US Bishops Sought Delay on Gay-Seminarian Document

[Libero]

Yes, this does seem like pandering on the bishops part but as the article said, this is for the entire Church not just the church in the U.S. What troubles me more about this article was another link from the same issue that stated that the EU would sanction any countries that did not accept and permit “same-sex marriages” - this indeed is a scary threat. Western Europe has completely gone off the rails in my opinion. They are becoming an increasingly secular and godless society.

And whilst some here may very well disagree with me, I do not think that Pope Benedict is really the right man to reverse and correct this issue.

NB - This is not a personal attack against the pope, merely me saying that I feel the style of pope Benedict is not the style that will dramatically assist the church, the very “hollywood style” of JP2 would have been better I feel. Once again, I am not attacking the pope.

 

[bones_IV]

Libero:

And whilst some here may very well disagree with me, I do not think that Pope Benedict is really the right man to reverse and correct this issue.

NB - This is not a personal attack against the pope, merely me saying that I feel the style of pope Benedict is not the style that will dramatically assist the church, the very “hollywood style” of JP2 would have been better I feel. Once again, I am not attacking the pope.

What do you mean? Two contradictory statements I see. The pope is still the right guy from what I see.

 

[Confiteor]

I recommend reading what Cardinal Zenon Grocholewski said about his Congregation’s document:

“In regard to people who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies, we are profoundly convinced that it is an obstacle for a correct relationship with men and women, with negative consequences for the Church’s pastoral development.”

“Obviously, if we speak of deep-seated tendencies, this means that there can also be transitory tendencies, which do not constitute an obstacle. But in these cases, they must have disappeared three years before diaconal ordination,” specified the cardinal. "

catholic.net/global_catholic_news/template_news.phtml?channel_id=2&news_id=80818

He was also quoted as giving a couple of examples of “transitory” homosexual tendencies. but the intent appears to rule out anyone whose homosexuality is well established (“deep seated” as opposed to confused adolescents) even if they have been celibate for any number of years so long as they remain homosexual in orientation. It is not enough to be celibate.

 

[fkpl]

otm:

I don’t have the document at hand, but my recollection is that the document can be read without distortion to allow the ordination of some who have been celibate for a period of time. There was a good bit of commentary by those who wanted an absolute ban that Rome did not give one.

This is the “Mahoney Interpretation” and it is disingenuous. The instruction stated that a person with “deep seated homosexual tendencies” or anyone who affirms or celebrates the so called gay lifestyle is not a suitable candidate for ordination. It has nothing to do with celibacy. A celibate homosexual is not qualified to receive the sacrament of Holy Orders, full stop. The instruction excepts only a “transitory” experience more than three years in the past. If “transitory” it was a passing phase, by definition, and its last manifestation must have been no less than three years previous.

The instruction, particularly as supplemented by Cardinal Grochalski’s (sp?) supplemental comments is clear and unambiguous. Sure the folks at Lambda Legal Defense Fund and GLAAD don’t like it. Neither does Satan. That’s how it should be.

 

[Libero]

What do you mean? Two contradictory statements I see. The pope is still the right guy from what I see.

Maybe to you, but we are in two very different scenarios, you are an adult who has grown up in the faith, in a country shaped by morals and christainity, and also one that still sticks with its religion quite well.

I on the other hand have grown up in a European country that has abandoned the faith, has become almost completely removed from its moral roots. I do not think that Benedict will bring people back to faith, purely because of his style. He has been in CDF for years now, yet JPII was an active bishop before hand, I worry about Benedict connecting with people, particularly the youth, I just do not think that our Pope will attract the attention of so many non Christians and new “agressive atheist” teens as the previous pope.

Note - having said this, Benedict does also have very good characteristics that are clearly desireable.

 

[bones_IV]

Libero:

Maybe to you, but we are in two very different scenarios, you are an adult who has grown up in the faith, in a country shaped by morals and christainity, and also one that still sticks with its religion quite well.

I on the other hand have grown up in a European country that has abandoned the faith, has become almost completely removed from its moral roots. I do not think that Benedict will bring people back to faith, purely because of his style. He has been in CDF for years now, yet JPII was an active bishop before hand, I worry about Benedict connecting with people, particularly the youth, I just do not think that our Pope will attract the attention of so many non Christians and new “agressive atheist” teens as the previous pope.

Note - having said this, Benedict does also have very good characteristics that are clearly desireable.

Libero, I see quite the contrary. He’s attracting quite a crowd and his general audiences are larger than what JPII’s were.

 

[Libero]

Libero, I see quite the contrary. He’s attracting quite a crowd and his general audiences are larger than what JPII’s were.

Alas that depends on where you look, whislt the pope may very well be attracting a crowd in Germany etc, he is doing quite the opposite in England, frequently receiving criticism.

I nearly lost it today in my history lesson when my teacher implied that the pope was a Nazi and that it was a choice he made. After having previously implied that the Catholic church turned a blind eye to what the Nazis were doing to the Jewish people.

I am getting rather annoyed with it, whilst I may not think that Benedict is always the right man for the job, I don’t like this mocking of him, particularly not in a school.