US Catholic hierarchy shows support for legislation requiring massive tax hike [CWN]

[NReily]

The hierarchy doesn’t seem to “get it” - higher taxes = less in the collection plate. How long before dioceses in the U.S. go broke?

Exactly, which is especially troubling when the average Catholic does not put in a lot into the collection plate already

 

[peregrinus_WA]

I do not know about anyone else here, but South America (especially Argentina) is looking good right now. npatrol:

 

[peary]

I do not know about anyone else here, but South America (especially Argentina) is looking good right now. npatrol:

I wish our president looked like the president of Argentina

 

[Georgia]

When the bishops step outside their expertise, trouble follows. The simple fact is they are not living the life of the people in the pews and are somewhat insulated from our experiences.

Bishops don’t pay the power bill. They don’t have kids to feed and to send to college. None has to worry about the home mortgage.

Faith and morals are where they should keep their statements. When they come out in favor of something that will drive the economy over a cliff, their opinions are suspect.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

These men are liberals, not Catholics. Wolves in shephard’s clothing.

How exactly are they not Catholic?

 

[mdgspencer]

Several decades ago committees of the U.S. bishop’s organization issued an endless series of statements on social and political issues that no one paid any attention to, partly no doubt because they were so frequent. Then some years ago the bishops together voted that none of these committees could issue a statement for the public unless the bishops voted on it in one of their general meetings. That meant that there were very few such statements (though they did for example vote in 2004 to say that pro-abotion politicians should not be honored by Catholic schools). The news article that the opening poster posted gave a personal by one bishop, which the headline of the news article misrepresented as a statement by all the U.S. bishops.
I agree that the statements that were issued several decades ago, often on complex political issues, were issued by committes, including lay people, who were not experts in tbe areas they addressed. However, luckily these day have been over for some years.

When the bishops step outside their expertise, trouble follows. The simple fact is they are not living the life of the people in the pews and are somewhat insulated from our experiences.

Bishops don’t pay the power bill. They don’t have kids to feed and to send to college. None has to worry about the home mortgage.

Faith and morals are where they should keep their statements. When they come out in favor of something that will drive the economy over a cliff, their opinions are suspect.

 

[Caveman]

From CatholicCulture.org; (first 3 paragraphs)

**
US Catholic hierarchy shows support for legislation requiring massive tax hike**

The US bishops have given their enthusiastic support to the Waxman-Markey bill, a piece of legislation designed to address climate change, which Republican opponents have characterized as entailing “the largest tax increase in American history.”

The American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009 proposes a complicated series of schemes known as “cap and trade,” ultimately imposing taxes on the carbon-dioxide emissions that are cited as a major factor in global warming. Even before the 1,200-page legislation was made available to Congress, the members of the House of Representatives received a letter from two leading representatives of the American Church, giving their strong endorsement for the bill.

Bishop Howard Hubbard, who chairs the US bishops’ committee on international justice and peace; and Ken Hackett, the president of Catholic Relief Services, welcomed the introduction of the Waxman-Markey bill. They criticized the legislation only because, in their view, it did not include adequate funding to protect the poor-- in the US and abroad-- from the bill’s economic impact. Bishop Hubbard and Hackett argued that “the funding resources committed to international adaptation fall fundamentally short of what is needed.” Their letter also suggested measures to protect churches and non-profit agencies from the adverse economic effects.

 

[Appleby]

What I have noticed here in Kanukistan is that the people proposing massive punishing taxes on Them always assume that they personally will be exempt from paying and will only have cash ladled into their greedy little hands.

