Upstate groups rally for secession

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Albany Times Union:
Upstate groups rally for secession
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Somewhere around Dutchess County — or maybe it’s Orange County, or perhaps even Westchester County — there is an imaginary yet almost tangible line.
Those on each side of this “border” have fought for decades over many issues. And for as long as there has been this upstate-downstate debate, there has been a solution pushed by a vocal minority: secession.
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Secession of upstate is the idea that brought together an estimated 100-plus New Yorkers Sunday in Chenango County for a meeting on the subject.
Yet for its numerous iterations, the idea of splitting the state has never gained real widespread traction.
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And it’s not only an upstate-downstate issue. Secession of New York City was Norman Mailer’s idea when he ran for mayor of the Big Apple in 1969. Secession of Long Island was an idea lampooned by Comedy Central’s “The Daily Show” in 2009.
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In theory, it’s simple. If a region wanted to become the 51st state in the union, it would need state legislative and U.S. congressional approval. If part of New York wanted to be absorbed by another state (some Southern Tier towns are seeking to become part of Pennsylvania), both state legislatures would have to agree to the plan and Congress would have to ratify the decision.
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I’m all for it and I’, sure there are similar situation in other states where a few cities dominate the state legislature.
 
didymus said:
Albany Times Union:

I’m all for it and I’, sure there are similar situation in other states where a few cities dominate the state legislature.
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St. Louis and Kansas City don’t really dominate our state legislature, but they do have an effect. Wonder if they would like to secede from us “hillbillies”? Wouldn’t break my heart to see it. If Qui est-ce is watching this, no personal offense intended. 🙂
 
didymus said:
Albany Times Union:

I’m all for it and I’, sure there are similar situation in other states where a few cities dominate the state legislature.
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I heard not long ago talk about S FL and N FL separating. FL has been a red state in midterms. Has a lot of Republicans in Tallahassee. But has been a blue state in recent Presidential elections. N FL is more like AL. S FL is more like the US Northeast and upper midwest and west coast politically and is more culturally diverse than N FL I’d guess. Some of the heaviest Democratic counties in FL are in SE FL. I’ve heard talk of TX seceding from the whole union too. Anything’s possible I suppose. But I’d be kinda surprised if anyone actually secedes.
 
Ridgerunner said:
St. Louis and Kansas City don’t really dominate our state legislature, but they do have an effect. Wonder if they would like to secede from us “hillbillies”? Wouldn’t break my heart to see it. If Qui est-ce is watching this, no personal offense intended. 🙂
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Maybe Qui est-ce can correct me, but didn’t St Louis secede from the county in the 1800s, so it wouldn’t have to pay for the infrastructure for the rural areas?
 
stinkcat_14 said:
Maybe Qui est-ce can correct me, but didn’t St Louis secede from the county in the 1800s, so it wouldn’t have to pay for the infrastructure for the rural areas?
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I don’t know. The City of St. Louis is its own county, I do know that much. If the City did that to avoid paying for rural infrastructure, it made a big mistake because the outlying suburbs are now much bigger, much more populous and much wealthier than the City itself is.
 
Well, you know, here in TX some still say “If at first you don’t secede, try try again.” :)🙂

No-one really wAnts to do that though; we gave up one-third of our square mileage to enter the Union, and wouldn’t get it back.

The U.S. dollar is also a much better deal than trying to float a new Texas Peso.

ICXC NIKA
 
I’ve heard of several states that have movements to create new states, like in California the upper half is more conservative some people there want to create a State called “Jefferson”, another movement wants to break away from eastern Tennessee to form the State Of Franklin.
 
GEddie said:
Well, you know, here in TX some still say “If at first you don’t secede, try try again.” :)🙂

No-one really wAnts to do that though; we gave up one-third of our square mileage to enter the Union, and wouldn’t get it back.

The U.S. dollar is also a much better deal than trying to float a new Texas Peso.

ICXC NIKA
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https://imgur.com/7OPoOG2
:)🙂
 
BackHand said:
I’ve heard of several states that have movements to create new states, like in California the upper half is more conservative some people there want to create a State called “Jefferson”, another movement wants to break away from eastern Tennessee to form the State Of Franklin.
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also Colorado. It was voted down.
 
I’m all for it and I’, sure there are similar situation in other states where a few cities dominate the state legislature.

I grew up in Queens and spent my adult life in Orange County so I am aware of this. It used to frustrate me that NYC votes would decide for the rest of the state because of their sheer numbers. And I’m seeing this in VA with northern VA deciding for the rest of the state. It’s nice to think about, but I doubt secession would ever happen.
 
