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markeverett49
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I’m of two minds about this. I like church bells, but we cannot pretend that in Arizona today that people keep time by the tolling of church bells. There’s an old Johnny Mercer lyric with a line about the regularity of certain train: “Folks around these parts get the time of day / From the Atchison, Topeka and the Santa Fe.” But just as people there now uses watches, clocks, televisions, and radios to get ‘the time of day,’ so do the Catholics (and non-Catholics) around that church in Arizona. If the bells are bothering people, then the Church should be sensitive to that. Especially since, as I said, it’s not as if Catholics there will miss Mass or not pray at the right time (–who there even says the Hours on the hour anyway?) because they don’t hear a loud church bell ring?
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johnnykins
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The Cathedral in question is not Catholic - nor is the Bishop. Perhaps the issue is of concern to Catholics as a general principle. Beyond that, it’s somewhat irrelevant.
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withwind
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lizaanne
Guest
My mom was telling me about a meeting that was held in her small southern town. The residents were complaining about the train whistles. Now the train tracks in this particular town cut right down through the middle of a very charming downtown area. They have been there for over a hundred years.
I used to live in a rural area about 100 miles north of Detroit. It was beautiful farmland country. There is a dairy farm that has been there for multiple generations. People started complaining about the smells from the farm.
Sooooo - my advice?
If you don’t like train sounds - don’t buy a house by train tracks.
If you don’t like farm smells - don’t buy a house near a farm.
If you don’t like church bells - don’t buy a house near a church.
Pretty simple really. Pitiful that it has to be said.
~Liza
I used to live in a rural area about 100 miles north of Detroit. It was beautiful farmland country. There is a dairy farm that has been there for multiple generations. People started complaining about the smells from the farm.
Sooooo - my advice?
If you don’t like train sounds - don’t buy a house by train tracks.
If you don’t like farm smells - don’t buy a house near a farm.
If you don’t like church bells - don’t buy a house near a church.
Pretty simple really. Pitiful that it has to be said.
~Liza
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rlg94086
Guest
You forgot about the people who complain about airport noise after building/buying their house in a flight path…
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withwind
Guest
How about if you build a church, don’t build next to others’ houses?
We have to look at both ways. For instance, my parish just have a new church built, and we do have bell ringing every hour (not sure 24 hours). So far, nobody complains, but if many do, we have to take their complain into consideration.
We have to look at both ways. For instance, my parish just have a new church built, and we do have bell ringing every hour (not sure 24 hours). So far, nobody complains, but if many do, we have to take their complain into consideration.
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Father_of_9
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My question is whether or not the law or ordinance is enforced on all people and groups. There’s probably lots of noise in that area coming from a variety of sources. Is someone complaining just because the “noise” is coming from a church? What about cars, motorcycles, ice-cream trucks like the article mentions, etc. that produce similar or higher amounts of noise? My small town in southeast Michigan has a few churches that sound bells on the hour and also play music at 12 noon, 3 PM and 6PM for a few minutes. I really enjoy hearing it and I’m sure others do, too. I make it a point to tell my younger children that when they’re out playing they can tell what time it is by listening to the church bells. Old-fashioned? Maybe. But I think there’s a lot to be said for trying to live a simpler and slower life during these crazy times. Maybe if more people would enjoy listening to church bells instead of listening to some of the stuff on TV, radio and other electronic gadgets, they would be happier, too.
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lizaanne
Guest
I agree - you need to be respectful of what was there before you got there, and not just show up, build, and expect the world to then revolve around you. Sorry, that’s just wrong. People need to be mindful of where they are moving to, and not expect everything to change just because they showed up on the scene.
In Hamtramck there is a mosque that has the call to prayer over loud speakers.
clickondetroit.com/news/3358067/detail.html
I’m sure this is not the case everywhere, but here in SEMichigan, where we have such cultural diversity, you seem to see more tolerance as well.
~Liza
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Neil_Anthony
Guest
I like bells. Where I live, city hall has a loud bell that goes off each hour, and the parliament buildings ring a bell at least twice an hour. I like when they go off, whether from a church or a gov’t bldg.
shrug
shrug
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zaffiroborant
Guest
The ADF had an article about this and had this to say:
*“The bells at the Cathedral of Christ the King normally chime at the top of every hour from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. The bells have been registered to emit only 67 decibels from the nearest property line. A whisper is 30 decibels, and a normal conversation is about 60 to 70 decibels. Ice cream trucks are allowed to emit up to 70 decibels at a distance of 50 feet under an exemption to the city’s ordinance, but no exemption exists for church bells. In addition to Painter’s sentence, the judge issued an order restricting chimes at the church to no more than 60 decibels for two minutes on Sundays and specific religious holidays.”
