng held in the church.

However, I have now discovered that one of the teachers, who is unmarried, has just had a baby. She brought the baby into school for the girls to see and go gaga over.

All very well and good but now Im wondering what kind of example is this setting to the girls. On the one hand they are being taught catholic principles and morals, and particularly the older group about love and sex and relationships, and then they get presented with a beautiful bonnie baby by an unmarried teacher they all look up to and respect.

Im now left wondering if the school should take a much stronger line with the moral example set by the teachers in the school, but no doubt they would run foul of some sex discrimination law or other

A similar event happened at my niece’s high school. After the teacher took a maternity leave of absence, the administration would not renew her contract, so she’s out.

 

[cargau]

All this talk about the gospel, forgiveness, etc really is not in question here. Of course we should be concerned for her and we have no right to condemn her. But, she is not a cashier at the local McDonalds. She has a role as a spiritual guide to the children that attend that school. She assumed that role the day she signed on.

When anyone publically behaves in a manner that could be perceived as being scandalous (especially to younsters) she must be removed. Many have written that we should have compassion for the teacher. How 'bout a little compassion for the kids!

Since, she has made it known to the students that she had this baby, the “teaching” moment has already presented itself. Parents can discuss these matters as deemed appropriate. Of course, she could have remained silent but she chose to bring the baby in and do a little show and tell.

Sorry, I don’t buy the “Jesus forgave sinners, so we have to excuse everyone’s actions” line. There are and should be consequences to all of our actions.

 

[leonie]

1 Timothy 3 says:

An overseer, then, must be above reproach, (D)the husband of one wife, (E)temperate, prudent, respectable, (F)hospitable, (G)able to teach,

7And he must (N)have a good reputation with (O)those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and (P)the snare of the devil.

11Women must likewise be dignified, (V)not malicious gossips, but (W)temperate, faithful in all things.

Matthew 7 says:

Do not judge so that you will not be judged.

2"For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and (B)by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you.

3"Why do you (C)look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye?

Matthew 18 says:

21Then Peter came and said to Him, “Lord, (T)how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to (U)seven times?”

22Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to (V)seventy times seven.

The problem lies in interpreting the Bible with a hermeneutic of contradiction, where one verse or side is chosen to represent the entire truth, to the exclusion of the other verses.

The answer lies in seeing how both sides are part of the truth. Christianity is a journey where we never reach perfection in this lifetime. We do better to move ourselves along the journey rather than harp on the failures of our fellow believers. We should forgive our fellow believers when the sin. Yet, it is true that some believers are further along the journey than others, and that Christian leadership positions should be chosen from those who are further along the journey, because they serve as role models for the rest of us.

Excellent post. I completely agree.

 

[RachelsAlumni]

Why should people pay for Catholic school tuition if what occurs is no different than what happens in the public school?

What is taught is different than what is taught in public schools. The quality of education is better. That’s the difference. You will find sinners in both.

Try to teach your kids that premarital sex is wrong when one of their favorite teachers obviously did have premarital sex and “nothing bad happened”.

It’s been pointed out in this forum by several great posts in this thread that this is indeed a teacheable moment for parents.

Of course we are all sinners and are forgiven through the Sacrament of Reconciliation. But there are temporal consequences to sin. If I rob a bank, I will be fired from my job. If I violate something in our “Core Values”, I could be fired. Why is a Catholic School teacher any different?

Being a single mother or raising a child in a single parent houshold is sufficient consequences.

 

[PaulinVA]

What is taught is different than what is taught in public schools. The quality of education is better. That’s the difference. You will find sinners in both.

What is taught might be different, but the standards and actions seem to be the same, huh?

It’s been pointed out in this forum by several great posts in this thread that this is indeed a teacheable moment for parents.

Teachable, indeed. “Honey, I know that even your teachers don’t follow the rules, and nothing happens to them, but I expect you to follow Catholic teaching”

Being a single mother or raising a child in a single parent houshold is sufficient consequences.

We obviously disagree.

 

[JReducation]

DL82, your argument seems to be that since everyone sins, we can’t require any standards among the teachers, so let’s hire anyone who comes through the door.

I’m not buying it.

I’m not sure what diocese in VA you’re in, but what would you have done with the pastor who committed suicide, denied him Christian burial as a priest so as not to set a bad example for the 800 school children?

