Upset and confused by Catholic traditionalists

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(Please don’t report/delete this. I’m not trying to start anything, I am asking a serious question).

It seems that certain traditionalist groups have left me feeling confused and ambivalent about my faith. One thing that traditionalists doggedly talk about it how religious liberty and, by extension, all forms of classical liberalism, are heretical and modernist, since they are an affront to the social Kingship of Christ.

Now, I’ve pored over and read reconciliations between Vatican II documents and the works of Pope’s Pius IX and X, Leo XIII, among others. I understand the difference in what they are talking about, respectively. The pre-V2 crowd is condemning religious indifferentism, while On Human Dignity is speaking about freedom from coercion. Error does not have rights, but those in error do.

Still, the traditionalist rhetoric often leaves me unsettled. It makes me question my own orthodoxy, and whether the average Catholic parish is truly faithful. It’s comparable to gaslighting.

What’s more, it has caused me to distrust both regular, faithful Catholics and self-proclaimed Traditionalists. The former because they may be hoodwinked by the “Spirit of Vatican II”, and the latter because they give me the impression that I’m a heretic unless I advocate a Catholic police state that beats up nonbelievers and heretics.

There was also a case of an SSPX school in Kansas that would play in a basketball game because one referee was a woman, and that “women should not have authority over men”.

Now I have been staying away from Catholic websites for months now, but I am unable to completely banish these doubts and worries. It’s getting to the point where I assume the worst of traditionalists, that they’re all fascists whose pores emit pure malice at the mention of Jews or Protestants (okay, this is mostly me exaggerating to entertain myself). But what can I do about this? How can I be more charitable and have peace of mind?
 
Jack,

Fear not. You can find extremists in both camps. I personally ignore extremes no matter where they originate. Sounds like you need to find a good spiritual advisor. Talk to your local priest.

I am a traditionalist but I try not to belittle my fellow new Mass folks. We are all God’s children. Sure I have my preferences as do most people.

I would highly recommend going to Adoration each week for a while. Just to sit there and be with Christ and pray or meditate.

God Bless you. 🙂
 
Hey buddy. I recommend a simple thing. Something that can’t fail. Look, it’s like this. Which group makes YOU feel more loving, gentle, kind, compassionate, humble, and wanting peace? Because I’d say you should go with that group. I mean anything else can’t be bringing you closer to God. Anything else can’t be making you ready to live an eternity with pure goodness. Hope that helps!

Peace.

-Trident
 
I am a traditionalist but I try not to belittle my fellow new Mass folks. We are all God’s children. Sure I have my preferences as do most people.

I would highly recommend going to Adoration each week for a while. Just to sit there and be with Christ and pray or meditate.

God Bless you. 🙂
Thanks. I know an overwhelming majority of Traditionalists are not the lunatics who have found each other on the internet. And yes, I have been going to Adoration weekly for the past several years.

The truth is, I know to stay away from those who create division and madness. I think it’s just a matter of intrusive thoughts.

God bless you too 🙂
 
I ignore the politics in the church. I attend Mass to share in the Eucharist and worship with fellow believers. 👍
 
I used to be like this. I find it best to just avoid church politics. I was once a member of a more traditionalist Catholic message board and it seemed that all they did was pick flaws with everything and make everything negative. If Pope St. Pius X himself were to come down from heaven and say Mass at St. Peter’s they would complain his Latin was imperfect. We are all on our own spiritual journey, and although sometimes it is really hard, we need to not be overly concerned with what other people are obsessing over.
 
Jack,

Fear not. You can find extremists in both camps. I personally ignore extremes no matter where they originate. Sounds like you need to find a good spiritual advisor. Talk to your local priest.

I am a traditionalist but I try not to belittle my fellow new Mass folks. We are all God’s children. Sure I have my preferences as do most people.

I would highly recommend going to Adoration each week for a while. Just to sit there and be with Christ and pray or meditate.

God Bless you. 🙂
Thank you for your post!

I would add, draw close to our Blessed Mother. She truly is our spiritual mother, given to us at the foot of the Cross.
 