*
The whole article can be read here:
alliancedefensefund.org/news/story.aspx?cid=4971
Normal conversation levels as measured at the nearest property line doesn’t seem out of line to me. If that’s the case I can complain about my next door neighbors who’s large multi-generational family eats out on their patio just about every day during the summer and who’s conversation I can clearly hear while sitting on my patio. And what’s with their kids running around playing and yelling in their yard that’s got to hit the same level (and probably spikes higher) Then there is my neighbor on the other side the early bird lawn care maniac. Why is he allowed to run his lawn mower, hedge trimmer, leaf blower, sidewalk trimmer any time between 8am and 10pm? These machines are all much louder than the bells which run from 8am to 8pm. Not to mention they all have A/C which exceeds the 60-70 decibel level of the bells and runs 24/7.
I just don’t see how a decibel level of 67 can be a problem and no it’s not equally enforced as the ADF article shows, the Ice Cream Man has an exemption. Don’t get me started on the Ice Cream Man. I am on good terms with both the neighbors mentioned and actually join the large family after dinner and Mr. Early Bird is very helpful with our own lawn and garden (like a lawn mentor) but the Ice Cream Man I seriously want him out of town. And it makes me mad that he is given an exemption in Phoenix and the church bells are prosecuted.
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JReducation
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rlg94086
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Perhaps if the church changed its bell-tone to *The Entertainer *(Joplin) played out-of-tune over tinny speakers, they could get an exemption too…it may require more ice cream socials though…
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Morwenna
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Out our way it’s Turkey in the Straw over tinny speakers … how the drivers can listen to that for hours each day without going mad is truly mind-boggling. Wonder if they wear ear-plugs?
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Ani_Ibi
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I think the Ice Cream Man should be made to change his chimes to AC/DC.
:shrug:
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NewEnglandPriest
Guest
This just reinforces the fact that clergy always need to cultivate a good relationship with the local police and firefighters.
Its a joke but its also true. Our parish has a neighbor who calls the police everytime we have a large funeral because people end up parking on both sides of the street, which is technically illegal. So they call the police and the police say that they’ll send someone over to check it out. But gee whiz, it seems that an officer can nevr get there to check on it till after 11am at which time the funeral has already left and the cars are gone.
As I said, cultivating a good relationship with the police pays off.
Its a joke but its also true. Our parish has a neighbor who calls the police everytime we have a large funeral because people end up parking on both sides of the street, which is technically illegal. So they call the police and the police say that they’ll send someone over to check it out. But gee whiz, it seems that an officer can nevr get there to check on it till after 11am at which time the funeral has already left and the cars are gone.
As I said, cultivating a good relationship with the police pays off.
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Ani_Ibi
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Perhaps if the police had church bells on the top of their cars and the church had a police siren in its bell tower? naaaah… I’m just being silly.
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quiet52
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The purpose of church bells aren’t to let the surrounding community know the time. They’re to let people know the service is about to begin.
My parish doesn’t ring its bells for early morning Masses, out of consideration for neighboring residents. But we do ring them a few minutes before the other Masses. No complaints from anyone, as far as I know.
My parish doesn’t ring its bells for early morning Masses, out of consideration for neighboring residents. But we do ring them a few minutes before the other Masses. No complaints from anyone, as far as I know.
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MarkBrown
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Bishop Painter is a Bishop in the Charismatic Episcopal Church.
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Ridgerunner
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60 db isn’t very loud. If I’m not greatly mistaken, the OSHA standard for hearing protection for workplace noise is 80 db. And that’s right there next to the worker so he gets the 80 db full blast. An audiologist once compared 80 db to me, to having a semi pass you in your car on the highway.
So 60 db at the property line sure isn’t very much noise, and it would naturally diminish with distance, particularly in a neighborhood where there would be houses and other noise-dampening things everywhere.
So 60 db at the property line sure isn’t very much noise, and it would naturally diminish with distance, particularly in a neighborhood where there would be houses and other noise-dampening things everywhere.
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