This happened in VA and it was very public.

JR

 

[PaulinVA]

JREducation, you are conflating a reading of canon law with the application of an employment contract. They are different.

Canon 1184 says that the local Bishop has the final say on whether someone is granted a Catholic burial. I’ll go with his judgment.

As to the application of the morals clause in an employment contract - well, I’ve let you know my opinion on that.

 

[JReducation]

JREducation, you are conflating a reading of canon law with the application of an employment contract. They are different.

Canon 1184 says that the local Bishop has the final say on whether someone is granted a Catholic burial. I’ll go with his judgment.

As to the application of the morals clause in an employment contract - well, I’ve let you know my opinion on that.

That’s fair.

While this woman was pregnant, it was obviously no secret to anyone. We can safely assume that the diocese is comfortable with the principal’s and pastor’s decision to allow her to stay on the faculty.

Let’s go with the diocese’ judgment.

JR

 

[PaulinVA]

That’s fair.

While this woman was pregnant, it was obviously no secret to anyone. We can safely assume that the diocese is comfortable with the principal’s and pastor’s decision to allow her to stay on the faculty.

Let’s go with the diocese’ judgment.

JR

Ah, not so fast!

While I do not rightly have a say in something reserved for the local ordinary, I surely have a say in the application of something affecting a school at the local level.

Since you like to posit similar situations, would you fire the Episcopalian teaching in the local Catholic school who traveled to California over the weekend and married their same sex partner and brought the “wedding” pictures in to show her students?

I hope you see the similarity.

 

[JReducation]

Ah, not so fast!

While I do not rightly have a say in something reserved for the local ordinary, I surely have a say in the application of something affecting a school at the local level.

Since you like to posit similar situations, would you fire the Episcopalian teaching in the local Catholic school who traveled to California over the weekend and married their same sex partner and brought the “wedding” pictures in to show her students?

I hope you see the similarity.

From the perspective of moral theology there is a difference here. To have conceived a child outside of marriage implies an isolated act ths is objectively sinful. We do not know if this person is livig in sin. Because we don’t have that information.

In the case of the same-sex couple, they are living in sin. It is not an isolated act that is sinful and could have been absolved in the confession.

A person living in sin in a public fashion is in a different situation than a person who commits a sin and it’s now over and done with, especially if there was absolution.

See what I mean?

JR

 

[JReducation]

I would encourage anyone who is struggling with this question to contact the Sistes of Life. This is their area of expertice. They have some very definitive pastoral guidelines on dealing with such situations. They are a reliable source of guidance.

SISTERS OF LIFE
HUMAN LIFE ISSUES LIBRARY AND RESOURCE CENTER
1955 Needham Avenue
Bronx, New York 10466
(718) 881-7286 Tel
(718) 881-7287 Fax

Why are we burning brain cells tyring to figure out something that has already been answered for us by the Sisters? Their pastoral direction on such questions is quickly becoming the norm for the Catholic Church in the United States. They are trained theologians, registered nurses, social workers, physicians and educators on issues regarding life, death and pastoral policies. Thank God we have them.

JR

 

[PaulinVA]

JR, I agree the situations aren’t exactly equal. But, you are assuming that the teacher’s premarital sex was repented of and has stopped. We don’t know that.

If the baby out of wedlock was not enough to void the employment contract, then bringing in the “evidence” certainly is.

That is what I was getting at in my example. Bringing in the baby can create great confusion among the children, since it makes the sin real - they can see the evidence that a sin was committed and there are no consequences. Just like the teacher who would bring in evidence of her gay “wedding”.

Babies are certainly good, but it’s objectively wrong when they are created out of wedlock. Weddings are good, but not when attempted by two people of the same gender.

I’m not saying the woman and her baby should be kicked to the curb and forgotten. The school could continue her health coverage until the beginning of the next school year. The school could help her find other employment.

It’s just wrong for her to continue employment at the school.

 

[JReducation]

JR, I agree the situations aren’t exactly equal. But, you are assuming that the teacher’s premarital sex was repented of and has stopped. We don’t know that.

If the baby out of wedlock was not enough to void the employment contract, then bringing in the “evidence” certainly is.

That is what I was getting at in my example. Bringing in the baby can create great confusion among the children, since it makes the sin real - they can see the evidence that a sin was committed and there are no consequences. Just like the teacher who would bring in evidence of her gay “wedding”.

