Urbi et orbi

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henrikhank

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Laudetur Jesus Christus!
Why is the URBI ET ORBI message in Italian and not Latin which is the language of the Roman Catholic Church? Why do Catholics (especcialy the Pope) like Italian so much? Shouldn’t it be in Latin. I mean, isn’t URBI ET ORBI not just for Italians but for all people?
 
It so happens that the majority of speeches, homilies, etc., are given in the Italian language at the Vatican. It has been like this for quite a long time, a long time even before Vatican II. Italian is the working language of the Vatican, because it is in Italy. When an American bishop goes there, he must usually speak Italian. If the Vatican were in, say, Germany, I can guarantee they’d be speaking German.

Whenever there is a extremely major meeting, such as at a council, the discussion language is Latin and not Italian, and those present will speak it. I’ve always wanted to hear a recording of Vatican II for that reason; I think it would be very interesting to hear a real discussion in Latin. But for the average meeting or what have you, the language is Italian.

If you watch the entire Urbi et Orbi, you will hear the Pope give the actual blessing in Latin. “Urbi et Orbi…” to which the people respond, “Amen.” The blessing itself is, in fact, in the Latin language, but the speech accompanying it is usually in Italian. This is how it has been for quite a long time, and is not a post-Vatican II invention or anything. You can zoom around in the video on Youtube until you see someone holding a big white book in front of the Pope. That is the Latin blessing itself.
 
The papal address at the Urbi et Orbi" is in italian and can be found here translated

whispersintheloggia.blogspot.com/

The christmas greetings are read by His Holiness in several languages followed by the Urbi et Orbi apostolic blessing in Latin.

Before and after this the anthem is played on trumpets.
 
henrikhank said:
Laudetur Jesus Christus!
Why is the URBI ET ORBI message in Italian and not Latin which is the language of the Roman Catholic Church? Why do Catholics (especcialy the Pope) like Italian so much? Shouldn’t it be in Latin. I mean, isn’t URBI ET ORBI not just for Italians but for all people?
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Urbi Et Orbi is Latin… But The reason why His Holiness speaks Italian mostly is because His Holiness is surrounded by Italy.

God love you
Pax Christi
 
ProVobis said:
While Latin and Italian are distinct languages, one can say that much of Italian has been morphed from Vulgar Latin of the early centuries.

intersolinc.com/newsletters/images/Language%20Tree.gif
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I believe all the modern Romance languages are, in essence, Vulgar Latin dialects that have continued to evolve over the centuries (generally with a few Germanic and other elements introduced as well).

Not that this gives Italian or any other Romance language a sort of official place in the Church as a form of Latin. I think the key thing is that the address is given simultaneously to the city and the world, but it’s given in the city in the immediate hearing (especially prior to modern forms of communication) of mostly Italian speakers, so it makes sense that the language be Italian. Other world audiences can read translations.

By the way, I know that the Romance languages of Western Europe (Romanian would be quite isolated from this, I assume) are really more like a continuum of dialects divided into a few languages fairly artificially and largely out of political considerations. Italian certainly is divided into many dialects, and I’ve heard the standard version of Italian described as Tuscan spoken with a Roman accent, or something along those lines. Anyway, I don’t think there’s as large a difference between the Roman dialect and standard Italian as there is for some other Italian dialects, but does anyone know how Pope Benedict speaks Italian? I’m guessing standard Italian with a Bavarian accent considering his national origin, but it would be interesting if he has actually learned and implemented any unique aspects of the Roman dialect.
 
YoungTradCath said:
Whenever there is a extremely major meeting, such as at a council, the discussion language is Latin and not Italian, and those present will speak it. I’ve always wanted to hear a recording of Vatican II for that reason;
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Much as I wish it were otherwise, this is no longer the case. Even at Vatican II, most of the bishops spoke in their own languages, and those listening used headphones with interpreters, as is done in the UN. Only a small number of bishops exercised their option to address the sessions in Latin, and even then most listening still relied on interpreters. One can only count on the ceremonial portions to be spoken in Latin (Extra omnes, Eligo in summen pontificem…, Acceptasne electionem de te canonice factam in Summum Pontificem? Accepto, etc.). I noticed in 2005, when the election of the present pontiff was announced, when cardinal camerlengo appeared on the balcony, he first said “brothers and sisters” in Italian, French, German, Spanish and English, beforing saying in Latin the famous words, Annuntio vobis gaudium magnum: Habemus papam!. 😦
 
Chatter163 said:
Much as I wish it were otherwise, this is no longer the case. Even at Vatican II, most of the bishops spoke in their own languages, and those listening used headphones with interpreters, as is done in the UN. Only a small number of bishops exercised their option to address the sessions in Latin, and even then most listening still relied on interpreters.
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Most bishops even today are multi-lingual. I doubt if any of them rely strictly on one language to communicate with one another or the public. Interpreters help to expedite and confirm matters but that doesn’t mean the bishops have no other recourse. At the time of Vatican Canon law was enforced strictly in its Latin interpretation. As were most of the Church documents, prayers, etc.
 
