US Bishops' Conference Largely Disappointed by Debt Ceiling Agreement

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rlg94086 said:
Christ taught that we should set up up large bureaucratic welfare systems? I must have missed that part of the Bible. Citation?

So, you believe Christ was in favor of able-bodied people milking a welfare system, too? You must have a different version of the Bible. 😛
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Bureaucratic welfare system of the country that identifies itself as ‘Christian’ by the majority of people? Our country is a Christian community, or so it claims to be. As a Christian community we are called to help those less fortunate. Generalizations are being made that all have avenues to lift themselves up, which appears to be a cover up for a lack of willingness to share, when it is a reality that there are people in dire need. It seems some people’s desire to catch those wrongfully using a system is even if it means letting the truly needy fall between the cracks.

I try not to read scriptures through a political lens. Christ did not qualify such as the spin you’re espousing to support a political view. Yes, we are called to that which is right and that which is wrong, but we are not to judge people, even to the extent of judging them as sinners stealing/milking. If they are doing wrong, He is the judge.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Bureaucratic welfare system of the country that identifies itself as ‘Christian’ by the majority of people? Our country is a Christian community, or so it claims to be. As a Christian community we are called to help those less fortunate. Generalizations are being made that all have avenues to lift themselves up, which appears to be a cover up for a lack of willingness to share, when it is a reality that there are people in dire need. It seems some people’s desire to catch those wrongfully using a system is even if it means letting the truly needy fall between the cracks.

I try not to read scriptures through a political lens. Christ did not qualify such as the spin you’re espousing to support a political view. Yes, we are called to that which is right and that which is wrong, but we are not to judge people, even to the extent of judging them as sinners stealing/milking. If they are doing wrong, He is the judge.
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Another non-answer, full of generalizations while, at the same time, claiming the thread is full of generalizations. 👍

Christ taught that we should care for the poor. I don’t believe He would be opposed to all government action to help the poor, but I do believe He would be opposed to large bureaucracies “depriving citizens of their responsibilities.” Why do I believe that? Well, because His Church teaches it through the Magisterium.

Do I believe that Christ taught that we should continue a large bureaucratic welfare system because He supposedly said we shouldn’t judge the actions of people on the dole? Of course not, because He taught no such thing.

You, my friend, are the one spinning Our Lord’s teaching to support your political beliefs.
 
rlg94086 said:
Are you familiar with the regulation and federal bureaucracy involved in our healthcare? It is hardly unfettered capitalism. 😛
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What regulation and bureaucracy? The same one that has enabled medical costs to balloon above those of other wealthy countries who, unlike us, generally provide medical care to their entire populations? When a drug company comes out with new versions of old drugs every four years just to take advantage of patent laws and squeeze money out of sick people, with the collusion of the medical establishment, is that not unbridled greed?

Unfettered capitalism (profiteering and the endless demand of consumers for cheap goods) is also what drives companies to exploit lax labor laws overseas even while people in their own country languish for jobs.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
Bureaucratic welfare system of the country that identifies itself as ‘Christian’ by the majority of people? Our country is a Christian community, or so it claims to be. As a Christian community we are called to help those less fortunate. Generalizations are being made that all have avenues to lift themselves up, which appears to be a cover up for a lack of willingness to share, when it is a reality that there are people in dire need. It seems some people’s desire to catch those wrongfully using a system is even if it means letting the truly needy fall between the cracks.

I try not to read scriptures through a political lens. Christ did not qualify such as the spin you’re espousing to support a political view. Yes, we are called to that which is right and that which is wrong, but we are not to judge people, even to the extent of judging them as sinners stealing/milking. If they are doing wrong, He is the judge.
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Again, where has anyone implied that people in dire need shouldn’t get help?

And you are unclear on teaching regarding judging. We can judge acts to be of grave matter but cannot judge full culpability/mitigating circumstances. Parents who spend money tagged for school supplies on TV’s and cell phones are dishonest and theives. People who are able bodied but refuse to go to school, or are unwilling to work (or even seriously look for it) are also dishonest. People who vote in certain politicians who promise to tax the other guy are jealous.

For years, people have wanted reform for welfare, SS, etc. so these things didn’t go broke so the truly needy still got the help they needed. And no one listened. Now that drastic cuts need to made the truly need will suffer.
 
