Unstructured Thread...

[Jimmy_B]

Firstly, Peter was not the first pope.

Secondly, Those popeyes look disgusting. They look like total junk that makes you fat, messes up your liver and causes heart trouble. I wouldn’t feed them to a dog.

Out of interest, where did the sacred heart of Christ originate?

Thirdly, Spring has come early to Eastern England. The Daffodils are out along with snow drops and primroses.

Fourthly, I’m expecting lots of PM’s afrom ‘evangelicals’ etc. about my new signiture.

Hello East Anglican,

Your quote:
“Firstly, Peter was not the first pope.”

1. Oh yes he was, Saint Peter was the first Pope, if you can prove otherwise, then please do so.

Your quote:
***“Secondly, Those popeyes look disgusting. They look like total junk that makes you fat, messes up your liver and causes heart trouble.” ***

1. That chicken looked pretty good to me,

Ain’t none of us getting out of here alive, one thing’s for sure, life will kill you.

Your quote:
"I wouldn’t feed them to a dog."

1. I would feed that to my dog (Buddy), he will eat anything.

Your quote:
"Out of interest, where did the sacred heart of Christ originate?"

1. So you don’t consider Christ’s heart to be “sacred”? I know you do…

Your quote:
"Thirdly, Spring has come early to Eastern England. The Daffodils are out along with snow drops and primroses."

1. It must be awesome there right now! Post a picture.

Your quote:
"Fourthly, I’m expecting lots of PM’s afrom ‘evangelicals’ etc. about my new signiture."

1. I am looking forward to it. I like your signature;

***“Consubstantiation means that The Bread and Wine are litrally The Body and Blood of Christ. The idea that they are merely symbolic is a Sacrementarianist error." ***

---

And to 2ndGen, I do believe that Popeye’s is secret for “Pope-Yes”!

Pope-Yes! Pope-Yes! Pope-Yes! Pope-Yes! Pope-Yes!

 

[2ndGen]

Jimmy_B:
And to 2ndGen, I do believe that Popeye’s is secret for “Pope-Yes”!

Pope-Yes! Pope-Yes! Pope-Yes! Pope-Yes! Pope-Yes!

See!

I knew it!

:yup:

 

[Mickey]

If according to you, the Orthodox Church doesn’t have a "pope’ figure, maybe you can explain what the Orthodox term, “Primus inter pares***” *(Latin),"first among equal" means, isn’t this essentially a “pope”? The Pope of the Orthodox Church?**No. It means all bishops are equal–as it was in the first millenium.
Jimmy B;3264379:

Isn’t the Patriarch

of Constantinople, essentially the leader of the Orthodox Church and essentially the “pope” of the Orthodox Church? No.

He, the Orthodox Patriarch,

Of Constantinople.

Who is “His All-Holiness”, Patriarch BARTHOLOMEW I

? The Patriarch of Constantinople.

Isn’t “first among equals

” just a play on wordsNo.

technically the Roman Catholic Pope could be considered the “first among equals”.

The Pope of Rome is called the supreme infallible pontiff.

God Bless You,

God bless you, Jimmy!

 

[Mickey]

so many things said yet you chose to ignore all of them all your quotes does nothing but to prove that peter is the chosen one to be the leader.

Perhaps you should read these quotes more closely. I have answered your questions to the best of my ability. If the answers are not good enough for you, I am sorry.

wether you like or not. the OT testifies about who holds the key of the Kingdom. therefore the NT testifies who is to hold the keys given by Christ the head of the Church.

It is not about what I like. All the Apostles were given the power to bind and loose. They all held the keys. Christ is the head of the Church.

you can not possibly know what is true only what you perceive to be the truth to you.

This is your opinion.

if you pay attention you will see in the NT the special relationship between Jesus and Peter. i am not saying the Peter was perfect. it doesnot matter to Jesus.

Jesus had special relationships with many in the Sacred Scripture. St John is often referred to as “the one whom Jesus loved”.

 

[Mickey]

Oh, yeah, and if I didn’t ask you (even though I’m pretty sure I did), is it your belief that Jesus gave The Keys to The Kingdom of Heaven to Peter’s “words”?

The keys to the kingdom of heaven are given to all who confess that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. You too can be like St Peter!

Also, wasn’t it “God’s Confession” since it was God who revealed to Peter what to say and thus, Jesus would be building His Church upon God’s Confession and not Peter’s?

The Father gave St Peter the words of truth. And if we confess this truth, we too become like St Peter.