ProVobis said:
Most bishops even today are multi-lingual. I doubt if any of them rely strictly on one language to communicate with one another or the public. Interpreters help to expedite and confirm matters but that doesn’t mean the bishops have no other recourse. At the time of Vatican Canon law was enforced strictly in its Latin interpretation. As were most of the Church documents, prayers, etc.
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Not sure what this means. I don’t recall anyone claiming that most bishops were monolingual. Even though many bishops, especially Europeans, speak several languages, that does not mean that every bishop could understand every other bishop addressing the council, which is why many used headphones.

I am not sure what “At the time of Vatican Canon law was enforced strictly in its Latin interpretation” means.

Today, the two most important languages to know in the Vatican are Italian and English. Sorry to say…
 
Aelred_Minor said:
Anyway, I don’t think there’s as large a difference between the Roman dialect and standard Italian as there is for some other Italian dialects, but does anyone know how Pope Benedict speaks Italian? I’m guessing standard Italian with a Bavarian accent considering his national origin, but it would be interesting if he has actually learned and implemented any unique aspects of the Roman dialect.
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That would be my guess as well as he speaks (or rather, reads) English with a very heavy (zees and zat) accent. I heard he best expresses himself in French but I could be wrong.
 
Chatter163 said:
Not sure what this means. I don’t recall anyone claiming that most bishops were monolingual. Even though many bishops, especially Europeans, speak several languages, that does not mean that every bishop could understand every other bishop addressing the council, which is why many used headphones.
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I’d use a headphone in a Polish meeting but that doesn’t mean I couldn’t do without it. It helps to confirm what you hear is what I’m saying. They probably had a lot of printed material in their native tongue too, so what’s really your point? Latin is not really a conversational language anywhere (and that’s probably a good thing since illiterates would be less likely to change it); no need to slam it.
 
ProVobis said:
I’d use a headphone in a Polish meeting but that doesn’t mean I couldn’t do without it. It helps to confirm what you hear is what I’m saying. They probably had a lot of printed material in their native tongue too, so what’s really your point? Latin is not really a conversational language anywhere (and that’s probably a good thing since illiterates would be less likely to change it); no need to slam it.
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Slam it? Who’s slamming it? I have been involved with the Latin Mass movement for 25+ years. My point was that the bishops at V2 made a good use of headphones and interpreters. One other poster implied that discussions are still frequently held in Latin at large, official Vatican gatherings.
 
YoungTradCath said:
It so happens that the majority of speeches, homilies, etc., are given in the Italian language at the Vatican. It has been like this for quite a long time, a long time even before Vatican II.
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I think that English would have been the best language for this speech/message. English is more universal than Italian ever will be.

Anyway, I would also like to be possitive and say that I really liked when the Holy Father said Merry X-mass in Swedish. His pronounciation was really good.His next homily could be in Swedish:D
 
henrikhank said:
Laudetur Jesus Christus!
Why is the URBI ET ORBI message in Italian and not Latin which is the language of the Roman Catholic Church? Why do Catholics (especcialy the Pope) like Italian so much? Shouldn’t it be in Latin. I mean, isn’t URBI ET ORBI not just for Italians but for all people?
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Most of the people in the crowd, I presume, are Italian (that’s why he didn’t use English). On the other hand, almost none of them, I presume, would fluently understand Latin.

You have to remember that Vatican City is surrounded by Italy. Until 1929, it was part of Italy; that is, it wasn’t it’s own country until 1929.
 
Paxvobis said:
You have to remember that Vatican City is surrounded by Italy. Until 1929, it was part of Italy; that is, it wasn’t it’s own country until 1929.
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Not to get off the topic of the thread, but before 1929 its status was disputed, and it de facto operated as its own country anyway. The Lateran Treaty merely confirmed the Vatican’s position on the status of Vatican City (and Italy’s position on the status of the Papal States).
 
henrikhank said:
Laudetur Jesus Christus!
Why is the URBI ET ORBI message in Italian and not Latin which is the language of the Roman Catholic Church? Why do Catholics (especcialy the Pope) like Italian so much? Shouldn’t it be in Latin. I mean, isn’t URBI ET ORBI not just for Italians but for all people?
Click to expand...
Italian or Latin, Polish or German. I don’t understand a single word of any of those languages.

Whenever will the Church catch on to the use of technology for the masses and the Masses?
 
Barbkw said:
Italian or Latin, Polish or German. I don’t understand a single word of any of those languages.
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You mean you don’t understand any of the following:

vapor
honor
color
odor
murmur
minister
rumor
acumen
furor
animal
senator
appendix
arbiter
locus
lector
libido
magisterium
monitor
onus
doctor
error
formula
horror
fungus
index
cancer
cantor
circus
clamor
crux
vector
dimentia

??? 😉

Source:

books.google.com/books?id=91r9kWAvAAQC&pg=PA109&lpg=PA109&dq=latin±or+words+in+english+honor+color+senator&source=bl&ots=j98pKbjngz&sig=oylbgSxzs8ADqb1phtMURzMZjQQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=PZD6Ts3MDYqUgwe3wtXcBw&ved=0CCEQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=latin%20-or%20words%20in%20english%20honor%20color%20senator&f=false
 
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