US bishops try to calm anxiety over pope

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McCall1981 said:
Catholics may soon be faced with a situation in the Church that cannot be accepted in good conscience, and that is very frightening.
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I thought that until your conscience was in agreement with church teaching, it couldn’t be a “good conscience”.

Have I misunderstand this?
 
McCall1981 said:
Anxiety and fear are running very high right now in the Church, and I don’t think that’s very debatable.
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Although anxiety and fear are running high in a small segment of the Church, who may be over-represented on this site, I think a poll of most of the Church would indicate that the predominant feeling is hope.
 
Here’s a quote by a rabbi that I think sums up how Pope Francis is thinking:

Fighting evil is a very noble activity when it must be done. But it is not our mission in life. Our job is to bring in more light.
  • Tzvi Freeman
As to what’s being more greatly emphasized in the Church under Pope Francis, I think that can be summed up with the two commandments of Christ (see my signature).

LOVE! ❤️
 
AnnArbor said:
Although anxiety and fear are running high in a small segment of the Church, who may be over-represented on this site, I think a poll of most of the Church would indicate that the predominant feeling is hope.
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Well, given that the majority of Catholics don’t really care what the Church teaches about moral issues anyway, that might be true.
 
gilliam said:
If they wanted to endorse the idea of communion for those who divorced and remarried, they would have but there wasn’t a strong enough minority to even place such a paragraph in the document to be voted down. Sorry to burst anyone’s bubble here, but such an idea isn’t going anywhere. Instead it looks like there may be an interest in trying to make those who are divorced and remarried better ministered to. That isn’t the same as giving them communion.

The synod was simply a discussion. They didn’t ‘enact’ anything. They didn’t have the power to ‘enact’ anything. A synod is NOT a council.

There is no evidence the Holy Father endorses such an idea.
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Did not the final document discuss it as an option to be further discussed?
Certainly streamlining the annulment process was also discussed and I agree that’s the most likely outcome next year.
 
McCall1981 said:
Well, given that the majority of Catholics don’t really care what the Church teaches about moral issues, that might be true.
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That seems to be a non sequitur. This pope has not said or done anything to indicate he does not support the Church’s teachings about moral issues.
 
AnnArbor said:
That seems to be a non sequitur. This pope has not said or done anything to indicate he does not support the Church’s teachings about moral issues.
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I’m not saying he did.

You said you think a poll of the whole Church would indicate hope, or non-anxiety. Since the majority of Catholics don’t really care what the Church teaches on moral issues in the first place, you’re probably right.

But I think if you confined poll to orthodox or practicing Catholics, you would find a significant amount of anxiety.
 
McCall1981 said:
I’m not saying he did.

You said you think a poll of the whole Church would indicate hope, or non-anxiety. Since the majority of Catholics don’t really care what the Church teaches on moral issues in the first place, you’re probably right.

But I think if you confined poll to orthodox or practicing Catholics, you would find a significant amount of anxiety.
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That’s my point – I don’t understand why. If orthodox/practicing Catholics are reading the pope’s actual words and teachings, then they should have no fear or anxiety. And actually, most of the practicing Catholics I know feeling a sense of renewal and hope right now.
 
McCall1981 said:
But I think if you confined poll to orthodox or practicing Catholics, you would find a significant amount of anxiety.
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Please be careful, however, not to imply that it is the practicing, orthodox Catholics who are more likely to have anxiety over Pope Francis, or the opposite fallacious notion, that it is mostly unorthodox, non-practicing Catholics who have no anxiety over our Holy Father. Anxiety is troublesome enough without the added burden of what might be construed as pride. 😉
 
AnnArbor said:
That’s my point – I don’t understand why. If orthodox/practicing Catholics are reading the pope’s actual words and teachings, then they should have no fear or anxiety. And actually, most of the practicing Catholics I know feeling a sense of renewal and hope right now.
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Well, I guess we’ve just had different experiences then, because the practicing Catholics I know are not feeling that. Based on people I know, Catholic media, and comments from the hierarchy, there seems to me to be anxiety at all levels of the Church.

🤷
 
AnnArbor said:
That’s my point – I don’t understand why. If orthodox/practicing Catholics are reading the pope’s actual words and teachings, then they should have no fear or anxiety. And actually, most of the practicing Catholics I know feeling a sense of renewal and hope right now.
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That’s just it. We only hear the translations. Does he mean “capitalism” and “libertarianism” the way we know it, for example? What comparisons do we have with other Popes, who seldom put things out in Italian? That is what seems to be the problem, while the press seems to enjoy confusing the issues. When MSNBC starts praising the Pope every 5 minutes, I do get worried.
McCall1981 said:
Well, I guess we’ve just had different experiences then, because the practicing Catholics I know are not feeling that. Based on people I know, Catholic media, and comments from the hierarchy, there seems to me to be anxiety at all levels of the Church.
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That’s my perception as well. And the more they try to assure us everything is okay, it gets even more troubling.
 
