UPDATE: Altar girls and the Extraordinary Form – the PCED clarifies the situation [Fr. Z's blog]

[At_Trent]

People don’t want to spend time with their faces buried in the Missal. Its like not all anime fans want to watch with Japanese voices with English subs. They want to enjoy the art of the cartoon, not just read the subtitles.

And fact is, it is a stumbling block for most people. You can say what you want but most people will not go to a Latin Mass for the simple fact that its in Latin.

Today there are a lot of people guilty of Sloth. I’ll give you that

 

[ConstantineTG]

Today there are a lot of people guilty of Sloth. I’ll give you that

Its not about sloth. I don’t know why you accuse people of such. There are many good Catholics out there who prefer their Liturgy in their own language.

 

[At_Trent]

What I’d like to know is in a thread such as this one, why do Catholics who do not assist the EF, nor want to, feel a need to post their negative comments ?

What is it you fear, or hope to gain ? Can any of you bring yourself to be honest about this ?

 

[Phemie]

But back in the day, before young boys saw girls serving Mass and thinking that’s what girls do, there wasn’t a shortage of boys wanting to serve.

The story was a recollection from years ago.

My dad’s story is from years ago too, he’d be 99 if he were still alive. Dad was the head altar server with the same pastor for decades.

 

[ConstantineTG]

What I’d like to know is in a thread such as this one, why do Catholics who do not assist the EF, nor want to, feel a need to post their negative comments ?

What is it you fear, or hope to gain ? Can any of you bring yourself to be honest about this ?

Question back at you. Why do you fear the presence of such people?

 

[ProVobis]

If one can read English there is no stumbling block. That’s what missals are for.

Exactly. In a way it’s good that Latin is used mostly by scholars and is little used in ordinary conversations. That way there is little incentive for the illiterates and half-literates to change its meanings while the English changes and corrupts its meanings (and grammar) all the time.

 

[CB_Catholic]

People around here need to learn how to play nice…

 

[TrueLight]

People around here need to learn how to play nice…

And not make sexist comments. I was quite surprised by that.

Feels like I crashed a frat party.

 

[At_Trent]

My dad’s story is from years ago too, he’d be 99 if he were still alive. Dad was the head altar server with the same pastor for decades.

Ok, I see now.

He must have had a strong faith, and I’d guess your family did/does as well.

 

[At_Trent]

Exactly. In a way it’s good that Latin is used mostly by scholars and is little used in ordinary conversations. That way there is little incentive for the illiterates and half-literates to change its meanings while the English changes and corrupts its meanings (and grammar) all the time.

Good point.

There really is very little Latin one needs to learn anyhow, as far as the EF goes. And a few lines of Greek

 

[Phemie]

Ok, I see now.

He must have had a strong faith, and I’d guess your family did/does as well.

He and mom had a very strong faith. Unfortunately, it didn’t ‘catch’. My two brothers will have nothing to do with the Church - sad because I chose them as my eldest two’s godfathers before I became aware of that . Sadly too, in spite of my commitment to the faith, it didn’t catch with my children either. None of the three go to church, the oldest is in an invalid marriage and other two are cohabiting.

 

[At_Trent]

And not make sexist comments. I was quite surprised by that.

Feels like I crashed a frat party.

< That is a smiley. It indicates humor.

I was ran out of a baby shower recently and was the object of a humorous ribbing, told “go mow the yard or whatever men do on Saturday”

I didn’t know 70 % of the women there but I wasn’t offended at all.

 

[At_Trent]

He and mom had a very strong faith. Unfortunately, it didn’t ‘catch’. My two brothers will have nothing to do with the Church - sad because I chose them as my eldest two’s godfathers before I became aware of that . Sadly too, in spite of my commitment to the faith, it didn’t catch with my children either. None of the three go to church, the oldest is in an invalid marriage and other two are cohabiting.

Well, these days it’s a common story. We can only be diligent in our prayers. I’m sure you know that though.

 

[FAB]

Could you explain the animosity you have to the UE ?