I was confused as well after hearing all this as well. The question about whether the host is actually consecrated in the new Mass really threw me. I did some research into " Miracles of the Eucharist and found this

catholiccompany.com/getfed/pope-francis-eucharistic-miracle-in-argentina

This was well after Vatican 2 … Satan s mission is to conquer and divide. And he’s done a pretty good job of it.

I m keeping it simple now. Mass daily , One hour before the Eurcharist , rosary and concecration to Our Blessed Mother. In addition and most importantly , Trust in Our Lord . He loves us beyond measure.
 
I was confused as well after hearing all this as well. The question about whether the host is actually consecrated in the new Mass really threw me. I did some research into " Miracles of the Eucharist and found this

catholiccompany.com/getfed/pope-francis-eucharistic-miracle-in-argentina

This was well after Vatican 2 … Satan s mission is to conquer and divide. And he’s done a pretty good job of it.

I m keeping it simple now. Mass daily , One hour before the Eurcharist , rosary and concecration to Our Blessed Mother. In addition and most importantly , Trust in Our Lord . He loves us beyond measure.
Amen!

One of the tactics of the evil one is to divide.

And we have a loving Mother who intercedes for us; her son is the Victor!
 
Jack,
I too suffered from investigating that end of the spectrum. Now I treat intrusive thoughts the same way I do temptations, and “bad” Masses as crosses to bear and offer up.
 
Belle 333, Thank you for the site. I sent it out to all. Wonderful what science can find today. World can always use more miracles. Very moving. :nun1::blessyou:
 
(Please don’t report/delete this. I’m not trying to start anything, I am asking a serious question).

It seems that certain traditionalist groups have left me feeling confused and ambivalent about my faith. One thing that traditionalists doggedly talk about it how religious liberty and, by extension, all forms of classical liberalism, are heretical and modernist, since they are an affront to the social Kingship of Christ.

Now, I’ve pored over and read reconciliations between Vatican II documents and the works of Pope’s Pius IX and X, Leo XIII, among others. I understand the difference in what they are talking about, respectively. The pre-V2 crowd is condemning religious indifferentism, while On Human Dignity is speaking about freedom from coercion. Error does not have rights, but those in error do.

Still, the traditionalist rhetoric often leaves me unsettled. It makes me question my own orthodoxy, and whether the average Catholic parish is truly faithful. It’s comparable to gaslighting.

What’s more, it has caused me to distrust both regular, faithful Catholics and self-proclaimed Traditionalists. The former because they may be hoodwinked by the “Spirit of Vatican II”, and the latter because they give me the impression that I’m a heretic unless I advocate a Catholic police state that beats up nonbelievers and heretics.

There was also a case of an SSPX school in Kansas that would play in a basketball game because one referee was a woman, and that “women should not have authority over men”.

Now I have been staying away from Catholic websites for months now, but I am unable to completely banish these doubts and worries. It’s getting to the point where I assume the worst of traditionalists, that they’re all fascists whose pores emit pure malice at the mention of Jews or Protestants (okay, this is mostly me exaggerating to entertain myself). But what can I do about this? How can I be more charitable and have peace of mind?
Do you also get this upset by the liberal faction in the Church? Those who dissent against the teachings of Jesus on the priesthood, contraception, marriage, family and/or abortion? There is also a fair amount of animosity shown to Traditionalists and the TLM in general. Do you get upset by this also?
 
Some stuff I’ve been reading as of late do make me wonder about things, sometimes, like ecumenical dialogue, the Novus Ordo vs TLM, communion in the hand, Fatima, etc. What can you do now, other than just pray, I guess.
 
Belle 333, Thank you for the site. I sent it out to all. Wonderful what science can find today. World can always use more miracles. Very moving. :nun1::blessyou:
You are very welcome… It helped to put my mind at ease at least regarding the concecration 🙂

God Bless You
 
Do you also get this upset by the liberal faction in the Church? Those who dissent against the teachings of Jesus on the priesthood, contraception, marriage, family and/or abortion? There is also a fair amount of animosity shown to Traditionalists and the TLM in general. Do you get upset by this also?
Those people are much easier to correct and refute. I have found that many who subscribe to left-wing heresies often do so out of ignorance, or because they haven’t found a convincing argument for orthodoxy.

