US Bishops' Conference Largely Disappointed by Debt Ceiling Agreement

[CMatt25]

Round and round we go. Where do we stop? Nobody knows…

When Christ returns

 

[CMatt25]

So do it and stop asking others to do it for you.

I can not believe this. You and others miss Prodigal Son’s entire point. His point is not that he isn’t called to give. But that when collective private giving leaves a gap and government offers to help, Jesus Christ would not turn down any such help He could get for the poor and the sick.

 

[CMatt25]

And saying that Christ didn’t give a mandate to transfer the care of the poor to government is different how?

No difference Prod. Other than you did ask if we are a Christian nation or not if we reject government supplementing private giving to a significant enough degree in order to make a difference.

 

[rlg94086]

It absolutely makes sense.

Bob: “When we quote direct teachings of the church concerning a Catholic not being able to vote for pro-abortion candidate”

Fact is a Catholic can vote for the candidate they so choose. And the teachings of the Catholic Church still say they are a Catholic.

Um…sure…but Bob didn’t say anything about a person’s vote determining whether they are Catholic. He said the Church instructs Catholics regading voting on life issues.

 

[ishii]

It absolutely makes sense.

Bob: “When we quote direct teachings of the church concerning a Catholic not being able to vote for pro-abortion candidate”

Fact is a Catholic can vote for the candidate they so choose. And the teachings of the Catholic Church still say they are a Catholic.

Yes. A Catholic can vote for a pro-abortion guy like Obama and still say they are Catholic, but they are a Catholic who voted against Catholic moral teaching on the sanctitiy of life. I wouldn’t want to be in that group. Would you?

Ishii

 

[ishii]

I can not believe this. You and others miss Prodigal Son’s entire point. His point is not that he isn’t called to give. But that when collective private giving leaves a gap and government offers to help, Jesus Christ would not turn down any such help He could get for the poor and the sick.

But would Jesus want government programs that encourage the societal ills - illegitimacy, drugs, dependency on govt. handouts, etc. to be funded? I don’t think so.

Ishii

 

[CMatt25]

This is decent morality. It is indeed unfair to cut programs for the poor and the middle-class given the glaring income-inequality that has developed in the US in recent years.

The rich can be taxed more, and should be taxed more. This should happen before contemplating cuts.

Watch out Persuader. Or the next thing you’ll know they’ll be judging you of the sin of envy if you get the same judgement as I do when I speak of decency, some fairness, and justice. But and Peace.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

But would Jesus want government programs that encourage the societal ills - illegitimacy, drugs, dependency on govt. handouts, etc. to be funded? I don’t think so.

Ishii

Did Christ avoid the sinners? Did He widely condemn them?

 

[rlg94086]

Did Christ avoid the sinners? Did He widely condemn them?

That’s not what ishii asked. Would Jesus encourage something that brought more sinfulness?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Yes. A Catholic can vote for a pro-abortion guy like Obama and still say they are Catholic, but they are a Catholic who voted against Catholic moral teaching on the sanctitiy of life. I wouldn’t want to be in that group. Would you?

Ishii

That’s where you’re wrong. They may have voted for another candidate, but as long as they did not vote for the other candidate precisely to support that candidate’s view on abortion, they did not vote against Catholic moral teaching, according to Cardinal Ratzinger/Pope Benedict.

The group I would concern myself with would be the judgmental group condemning everyone without knowing what’s in their heart, or their reasons. If they try to explain either on these forums they are the butt end of condescension, personal attacks, spins of what they say, falsehoods, and many other things that totally lack any charity. They are pushed away by people who seem to readily further divide His Church.

 

[wynnejj]

Did Christ avoid the sinners? Did He widely condemn them?

Did he enable them?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

That’s not what ishii asked. Would Jesus encourage something that brought more sinfulness?

He did not avoid the sinners. It was for the sinners that He came into the world, not the righteous.

Jesus said feed the hungry, cloth the naked, give shelter to the homeless, and care for the sick. Did He tell us to do things that brought on more sinfulness?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Did he enable them?

People are telling the reason they support social programs is because Jesus said to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give shelter to the homeless, and care for the sick. Did Christ teach us to enable what you view to be wrong?

 

[rlg94086]

He did not avoid the sinners. It was for the sinners that He came into the world, not the righteous.

Jesus said feed the hungry, cloth the naked, give shelter to the homeless, and care for the sick. Did He tell us to do things that brought on more sinfulness?

You’re not answering the question. I can only guess it is because you don’t understand it.

 

[CMatt25]

Are you being serious? The reason they pay a high percentage of taxable income is because of income inequality in the first place. If wages were higher for the lower brackets, they could pay a higher percentage of taxable income. The fact that the higher bracket pay a large percentage of income tax would be a problem if they paid a high percentage of their own income. They don’t. Taxes are at a historical low. When the higher brackets can pay such a high percentage of income tax without paying a high percentage of their own income, there cannot be much income for the lower brackets to pay with, can there? This is the situation. So, unless you suggest some way for wages to increase dramatically for the lower brackets, higher taxes seem quite acceptable. The rich can certainly afford it.

Wealth also factor into this. Imagine wealth as a cake. In recent years (mainly since the 70’s) that cake has grown disproportionately so that the higher brackets own more and more of the cake. The top 1% control about 40% of the wealth, whereas the bottom 40% control 0.3% of the wealth. Who are capable of sacrifice in this context?

Charity is obviously insufficient or there would be no need for these government programs in the first place. These things are obvious. We have to work with the reality in which we find ourselves, and in this reality it is not feasible to hand over responsibility to charities.

Excellent post. But yes Estesbob keeps repeating those same numbers over and over so I guess he takes himself seriously.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

You’re not answering the question. I can only guess it is because you don’t understand it.

Jesus encouraged feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, giving shelter to the poor, and caring for the sick. Those are the things ishii said created ‘sinfulness’, as you refer to it.

But would Jesus want government programs that encourage the societal ills - illegitimacy, drugs, dependency on govt. handouts, etc. to be funded? I don’t think so.

 

[CMatt25]

Um…sure…but Bob didn’t say anything about a person’s vote determining whether they are Catholic. He said the Church instructs Catholics regading voting on life issues.

Sigh. He spoke of a Catholic “not being able to vote” for a particular candidate. But yes they are and if they do they still remain a Catholic according to Catholic teaching that is. But forget about it.

 

[rlg94086]

Jesus encouraged feeding the hungry, clothing the naked, giving shelter to the poor, and caring for the sick. Those are the things ishii said created ‘sinfulness’, as you refer to it.

The key term was “government program.” Jesus encouraged care for the poor. If a government program worsens society, then that is ostensibly making things worse for the poor. In your extremely twisted logic, you are saying that it is okay to make things worse for the poor through government programs because Jeaus said we should care for the poor.

 

[wynnejj]

People are telling the reason they support social programs is because Jesus said to feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give shelter to the homeless, and care for the sick. Did Christ teach us to enable what you view to be wrong?

No. I assume you are referring to my points about incurring debt to maintain levels of charity for foreign nations from our children’s future, promoting family planning internationally through contraception & abortion. I assume you are referring to public funding of birth control centers and abortion mills. In fact, I suspect it would be better that I put a millstone around my neck if I was an “enabler” of such things.

 

[rlg94086]

Sigh. He spoke of a Catholic “not being able to vote” for a particular candidate. But yes they are and if they do they still remain a Catholic according to Catholic teaching that is. But forget about it.

Sure…let’s forget about it, since you arent making sense…