Currently we in Ontario are in the midst of a massive collapse due to the destruction of the auto industry and its spin-offs and the large law firms including the one I used to work for are laying off people in the dozens at a time. In the middle of this, the city of Toronto has gone on strike. There is no garbage collection, the pools are closed, the government daycare and community centres, some of the libraries, the ferry to the Islands (and hence the businesses on the Island, including an amusement park that laid off 400 college students hired for the summer), no summer camps for the kids, and no Canada Day celebrations (although they were too frightened to cancel the Gay Pride festivities which left the city ankle deep in garbage and the city union thugs tried to prevent volunteers or private companies from cleaning it up) – because they Demand Their Goodies. The Premier has helped the situation by proposing the sales tax be harmonized and rise from 5% to 13% and cover everything from new homes to haircuts.

The only thing nobody can understand here in this socialist paradise is that fifty people cannot grab cash out of the Giant Money Pot if nobody is putting any cash back in – and right now nobody has any cash to contribute. The answer of all the socialists is to demand that the money flow. I would refer them to King Canute, except they are too stupid to know who he was. Those of us practicing private charity are bailing with forks.

In a world where socialism is collapsing on every side, America has decided now is the time to be Socialist.

One can only shake her head and repeat that old proverb to the Hippie Scum who are finally seeing Tom Haydens Manifesto as law: Be Careful What You Wish For, Lest You Get It.

 

[Don_L]

Are the US Bishops the same ones that accidently managed to get $15 Million or so into the hands of suspected lawbreakers ACORN, that put the Obamacide president into power?

Could they be the 200 plus bishops that didn’t speak out on honoring the Obamacide, embryonic stem cell, U S money for forced abortion internationally, supporting president at a Catholic university?

Could they be of the thinking that tried to get “inclusive” language into the Catholic Catechism years back?

Perhaps they were the ones that approved contraception under certain circumstances and had to retract under JPll?

Are they like the one I’m under that routinely sends a priest around to preach that “We’re all going to heaven” and puts the hierarchy into the radical feminist version of command and authority?

The list is too long -I now ask very hard, and look very long, at “which bishop” is talking.

Cardinal Ratzinger correctly taught us years ago that there is no separate US hierarchy.

 

[tm30]

What’s really amazing is that these particular prelates entirely miss the point that all of this inevitably leads to furthering the notion that we need to control population levels. The whole Malthusian argument that the world food levels can only sustain so many people is neatly folded into the argument that the world’s energy can only sustain so many people, which is neatly folded into the argument that the world’s climate can only sustain so much energy usage, which thus becomes, “the world’s climate can only sustain so many people”.

This kind of empowerment - this kind of massaging of the public consciousness - will only further justify the notion that those who cannot be economically productive - the unborn, the elderly - are the enemies of society at large, using up natural resources without return.

 

[mdgspencer]

I don’t know about the other things you say, but inclusive language almost did get into the U.S. translation of the Catechism through the priest that one bishop apointed as translator. Luckily, when they saw it, the Vatican intervened, and we have the translation used today that does not have this problem. But in the case, the entire U.S. group of bishop was not involved.
I do know that the bishop have made some mistakes in the past. I think of my mother in this regards when I think of it, who made mistakes too, but I loved her all the same, just like I love the Church.

Are the US Bishops the same ones that accidently managed to get $15 Million or so into the hands of suspected lawbreakers ACORN, that put the Obamacide president into power?

Could they be the 200 plus bishops that didn’t speak out on honoring the Obamacide, embryonic stem cell, U S money for forced abortion internationally, supporting president at a Catholic university?

Could they be of the thinking that tried to get “inclusive” language into the Catholic Catechism years back?

Perhaps they were the ones that approved contraception under certain circumstances and had to retract under JPll?

Are they like the one I’m under that routinely sends a priest around to preach that “We’re all going to heaven” and puts the hierarchy into the radical feminist version of command and authority?

The list is too long -I now ask very hard, and look very long, at “which bishop” is talking.

Cardinal Ratzinger correctly taught us years ago that there is no separate US hierarchy.

 

[soflochristmas]

I can understand your political disagreement with the two bishops, but why would you say that they are pretend Catholics, “wolves in shepherd’s clothing?” It seems a rather extreme thing to say about a couple bishops.