politicsdaily.com/2010/11/19/pope-is-no-tea-partier-benedict-backs-guaranteed-health-care-fo/
“It is necessary to work with greater commitment at all levels so that the right to health is rendered effective, favoring access to primary health care,” Benedict said in a message on Thursday to the 25th annual conference of the Vatican office that promotes health care ministry.
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“Health justice should be among the priorities of governments and international institutions,” he added.
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The pope said that establishing this goal requires “a true distributive justice that guarantees to all, on the basis of objective needs, adequate care,” and, “The social doctrine of the Church has always evidenced the importance of distributive justice and of social justice in the different sectors of human relations.”
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Benedict XVI’s Plea: Put the Poor at the Heart of Catholic Life
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“[C]harity must animate the entire lives of the lay faithful and therefore also their political activity, lived as social charity”
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The Church brings together moral principles taught by the Pope, our everyday experience, our structures, our leaders and many people to stand with the poor and work for greater charity and justice in our nation and around the world. The bishops’ conference advocates for poor children, families and low-wage workers in economic policy; the federal budget; climate change legislation; affordable housing legislation; HIV/AIDS relief; and, the Farm bill. We believe how the “least of these” are treated is a moral measure of our society.
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ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS BENEDICT XVI
TO THE PARTICIPANTS IN THE THIRTY-FOURTH CONFERENCE
OF THE FOOD AND AGRICULTURE ORGANIZATION
The united effort of the international community to eliminate malnutrition and promote genuine development necessarily calls for clear structures of management and oversight, and a realistic assessment of the resources needed to address a wide range of different situations. It requires the contribution of every member of society - individuals, volunteer organizations, businesses, and local and national governments - always with due regard for those ethical and moral principles which are the common patrimony of all people and the foundation of all social life. The international community must always avail itself of this precious treasure of common values since genuine and lasting development can only be furthered in a spirit of cooperation and a willingness to share professional and technical resources.
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ADDRESS OF HIS HOLINESS POPE BENEDICT XVI
TO THE MEMBERS OF THE DIPLOMATIC CORPS
Ladies and Gentlemen, if we wish to combat poverty, we must invest first and foremost in the young, setting before them an ideal of authentic fraternity. During my apostolic visits in the past year, I was able to meet many young people, especially in the extraordinary context of the celebration of the Twenty-third World Youth Day in Sydney, Australia. My apostolic journeys, beginning with my visit to the United States, also allowed me to assess the expectations of many sectors of society with regard to the Catholic Church. In this sensitive phase of the history of humanity, marked by uncertainties and questioning, many people expect the Church to exercise clearly and courageously her mission of evangelization and her work of human promotion. It was in this context that I gave my address at the headquarters of the United Nations Organization: sixty years after the adoption of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, I wished to stress that this document is founded on the dignity of the human person, which in turn is based on our shared human nature, which transcends our different cultures.
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The spin attacks and ad hominems certainly make me believe I am right in my views. They lack adding any valid information to the discussion, as well as any charity. It seems to be a tactic to promote a political agenda only and reeks of ‘everyone for themselves’.
 
seekerz said:
What regulation and bureaucracy? The same one that has enabled medical costs to balloon above those of other wealthy countries who, unlike us, generally provide medical care to their entire populations? When a drug company comes out with new versions of old drugs every four years just to take advantage of patent laws and squeeze money out of sick people, with the collusion of the medical establishment, is that not unbridled greed?

Unfettered capitalism (profiteering and the endless demand of consumers for cheap goods) is also what drives companies to exploit lax labor laws overseas even while people in their own country languish for jobs.
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Based on your posts, you have no idea of what unfettered capitalism is. Healthcare is full of regulations and bureaucracy. Labor laws in the US are an example of regulation, as are the laws governing the import and export of goods, safety regulations, etc. We don’t have unfettered capitalism.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
The spin attacks and ad hominems certainly make me believe I am right in my views. They lack adding any valid information to the discussion, as well as any charity. It seems to be a tactic to promote a political agenda only and reeks of ‘everyone for themselves’.
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So you can’t find the bible quote?
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
The spin attacks and ad hominems certainly make me believe I am right in my views. They lack adding any valid information to the discussion, as well as any charity. It seems to be a tactic to promote a political agenda only and reeks of ‘everyone for themselves’.
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You accused me of spinning first and told a bunch of us that our views were unChristian. 😛

Hypocrisy, I have met thee.
 
seekerz said:
Oh, that wouldn’t surprise me in the least - why would regulation in an “unfettered capitalist” setting restrain greed rather than foster it?
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Apparently you are unware that the government is also greedy?
 
rlg94086 said:
Based on your posts, you have no idea of what unfettered capitalism is. Healthcare is full of regulations and bureaucracy. Labor laws in the US are an example of regulation, as are the laws governing the import and export of goods, safety regulations, etc. We don’t have unfettered capitalism.
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Based on my posts, you will also notice that I don’t consider regulation as "fetters’. Indeed, the law is sometimes manipulated to fuel greed: see my previous comments about pharmaceutical companies.

P.S. The financial collapse brought about by the collective greed of multiple stakeholders, is further testament to the ineffectiveness of what regulation there appears to be. Who was minding the store while the “greed is good” mantra reigned on Wall Street?
 
 
seekerz said:
Based on my posts, you will also notice that I don’t consider regulation as "fetters’. Indeed, the law is sometimes manipulated to fuel greed: see my previous comments about pharmaceutical companies.
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Exactly. That is why I said you have no idea what unfettered capitalism is.
 
London’s ‘poor and needy’ are showing where unlimited government subsidy leads.
 
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