 

[wisdomseeker]

Perhaps you should read these quotes more closely. I have answered your questions to the best of my ability. If the answers are not good enough for you, I am sorry.
It is not about what I like. All the Apostles were given the power to bind and loose. They all held the keys. Christ is the head of the Church.
This is your opinion.
Jesus had special relationships with many in the Sacred Scripture. St John is often referred to as “the one whom Jesus loved”.

Mickey

you are not being reasonable with your answers neither truthfull. it sounds more like you are in denial of the truth.

 

[wisdomseeker]

The keys to the kingdom of heaven are given to all who confess that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. You too can be like St Peter!
The Father gave St Peter the words of truth. And if we confess this truth, we too become like St Peter.

Please relate a passage in the Bible where it says the keys of the kingdom it is given to all who confess the faith like Peter.

 

[Mickey]

For example, they broke away from The Church. That’s a change from “orthodox” Christianity.

There were five Patriarchates: Rome, Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem, and Constantinople. The Catholics have Rome and the Orthodox have the other four. One may ask, “who broke away from whom”?

If they were the original Church, they wouldn’t have broken off from us, but would’ve kicked “us” out.

See above.

Jesus gave Peter the authority to lead His Church, yet they refuse to accept the scripture as it is written. That’s another change from “orthodox” Christianity.

We agree with that. But we also know that all the Apostles were leaders–that is Scriptural.

Yet, they kept The Holy Bible that The Catholic Church created.

The Church was one when the canons were compiled. That is an uncharitable remark. There was no such thing as the Roman Catholic Church at that time.

I guess, without any authority "in’ their Church, they could do whatever they want to.

Our bishops do a pretty good job.

Saint Andrew must be turning over in Heaven right now.

May God forgive you for that uncharitable comment.

Once they broke off from us, like The Protestants, they even had “schisms” amongst themselves.

A very good case can be made, that when Rome left the other four Patriarchates, and began their doctrinal innovations, it set the tone for the reformation. Holy Orthodoxy never had to deal with such a thing.

 

[Mickey]

Will the real “Orthodox” Church please stand up?

Straw man. The Eastern Catholic Church (in communion with Rome has 23 sui juris Churches. You have also listed uncanonical/schismatic Churches of which Rome also has Her share.

 

[wisdomseeker]

The keys to the kingdom of heaven are given to all who confess that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God. You too can be like St Peter!
The Father gave St Peter the words of truth. And if we confess this truth, we too become like St Peter.

the others apostles did not confess like Peter did and yet you say they also hold the keys. explain this please.

 

[Mickey]

Know what’s funny about this Orthodox Christian that slams The Catholic Church and our 2,000 year old traditions

I am not slamming. Why do you continue to be uncharitable.

The very same Crusades that we are vilified for were begun why? Because even though they left us, we were the ones they called for help with the Muslim incursion into Orthodox Christian lands.

And the crusaders sacked Constantinople, murdered the Christian women and children and looted Hagia Sophia. Man, you best read up on your history.

If it wasn’t for The Catholic Church, would the Orthodox Church even still be around today

That might be funny if I was not about to weep.

 

[wisdomseeker]

There were five Patriarchates: Rome, Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem, and Constantinople. The Catholics have Rome and the Orthodox have the other four. One may ask, “who broke away from whom”?
See above.
We agree with that. But we also know that all the Apostles were leaders–that is Scriptural.
The Church was one when the canons were compiled. That is an uncharitable remark. There was no such thing as the Roman Catholic Church at that time.
Our bishops do a pretty good job.
May God forgive you for that uncharitable comment.
A very good case can be made, that when Rome left the other four Patriarchates, and began their doctrinal innovations, it set the tone for the reformation. Holy Orthodoxy never had to deal with such a thing.

Rome left! you are saying that the rome church never exist before? what was st peter doing at rome if this church did not existe at this time? did you even read the quotes i sent you about the roman church? what year were those quotes made?

 

[Mickey]

for those blinded by sins may not be allowed to see the whole truth. for it is hidden from them until they repent and are forgiven.

Amen
smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/17/17_1_29.gif

 

[Mickey]

Rome left! you are saying that the rome church never exist before?

I have no idea what you are talking about.

what was st peter doing at rome if this church did not existe at this time? did you even read the quotes i sent you about the roman church? what year were those quotes made?

St Peter was in Antioch first. Did you know that? Did you read the quotes I posted?