Secession? None for me. History would repeat itself and likely give a far worse outcome.
 
Don’t expect this to ever pass, because of the costs involved and I doubt it would solve much. It would just move bickering from the state assembly to the national arena. The one exception might be California due to their size and population.
 
I’m all for any region who wants to secede. I wish my state would. I’m not sure why people object so strenuously to the idea. They only objection is that folks don’t like the politics of the secessionist. So they want to impose their politics on them. Democracy is not a popular concept when others would do other than you.
GEddie said:
The U.S. dollar is also a much better deal than trying to float a new Texas Peso.
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The US dollar is a terrible currency. It is inflationary and has value only because of US military power. Any hard currency is an improvement. Eventually the US dollar will be worthless when the US military is no longer to prop it up.
 
Romans615 said:
Secession? None for me. History would repeat itself and likely give a far worse outcome.
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No one is talking about seceding from the Union and starting a new civil war, it’s about dividing states up which wold have to be done thru the legislatures.
Theo520 said:
Don’t expect this to ever pass, because of the costs involved and I doubt it would solve much. It would just move bickering from the state assembly to the national arena. The one exception might be California due to their size and population.
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Yes, there would be a lot of costs involved but I don’t see why that would move it to the national arena. I think the biggest problems for states like NY and CA would be apportioning the state debt like state worker pensions.

And there are some things the upstate NY movement hasn’t considered. Prisoners from downstate are sent up here and there are places that would become ghost towns if the prisons disappeared. Not to mention that, ironically there were a couple tough on crime Assemblypersons and State Senators who would have lost their districts if the prison population wasn’t counted in the census.
 
exnihilo said:
I’m all for any region who wants to secede. I wish my state would. I’m not sure why people object so strenuously to the idea. They only objection is that folks don’t like the politics of the secessionist. So they want to impose their politics on them. Democracy is not a popular concept when others would do other than you.

The US dollar is a terrible currency. It is inflationary and has value only because of US military power. Any hard currency is an improvement. Eventually the US dollar will be worthless when the US military is no longer to prop it up.
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The last thing the world needs is more sovereignties, borders, and visas. That sort of thing has generated nothing but war.

The USA is a great nation, and its enormous size and population are part of what make it great. Current political disagreements over such things as gay marriage are just the normal outcome of democratic processes (and venal politics).

Citizens of small countries are far more burdened because they have to pay proportionally more for border guards, military, embassies, security, espionage, etc. Cultural pride IMNAAHO is not worth it.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
The last thing the world needs is more sovereignties, borders, and visas. That sort of thing has generated nothing but war.
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I don’t know. The most war deaths for the US was in the War Between the States. But how do you determine what the just right number of countries is? How do you determine the just right border lines?
GEddie said:
The USA is a great nation, and its enormous size and population are part of what make it great. Current political disagreements over such things as gay marriage are just the normal outcome of democratic processes (and venal politics).

Citizens of small countries are far more burdened because they have to pay proportionally more for border guards, military, embassies, security, espionage, etc. Cultural pride IMNAAHO is not worth it.
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What exactly makes the US great?

The US is a large country. But it is not the largest in terms of population or land. And yet it has a war budget that dwarfs other countries. For us there is no cost savings in aggregation.

Border guards are more about government collecting taxes. In the US that is all they do. They certainly don’t stop illegals or terrorists.

Espionage is immoral.
 
I don’t know. The most war deaths for the US was in the War Between the States. But how do you determine what the just right number of countries is? How do you determine the just right border lines?
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Precisely. The WBTS was waged because a few dozen hotheads in high positions thought breaking up a nation was a proper response to a political disagreement.

I don’t know what the right number of sovereignties would be. But given the number of dead bodies they continue to generate, probably already too many. I’d say stopping where we are now would be a good baseline.

ICXC NIKA
 
Espionage is immoral.
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Maybe it is, maybe not. But it can be no more immoral than war. Information is NOT more sacred than human life.

In any case, every country does it to every other, including Vatican City. If a nation wishes to survive, it has to get good at it. And a smaller nation, that can’t count on fighting its way out of trouble, needs to be even better at it.

ICXC NIKA
 
Inflation of the currency is Federal Reserve policy. They aim for a 2% inflation rate. This is called “price stability.” Really? It means my money is worth 2% less, at least, with every passing year. To me, price stability is a zero percent inflation rate.
 
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