Unmitigated Failure....are they blind?

[oat_soda]

See don’t it look like a TLM?

ascetics vs. asthetics. it may have the asthetic, but it doesn’t have the ascetic. no real presence makes it all show and no substance. i wish high anglicans would come home to the catholic church.

 

[Brennan_Doherty]

oat soda:

Brennan, you always post good stuff.

i’ve heard the mass being compared to a drama or work of art. when you’re at a divine liturgy or tridentine mass, they have this same aspect to it. the latin tongue, beautiful prayers, chant, vestments, and the movements of the priest and servers elevate you from the ordinary and mundane. for me, it feels like there is this cosmic dimension to it and heaven and earth are united on the altar in a mysterious way.

the first time i went to a latin mass, i felt an attraction to the priesthood. i’m sure it has to do with the allure of the latin mass. the new mass seems more choppy and dry. it doesn’t flow like the divine liturgy or tridentine mass. i even went to a novus order latin mass done ad orientem but it still didn’t flow like the old mass. this is my experience and other people may think differently but for me the new mass should have retained more of the old. this would have made the changes more organic.

why couldn’t they leave it an option to say the psalm 42 at the foot of the altar or the silent cannon?

oat soda, I agree with your assessment. I also believe the Tridentine liturgy attracts people to the Priesthood which is one reason groups like the FSSP has far more applicants than it can handle. As with you, the times I have felt the most drawn to the Priesthood has been at the Tridentine liturgy (even the low Mass variety!)

God bless.

 

[TobyLue]

oat Soda

ascetics vs. asthetics. it may have the asthetic, but it doesn’t have the ascetic. no real presence makes it all show and no substance. i wish high anglicans would come home to the catholic church.

Check this out.
http://www.atonementonline.com/index.php

These are Anglicans (18 individuals total including the priest with his wife and three children at that time) who came home to the Catholic Church in 1983. Now about 400 families. Elementary school 1-8 and first year of High School and all children attend mass daily. Yes, many Anglicans are coming home.

 

[TobyLue]

oat Soda

ascetics vs. asthetics. it may have the asthetic, but it doesn’t have the ascetic. no real presence makes it all show and no substance. i wish high anglicans would come home to the catholic church.

Check this out.
http://www.atonementonline.com/index.php

These are Anglicans (18 individuals total including the priest with his wife and three children at that time) who came home to the Catholic Church in 1983. Now about 400 families. Elementary school 1-8 and first year of High School and all children attend mass daily. Yes, many Anglicans are coming home.

 

[Crusader]

Brennan Doherty:

oat soda, I agree with your assessment. I also believe the Tridentine liturgy attracts people to the Priesthood which is one reason groups like the FSSP has far more applicants than it can handle. As with you, the times I have felt the most drawn to the Priesthood has been at the Tridentine liturgy (even the low Mass variety!)

God bless.

Largely because it’s a relatively tiny society with limited resources…

 

[katolik]

Crusader:

Largely because it’s a relatively tiny society with limited resources…

Sure, The FSSP has 40 seminarians coming in yearly while on the other hand my Archdiocese of Detroit will not have one priest ordained in 2007.

 

[Agomemnon]

katolik:

Sure, The FSSP has 40 seminarians coming in yearly while on the other hand my Archdiocese of Detroit will not have one priest ordained in 2007.

All Traditional orders are growing. Perhaps in America the diocesan system will completely die out…it certainly working itself toward that. Perhaps it needs to.

The Monastics are the future. The Traditional are our future.

 

[Crusader]

Agomemnon:

All Traditional orders are growing. Perhaps in America the diocesan system will completely die out…it certainly working itself toward that. Perhaps it needs to.

The Monastics are the future. The Traditional are our future.

Tiny.

 

[IrenkaJMJ]

Crusader:

Largely because it’s a relatively tiny society with limited resources…

Don’t forget the Imstitute of Christ the King! This is what they have accomplished in only 10 yrs!