ProVobis said:
That’s my perception as well. And the more they try to assure us everything is okay, it gets even more troubling.
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Yeah, either way the fact that they are trying to reassure us means they know they need to reassure us.

Speaking of which, I wrote a letter to my Bishop expressing my concerns and asking for advice. I heard back right away from a Priest on the Bishop’s staff, and the reply was very validating and reassuring. It was quite an encouraging experience.
 
ProVobis said:
That’s my perception as well. And the more they try to assure us everything is okay, it gets even more troubling.
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Yes, this is exactly how I feel too. I don’t mean to sound defensive, but I find the “everything’s all right; your anxiety is misplaced or worse yet a deliberate lack of faith, hope and/or obedience” argument more than a little patronizing. However, I do not believe it is intended that way. Reminds me a little bit of Job’s friends. 😉

I think you have a responsibility to keep a watchful, prudent eye on the situation (and don’t condone doctrinal backflips). That is what the faithful do; that is fulfilling your duty. Since I have made my peace with that, I am ok, the occasional panic attack aside. And I agree there a lot of orthodox laity, clergy and bishops in the same boat. I actually find that very heartening. I openly admit I don’t know where Pope Francis stands and I don’t know that I can trust him. Admitting that helps me; denying it exacerbates the situation. I’m trying, I’m trying…
 
gilliam said:
If they wanted to endorse the idea of communion for those who divorced and remarried, they would have but there wasn’t a strong enough minority to even place such a paragraph in the document to be voted down.
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But that is the issue, the synod addressed it, it was included in the final document, and a final decision will be made at the ordinary general assembly of the bishops next year. The question is very much alive and this is precisely the issue that has caused the anxiety the US bishops are now trying to calm.52. The synod father also considered the possibility of giving the divorced and remarried access to the Sacraments of Penance and the Eucharist. Some synod fathers insisted on maintaining the present regulations, because of the constitutive relationship between participation in the Eucharist and communion with the Church as well as the teaching on the indissoluble character of marriage. Others expressed a more individualized approach, permitting access in certain situations and with certain well-defined conditions, primarily in irreversible situations and those involving moral obligations towards children who would have to endure unjust suffering. Access to the sacraments might take place if preceded by a penitential practice, determined by the diocesan bishop. The subject needs to be thoroughly examined, bearing in mind the distinction between an objective sinful situation and extenuating circumstances, given that “imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors” (Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1735).
press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/en/bollettino/pubblico/2014/10/18/0770/03044.html
There is no evidence the Holy Father endorses such an idea.
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Even aside from the fact that Cardinal Kasper has strongly implied the pope supports his position, the fact that the issue was taken up and included in the final document is a good indication the pope doesn’t oppose it.

You’ve misjudged the significance of the problem.

Ender
 
After the October Synod on the Family, I think there’s very good reason for anxiety, and the explanation that it’s the newsmedia’s fault is getting tiresome.
 
Tom at his Disputations blog put it well in an illustration:

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

*With the caveat that it’s not so much optimism as it is wishful thinking, and it’s not so much pessimism as it is resentment at not being the pope yourself.
 
One thing that Pope Francis has unsurfaced by his pontificate, is that ‘conservative’ means such different things to each different country. I think we need a new category to appease everyone. Something like Pope Francis is a conservative liberal.
 
I have to disagree. Generally speaking, Francis is most definitely removing conservatives (“purge” is too strong a word), and I think that’s pretty clear.

The issue is that people are under the impression that if Francis is removing conservatives it must mean there is a nefarious, sinister plot afoot.

All he’s doing is tending to promote those that think similarly to him, and tending to remove those that don’t. Of course he is. That’s what all people in leadership positions do. That’s what all Popes do. Benedict and JPII did the same thing (though in different directions). If we had a conservative Pope he’d be tending to remove liberals and promote conservatives.

Just IMO of course, but it seems pretty obvious to me 🤷
 
McCall1981 said:
conservatives.

Just IMO of course, but it seems pretty obvious to me 🤷
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Well, seeing as you didn’t engage any of the actual points made, I’d say yes, it is indeed, “Just IMO”. Kinda like my preference for pie over cake.
 
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