“Mad-trads”, on the other hand, are often angry and stubborn in their rhetoric, and reject any criticism of their exact worldview as heresy and Modernism. There are some who propose things that would be suicidal of the Church’s acceptance, such as wanting a government that amounts to Fascism in Catholic clothing.

The reason I get more upset about “trads” is because I see in them a morbid desire for power and dominion over other people. Like I mentioned before, an SSPX high school in Kansas refused to play in a basketball game because a refund was a woman, and because they think women should not be in a position of authority over men. SSPX has also defended the Vichy regime in France, who were little more than the Third Reich’s useful idiots.

It’s one reason I am glad for Vatican II. It gave us Catholics something other than theological semantics to distinguish ourselves from radical Islam. You could say I don’t have a problem with traditionalist in and of itself; I do, however, have a problem with their power fetishes.
 
Those people are much easier to correct and refute. I have found that many who subscribe to left-wing heresies often do so out of ignorance, or because they haven’t found a convincing argument for orthodoxy.

“Mad-trads”, on the other hand, are often angry and stubborn in their rhetoric, and reject any criticism of their exact worldview as heresy and Modernism. There are some who propose things that would be suicidal of the Church’s acceptance, such as wanting a government that amounts to Fascism in Catholic clothing.

The reason I get more upset about “trads” is because I see in them a morbid desire for power and dominion over other people. Like I mentioned before, an SSPX high school in Kansas refused to play in a basketball game because a refund was a woman, and because they think women should not be in a position of authority over men. SSPX has also defended the Vichy regime in France, who were little more than the Third Reich’s useful idiots.

It’s one reason I am glad for Vatican II. It gave us Catholics something other than theological semantics to distinguish ourselves from radical Islam. You could say I don’t have a problem with traditionalist in and of itself; I do, however, have a problem with their power fetishes.
This is true of all groups though, and can’t be ascribed specifically to Mad-Trads, as you put it. Every group has people who will go to extremes, and it’s most often those people that we hear about, so we look at them as the norm for behavior.

Take Wesboro Baptist, for example. I think that anyone who is a genuine, Christ-loving Christian recognizes that they are not speaking true Christian teaching. The problem is that, as a result of the wide-spread news coverage they received, there are many non-Christians who view all of Christendom in light of their actions. Even though they represent a statistically insignificant portion of Christianity, they receive a disproportional amount of coverage, skewing public perception and understanding.
 
“Lunatics” are everywhere, not just traditionals. Ever see a woman who thinks she’s a priest? Enough said.
 
“Mad trads”? Let me tell you about “mad libs” in my parish who ran out a wonderful priest because he had the “audacity” to tell us that abortion was evil.

Please stop painting Catholics with a broad brush. No matter where you go, you will find the same type of people.
 
“Mad trads”? Let me tell you about “mad libs” in my parish who ran out a wonderful priest because he had the “audacity” to tell us that abortion was evil.

Please stop painting Catholics with a broad brush. No matter where you go, you will find the same type of people.

From reading the OP’s posts – he does not sound as painting Catholics with a broad brush – but was referring to a “group” within Traditionalism. Now – trying to “cover” for the “Mad trads” – by pointing out the “mad libs” – doesn’t make the “Mad trads/radical trads/toxic trads” – any less “Mad/radical/toxic”.
 

From reading the OP’s posts – he does not sound as painting Catholics with a broad brush – but was referring to a “group” within Traditionalism. Now – trying to “cover” for the “Mad trads” – by pointing out the “mad libs” – doesn’t make the “Mad trads/radical trads/toxic trads” – any less “Mad/radical/toxic”.
I wasn’t referring to his post. I was referring to other posts. 🙂

Who’s covering for “Mad trads”? I’m just pointing out that it exists all over and wherever you find human beings. :tiphat:
 
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