Twenty-two houses in eleven countries, forty priests, and over sixty seminarians in a little more than ten years are perhaps sufficient proof that the Institute is on the right path within the Church.

The above is from their website.
institute-christ-king.org

 

[mkellogg]

JNB:

Here are two parishes that use the same Novus Ordo missal, in the same Archdiocese only a few miles away from each other.

Here are their links

www.stjoan.com
www.stagnes.net

St. Agnes while it uses the Novus Ordo missal is almost Tridentine in nature, while St. Joan of Arc seems to make it up as it goes along. An outside observer would say both parishes belong to dfifferent faiths.

Perhaps I’m just naive, but these two links were very instructive for me. I’m almost sick to my stomach, reading through the St Joan website, their bulletin, etc. This is a Catholic church??? Where is the bishop on all this? They have homosexual laypeople delivering homilies against Church teaching at their “gym masses”??? What on Earth?

St Agnes, on the other hand, runs a Latin Novus Ordo, something I’ve been dreaming of having at my local parish. A solid, orthodox, partly Latin mass. If I’m ever in Minneapolis again, I know which parish I’m visiting…

Seriously, St Joan’s appears to be a stain on that diocese. How can they blatantly violate liturgical rules and continue onward without reprimand? Why is the pastor not being transferred? I see what you mean when you say that an outsider would say the two parishes were practicing different religions. I myself had to double-check the full name of the parish after looking at the website. Horrible…

Michael

 

[JGC]

Dialogue with a Troubled Semi-Traditionalist on the “Catastrophe” of the Post-Vatican II Church

The purpose of Vatican II was neither scenario you suggest. You don’t seem to comprehend the utterly different approach to the modernist problem that the Council followed, as I tried to explain. Maybe that can resolve your “problem” and troubled heart. I hope so. In any event, I say that the Council indeed was intending to deal at least in part with modernism by making the faith more relevant and compelling to modern man, without sacrificing orthodoxy and its Tradition, or changing any of its essentials. In this it was successful, despite all the nonsense that also occurred. The world is a messy place. Things aren’t resolved in a neat little package, as they are in soap operas and fantasy movies. Maybe you think they are resolved quickly because you are in this culture and can’t see how you have been harmfully influenced by its false ideas.
Dave Armstrong
web.archive.org/web/20021021…smus/RAZ319.HTM

 

[deogratias]

Dave Armstrong might not be happy with you printing his material and the forum also has a rule about not posting things with a copy right (all his stuff is). The forum advises that we just post a link rather than the material.

 

[Fr.JLT]

Just read the St. Agnes site. Eco-Spirituality? What’s that? I don’t want to know, honestly, I don’t. I didn’t bother clicking the link.

We had a place of “Spiritual Direction,” mainly funded by the Diocese. They dropped them last year, fortunately. They still send me their adverts, though. THe last one included their seminar listings . . “Celtic Spirituality,” (last I knew, that was Druidism!), Reiki training, That other asian thing, Fang Sushi or whatever ], and the Spirituality of ANimals: Pets as your companions in the Spiritual Journey."

Unfortunately, our Lady’s Guild (Admittedly, unwittingly) booked the place for a day of recollection 4 years ago, and I was to be the presenter for the day. Mass was supposed to be part of the program. However, I refused to celebrate Mass there. When the nunny bunny in charge questioned me, I said, “I don’t have the most basic elements for Mass. There are no 51% or greater beeswax cabdles, there isnt’ even a Crucifix anywhere.” The Eucharist (though can’t be sure it even was because rumor has it that the nuns celebrate their own “Mass”, was in the rear cornber with a screen around it. Inside the screen, there it was. Suspended from the ceiling on what appeared to be fishing line was a balsa wood box (just like th ekind that salted codfish comes in), as the Tabernacle. I looked at her and said, “Yep. Sure ain’t no flies on the Lamb-o-God, eh?” She wasn’t happy. During the dinner, the nun “leader” of the place came out to tell the history of the building. She said that it had been, at one time, a home for unwed mothers. Then she added, emphatically, “But THANK GOD these cultural taboos are gone and this place was able to stop its work.” I interrupted her and said, “The opinions just expressed are not necesarily those of the Catholic CHurch, nor of any compassionate, thinking person.” I didnt’ sit down to eat. I was afraid she would have poisoned me. ))

I reported these things back to the Bishop. He threatened to stop funding and withdraw the Diocesan name if they didn’t change their ways. They didn’t, so he divorced Diocesan sponsorship of any and all kinds from them.