 

[2ndGen]

No. It means all bishops are equal–as it was in the first millenium.

So The Pope when he meets with the Partriarch, he’s not meeting with the leader of The Orthodox Church, but only with the leader of that one community?

The Patriarch does “not” speak for the rest of the Orthodox Churches?

Which one of these definitons of “patriarch” is he then?

pa·tri·arch –noun

1. the male head of a family or tribal line.
2. a person regarded as the father or founder of an order, class, etc.
3. any of the very early Biblical personages regarded as the fathers of the human race, comprising those from Adam to Noah (antediluvian patriarchs) and those between the Deluge and the birth of Abraham.
4. any of the three great progenitors of the Israelites: Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob.
5. any of the sons of Jacob (the twelve patriarchs), from whom the tribes of Israel were descended.
6. (in the early Christian church) any of the bishops of any of the ancient sees of Alexandria, Antioch, Constantinople, Jerusalem, or Rome having authority over other bishops.
7. Greek Orthodox Church. the head of any of the ancient sees of Alexandria, Antioch, Constantinople, or Jerusalem, and sometimes including other sees of chief cities. Compare ecumenical patriarch.
8. the head of certain other churches in the East, as the Coptic, Nestorian, and Armenian churches, that are not in full communication with the ecumenical patriarch of Constantinople.
9. Roman Catholic Church. a. the pope as patriarch of the West.
   b. any of certain bishops of the Eastern rites, as a head of an Eastern rite or a bishop of one of the ancient sees.
   c. the head of a Uniate church.
10. Mormon Church. any of the high dignitaries who pronounce the blessing of the church; Evangelist.
11. one of the elders or leading older members of a community.
12. a venerable old man.

All those “Orthodox” related definitions seem to deem him The Leader, The Head, The Father (AKA Pope in Greek)…right?

No.
The Pope of Rome is called the supreme infallible pontiff.

If The Patriarch is “just” a Bishop equal to all Bishops, then why is he called The Patriarch which means leader with authority “over” other Bishops?



Plus, there is no “Pope of Rome”.
The Church isn’t “in” Rome, it’s in Vatican City (it’s own autonomous country).

The Pope however “is” The Bishop of Rome (the city) while simultaneously being The Pope (spiritual father) of The Universal Christian Church.

Pax.

 

[Mickey]

Never the less, I will “not” allow mistruths to be stated about our Faith.

Likewise.

 

[2ndGen]

All the Apostles were given the power to bind and loose. They all held the keys.

 

[2ndGen]

The keys to the kingdom of heaven are given to all who confess that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God.

 

[Mickey]

So The Pope when he meets with the Partriarch, he’s not meeting with the leader of The Orthodox Church, but only with the leader of that one community?

He is meeting with the Patriarch of Constantinople, not the supreme infallible Pope of the Orthodox Church.

The Patriarch does “not” speak for the rest of the Orthodox Churches?

No. As in the first millenium, each Patriarch/Metropolitan/Archbishop speaks for his Church.

All those “Orthodox” related definitions seem to deem him The Leader, The Head, The Father (AKA Pope in Greek)…right?

Nope. Primacy of honour does not equate to supreme infallible pontiff.

If The Patriarch is “just” a Bishop equal to all Bishops, then why is he called The Patriarch which means leader with authority “over” other Bishops?

Leader (as is any bishop) with a primacy of honour.

Plus, there is no “Pope of Rome”.
The Church isn’t “in” Rome, it’s in Vatican City (it’s own autonomous country).

Rome is still the name of the Patriarchate. But if you want to call him “The Pope of Vatican City”, I suppose you can.

 

[Mickey]

Scripture please?

Already provided it.

We all are like Peter already.

If you confess that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the living God, I expect that you are.

Right, so it was “God’s” confession that came out of Peter’s mouth because Jesus said that no man revealed that to him (including himself because he was a man), but God.

The Father does not need to make a confession. He gave St Peter the words of truth.

Listen, my brother in Christ. You and I are never going to agree on certain things. Your Church taught the same thing as mine until they split apart. Now Holy Orthodoxy remains unchanged while Rome has “developed”. I understand why Rome had to “develop”. The protestants pushed them to define things they never should have defined. Regardless, you and I will go round in circles on this forever.

Since this is an unstructured thread, I will now change the subject. How did the innovation of purgatory enter the Roman Catholic Church in the 13th century? Was this doctrine taught in unspoken ways when the Churches were one?