Babies are certainly good, but it’s objectively wrong when they are created out of wedlock. Weddings are good, but not when attempted by two people of the same gender.

I’m not saying the woman and her baby should be kicked to the curb and forgotten. The school could continue her health coverage until the beginning of the next school year. The school could help her find other employment.

It’s just wrong for her to continue employment at the school.

As I said above, we’re burning brain cells in something that has been discussed by the Sisters of Life, whose ministry is to clarify these issues for the Church.

Write to them and you may get a completely different perspective on these policies.

I know that they have helped many diocese form poicies on these issues and their position is very clear. If the unwed mother is not living in a state of sin, the Church has an obligation to forgive and move on. Unless one can prove it, there is nothing more to do than move on.

But you may want to write the Sisters about these policies, because they are the national advisors on such policies for the Catholic Church and are better trained than any poster on this forum.

JR

 

[JReducation]

Allow me to demonstrate one more example of how the issue of sin and scandal is properly handled.

The Capuchin Franciscan Friars were founded by St. Francis of Assisi to preach conversion and repentence. Their rule and the teachings of our holy father Francis were very clear. None of our three orders were to turn a repentent sinner away or hide him/her.

When Alessandro Serenelli who murdered Maria Goretti came out of jail, many religious communities refused to accept him, because of the potential scandal. Our friars welcomed him.

Brother Alessandro, OFM Cap. is now believed to be in Heaven and there is a move to present his cause for canonization.

When Jim Townsend came out of jail after many years, for first degree murder of his wife and unborn child, our friars welcomed him. Today, Brother Jim, OFM Cap writes books, gives talks, preaches retreats, forms younger friars to the Franciscan way of life and is a very holy friar.

The Franciscans have never kept it a secret that these friars are repentant convicted murderers whose example is saving many souls.

Maybe women like this one can turn out to be like Brother Alessandro and Brother Jim.

Everyone can be a witness to the Gospel in some way or another, if they want to do so and we give them a chance. Maybe we should take the example of St. Francis and the Sisters of Life.

Why burn brain cells trying to figure out what others have already figured out?

JR

PS Tonight on EWTN Fr. Frank Pavone will be on live. He is an expert on life issues. Some people may want to watch and call in with this question.

 

[kt342206]

I actually think that the example she is showing is that she chose life for her baby. That even though this may not have been a planned pregnancy, by the fact that she is unmarried, she chose to give her child life. That in itself is giving witness to the gospel of life.

These young women will always have her as an example to look up to that chose to bring forth the life in her even though there will always be those who will look on her with scorn, rather than hide or kill it and be free from such scorn.

I think it would be setting a very bad example, especially for a ProLife Catholic school, to punish, scorn, and banish her (put her away privately) for choosing to bring forth the life within her.

What kind of message would that give the pro-abort crowd who ask prolifers ‘what do you do to help the mother?’

Women deserve better than to have to choose between their job and their child, especially in a setting committed to the gospel of life.

The Gospel of Matthew Chapter 1
18 Now the generation of Christ was in this wise. When as his mother Mary was engaged to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child, of the Holy Ghost. 19 Whereupon Joseph, being a just man, and not willing publicly to expose her, was minded to put her away privately. 20 But while he thought on these things, behold the angel of the Lord appeared to him in his sleep, saying: Joseph, son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife, for that which is conceived in her, is of the Holy Ghost.

I agree with you 100%.

I was actually very saddened when I read the posts of those who seemed so disturbed about the teacher bringing the baby to school. Catholic faithful tell their young people that if they have sex outside of marriage, they need go to confession and then be open to any life that may have resulted from the sexual encounter. They say that we need to encourage our young people to live the culture of life. They say that we need to offer support and encouragement for unwed mothers…

Can you not see how great a role model this woman has been by choosing to bring her child into the world? Imagine being in her position. She is a teacher at a traditional Catholic school. She gets pregnant and is unmarried. It is hard enough for unwed women to deal with unexpected pregnancies, but think of the ADDED anxiety, worry, regret, and sorrow that she would have been facing due to her position as a Catholic teacher (I can’t even imagine how I would deal with all of the embarrassment and regret she must have been experiencing). Yet, despite all of this, she choose to have her child.