I still look over my shoulder a lot because of this. THey might put a hex on me or something. ))

– Fr. L.

 

[JGC]

deogratias:

Dave Armstrong might not be happy with you printing his material and the forum also has a rule about not posting things with a copy right (all his stuff is). The forum advises that we just post a link rather than the material.

Noted. DA, if this thread comes to your attention, my apologies!

 

[Agomemnon]

Fr. JLT:

I reported these things back to the Bishop. He threatened to stop funding and withdraw the Diocesan name if they didn’t change their ways. They didn’t, so he divorced Diocesan sponsorship of any and all kinds from them.

I still look over my shoulder a lot because of this. THey might put a hex on me or something. ))

– Fr. L.

 

[Fr.JLT]

HAHAHA Do you think I jest?? I am sure they can find me with their ouija boards. ))Busy praying for the Yankees.

 

[deogratias]

I still look over my shoulder a lot because of this. THey might put a hex on me or something. ))

Which old witch, the wicked old witch. Be careful - Haloween approaches

 

[Hesychios]

katolik:

Let me show you:
High church Anglican
www.stmarythevirgin.org.uk/Images/ServicesProcessions/HighMass.jpg
www.stmarythevirgin.org.uk/Images/ServicesProcessions/Midcomm.html
See don’t it look like a TLM?

I would like to think they were a lot like us and might want to come home. The liturgy is awesome!

Sadly, the opposition to the same-sex marriages and bishop Robinson is largely coming from the evangelical wing of the Anglican Communion without much noise at all coming from the Anglo-Catholic party. Being high-church liturgically is no indication of a person’s theological position.

 

[Crusader]

Hesychios:

I would like to think they were a lot like us and might want to come home. The liturgy is awesome!

Sadly, the opposition to the same-sex marriages and bishop Robinson is largely coming from the evangelical wing of the Anglican Communion without much noise at all coming from the Anglo-Catholic party. Being high-church liturgically is no indication of a person’s theological position.

We must keep in mind that the Anglican Communion is Protestant and not part of the Catholic Church in perfect communion with the Vicar of Christ on Earth.

 

[Teresita]

Funnily enough, I was at a TLM yesterday: the annual High Mass laid on by the Portsmouth (UK) section of the Latin Mass Society. Bishop Hollis (though no fan of anything pre-VII) gives permission for this to take place in the Cathedral, and yesterday it was particularly special because it was a Pontifical High Mass celebrated by Bishop Rifan of Campos - the Apostolic Administration granted last year when the Society of St Jean Vianney (a sort of Brazilian version of the SSPX) returned to full communion with Rome. I’d never attended a Pontifical High Mass before, and it was - divine. I’ve been a Catholic six years, and only started going to old rite Masses because I was taking an elderly friend; but they’ve sucked me in. I can well understand that not everything in the garden was lovely before VII (obviously I wouldn’t know); and my own parish celebrates Mass reverently and with care for the rubrics - we even have a Latin Mass each Sunday. But High Mass in the old rite is something quite different. It’s hard to analyse why, but I can provide an analogy: it’s the difference between watching people dancing to disco music and watching ballet. The first is an expression of the individual personality; the second necessitates subordination of the self to a transcendent discipline. Being present at the Novus Ordo Mass (this was, BTW, the official phrase used when it was first introduced, and isn’t, as someone thought, a contemptuous traddie sneer) helps me pray; being at the TLM is like being in Heaven.

But I still attend a Novus Ordo Mass daily, and am grateful that I can.

Sue