I don’t have a particular animosity against it, the pope has recognized a need for it and I recognize that there is a certain sub group in the Church which feels that they need it to be able to worship in a manor that they believe is more sacred.
My problem are with those who do not want to recognize this fact and revel in any news that seems to support their cause.
It has been an injustice by the church to penalize women for their gender. The idea that a woman can’t perform in the role of a server or proclaim the word of God is simply silly. The documents of VII recognized this and have given women a more prominent role in the church.
Since women make up half of any population, can anyone believe that after making advances in the Church that any majority would stand for the clock to be rolled back, I think not. It would damage the Church much worse than anything that has been imagined by those who think VII was a mistake.
by supporting such ideas you are loosing your own augments.
I also don’t believe that there is any great number that would accept a return to Latin. Both of these ideas are non starters.

 

[FAB]

If one can read English there is no stumbling block. That’s what missals are for.

Latin is a major road block. the Faith full want to be able to understand the mass in their own language. Mass in the vernacular was realized to be a need long before VII, but it took the council to mack it happen.

 

[TrueLight]

< That is a smiley. It indicates humor.

I was ran out of a baby shower recently and was the object of a humorous ribbing, told “go mow the yard or whatever men do on Saturday”

I didn’t know 70 % of the women there but I wasn’t offended at all.

Except that we’re discussing something that is serious. I don’t want to see female servers either. I actually like that men are able to have this role reserved to them; one reason being that women tend to be a lot more active in church anyway.

However, I do hope that it was a true joke and that and that traditional men are not closet sexists.

 

[ProVobis]

Latin is a major road block. the Faith full want to be able to understand the mass in their own language. Mass in the vernacular was realized to be a need long before VII, but it took the council to mack it happen.

And people still don’t understand the Mass. Ever ask them what the readings were all about as they leave the Church? Do they even remember which EP was used?

 

[At_Trent]

I don’t have a particular animosity against it, the pope has recognized a need for it and I recognize that there is a certain sub group in the Church which feels that they need it to be able to worship in a manor that they believe is more sacred.
My problem are with those who do not want to recognize this fact and revel in any news that seems to support their cause.
It has been an injustice by the church to penalize women for their gender. The idea that a woman can’t perform in the role of a server or proclaim the word of God is simply silly. The documents of VII recognized this and have given women a more prominent role in the church.
Since women make up half of any population, can anyone believe that after making advances in the Church that any majority would stand for the clock to be rolled back, I think not. It would damage the Church much worse than anything that has been imagined by those who think VII was a mistake.
by supporting such ideas you are loosing your own augments.
I also don’t believe that there is any great number that would accept a return to Latin. Both of these ideas are non starters.

Ok, I see now. But you seem to be saying what the Church has deemed ok for the OF should not be frowned upon for the EF. And this opinion follows a clarification by the Church that the rubrics and customs in place in 1962 must remain. You can’t preach acceptance of all that followed VII without accepting… all that followed VII… including the UE…

That’s what’s happening in this thread, we are straying from the topic. Fwiw, I assist weekday OF Mass quite often, and I do so without letting the female lectors and EMHC distract me. I accept that is the pastor of the parish’s decision.

Just as you can be content with female servers at the OF, we who prefer the EF as it is should be allowed to feel the same on a thread that discusses the EF ?

 

[At_Trent]

Latin is a major road block. the Faith full want to be able to understand the mass in their own language. Mass in the vernacular was realized to be a need long before VII, but it took the council to mack it happen.

it isn’t a roadblock for those who wish to attend the EF…

 

[SunnaB16]

It has been an injustice by the church to penalize women for their gender. The idea that a woman can’t perform in the role of a server or proclaim the word of God is simply silly. The documents of VII recognized this and have given women a more prominent role in the church.

Can you give specific quotes from VII documents?
The “injustice” line is am old chestnut.

Since women make up half of any population, can anyone believe that after making advances in the Church that any majority would stand for the clock to be rolled back, I think not. It would damage the Church much worse than anything that has been imagined by those who think VII was a mistake.

The Church needed to have a bomb put under It; and VII did just that.
The problem has been the misinterpretation (i`m sure deliberate in so many cases) of VII documents. The radical feminists and their lackeys have played merry hell with that.

I also don’t believe that there is any great number that would accept a return to Latin. Both of these ideas are non starters.

Yeah?
But the extremist idea of banning the OF is misguided; just a good cleanup will do! And, thankfully, it`s already happening.
Some decent catechesis would sort out most problems…

At Trent (Post #59):
Ditto.