I know, Isa, you think that a protestant translator knows more about the ancient Greek language than an ancient Greek speaker like Clement of Alexandria:
Yes Isa. I have never seen that translation.
Your lexica should have put the case to rest but…
Douay-Rheims translates it
But I say to you, that whosoever shall put away his wife, excepting for the cause of
fornication, maketh her to commit adultery: and he that shall marry her that is put away, committeth adultery.
Funny, I didn’t know that the Douay-Rheims was a Protestant translation.
And not a single note on the verse that it means “invalid marriage,” or whatever. Strange. If they thought it meant that, you would think, with the whole Henry-Catherine thing, they would have said a word or two in a Bible gueared towards Henry’s (or rather his Protestant daughter’s) subjects, especially as the title page says it is for especially “for the discouerie of the CORRVPTIONS of diuers late translations, and for cleering the CONTROVERSIES in religion.”
"Now that the Scripture counsels marriage, and allows no release
from the union, is expressly contained in the law, ‘Thou shalt not
put away thy wife, except for the cause of porneia;’ and it
regards as porneia, the marriage of those separated while the
other is alive…
Your elipsis:
Not to deck and adorn herself beyond what is becoming, renders a wife free of calumnious suspicion, while she devotes herself assiduously to prayers and supplications; avoiding frequent departures from the house, and shutting herself up as far as possible from the view of all not related to her, and deeming housekeeping of more consequence than impertinent trifling.
‘He that taketh a woman that has been put away,’ it is said, ‘committeth adultery; and if one puts away his wife, he makes her an adulteress,’ that is, compels her to commit adultery. And not only is he who puts her away guilty of this, but he who takes her, by giving to the woman the opportunity of sinning; for did he not take her, she would return to her husband."
Clement of Alexandria,Stromata,2:24(A.D. 202),in ANF,II:379
Clement continues:
What, then, is the law?. In order to check the impetuosity of the passions, it commands the adulteress to be put to death, on being convicted of this; and if of priestly family, to be committed to the flames… And the adulterer also is stoned to death, but not in the same place, that not even their death may be in common. And the law is not at variance with the Gospel, but agrees with it. How should it be otherwise, one Lord being the author of both? She who has committed fornication liveth in sin, and is dead to the commandments; but she who has repented, being as it were born again by the change in her life, has a regeneration of life; the old harlot being dead, and she who has been regenerated by repentance having come back again to life. The Spirit testifies to what has been said by Ezekiel, declaring, “I desire not the death of the sinner, but that he should turn.
Now they are stoned to death; as through hardness of heart dead to the law which they believed not. But in the case of a priestess the punishment is increased, because “to whom much is given, from him shall more be required.”
ccel.org/ccel/schaff/anf02.vi.iv.ii.xxiii.html
So, would you feel better if we stoned the quilty party, so the innocent might remarry? Or apply binding and losening?
He also says:
Hence Abraham, regarding his wife as a sister, says, “She is my sister by my father, but not by my mother; and she became my wife,” (Gen. xx. 12) teaching us that children of the same mothers ought not to enter into matrimony.
Does that answer your sister-brother marriage question?
Now try to wrap your brain around this. Clement spoke greek. He said “porneia” meant a bigamous marriage while the spouse was still alive. In short a marriage that was illegitimate from the start and therefore null.
It is quite clear (especially in the left out part, whether by you or the quote mine), that he is talking about adultery. Nothing about “invalid” marriage whatsoever. He is talking about remarriage after adultery, which would include the ones you bless by anullment. It is also clear he is approaching it from a pastoral angle, not a legalistic one. And his emphasis is on reconciliation.
The very ones you Orthodox bless. I realize you like the Protestant translation, considering them so much more knowledgable about ancient greek words than the ancient greeks themselves, though in practice you allow divorce and re-marriage for many other reasons than adultery. Now this is the hard part. Concentrate! Your favored Protestant translation (KJV)
My favorite Protestant translation is the original RSV.
Speaking of Ancient Greeks, St. Clement goes through all the Ancient Greek thought on the subject, giving the context that he is speaking about, like “Legislators, moreover, do not allow those who are unmarried to discharge the highest magisterial offices. For instance, the legislator of the Spartans imposed a fine not on bachelorhood only, but on monogamy”
translates porneia as “fornication”. That derives FROM the word porneia. It doesn’t tell you what Christ meant by the word. That’s why we look to acient Greeks, not modern Protestants for our translation. I know, still too hard for you. :doh2:
I don’t depend on translation.
And that includes the Greek translation:
ܐܢܐ ܕܝܢ ܐܡܪ ܐܢܐ ܠܟܘܢ ܕܟܠ ܡܢ ܕܫܪܐ ܐܢܬܬܗ ܠܒܪ ܡܢ ܡܠܬܐ ܕܙܢܝܘܬܐ ܥܒܕ ܠܗ ܕܬܓܘܪ ܘܡܢ ܕܫܩܠ ܫܒܝܩܬܐ ܓܐܪ
gives some idea of the Vorlage. The word in question has nothing to do with “invalid” marriage, but sexual misdeeds of all sorts.
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