It’s possible is it not? Would you deny that we’ve had “pretend” Catholics as bishops in our history and “wolves in sheep’s clothing” in the past? So then let’s test the fruit of there bishopric.

 

[Nicollle]

Donate to Greenpeace instead of Catholic Relief Services. They seem to have more sense.

 

[soflochristmas]

Are the US Bishops the same ones that accidently managed to get $15 Million or so into the hands of suspected lawbreakers ACORN, that put the Obamacide president into power?

Could they be the 200 plus bishops that didn’t speak out on honoring the Obamacide, embryonic stem cell, U S money for forced abortion internationally, supporting president at a Catholic university?

Could they be of the thinking that tried to get “inclusive” language into the Catholic Catechism years back?

Perhaps they were the ones that approved contraception under certain circumstances and had to retract under JPll?

Are they like the one I’m under that routinely sends a priest around to preach that “We’re all going to heaven” and puts the hierarchy into the radical feminist version of command and authority?

The list is too long -I now ask very hard, and look very long, at “which bishop” is talking.

Cardinal Ratzinger correctly taught us years ago that there is no separate US hierarchy.

I am convinced it will be the laity (as it has been many times in the past) that will pull the Church hierarchy in America out of the fire and “restore” it. Ironic isn’t it, given Vatican II and all that return to orthodoxy and sound principles and teaching will come from the very laity the “reformers” and progressives focused on empowering?

 

[soflochristmas]

What’s really amazing is that these particular prelates entirely miss the point that all of this inevitably leads to furthering the notion that we need to control population levels. The whole Malthusian argument that the world food levels can only sustain so many people is neatly folded into the argument that the world’s energy can only sustain so many people, which is neatly folded into the argument that the world’s climate can only sustain so much energy usage, which thus becomes, “the world’s climate can only sustain so many people”.

This kind of empowerment - this kind of massaging of the public consciousness - will only further justify the notion that those who cannot be economically productive - the unborn, the elderly - are the enemies of society at large, using up natural resources without return.

Maybe they DON’T miss the point. Maybe they get it entirely.

 

[maggiemay2u]

I had breakfast with a missionary prist friend of mine today. He doesn’t have too much to say about CRS that’s favorable. He spoke of the waste he saw live and close up in Africa by CRS, and how chummy they were with bureaucrats. I told him I had crossed them off my list when the reports of their connection with PP came out and I have asked them repeatedly to stop sending me e and snail mail. I wrote them again after this last bit of lunacy. An extra 3 grand may not seem like much to those with a big annual income, but it will be devastating to those living solely on SS and other fixed incomes.

Aside from the secular madness of their support, the religious aspect still boggles my mind, unless of course, my friend’s view of who’s in bed with whom, is accurate. Christian charity, especially Catholic charity, is the work of the individual, not the government. Give me back the portion of my taxes that support social programs, and I’ll make my own decisions, based on my beliefs, not on those of some godless bean counter in DC.

 

[SamH]

They criticized the legislation only because, in their view, it did not include adequate funding to protect the poor-- in the US and abroad-- from the bill’s economic impact.

Wonder if they realize how many people this will be before all is said and done.

 

[Erich]

You know neither of them ever read this bill

They’re not the only ones…

Before last Friday, HR 2454 (the cap and trade bill) ran a little over 1000 pages. Early on Friday, Rep. Waxman dropped a 300 page amendment into it. Here’s the text of the amendment:

rules.house.gov/111/SpecialRules/hr2998/waxman1_hr2998_111.pdf

I’m sure the representatives who voted on the amendment (and for that matter on the final bill) didn’t read any of it either, because if they had, they’d have noticed the following:

(page 122) there will be a commission to “develop and recommend model mortgage products and underwriting guidelines that provide market-based incentives to prospective home buyers, lenders, and sellers to incorporate energy efficiency upgrades and location efficiencies in new mortgage loan transactions”

(page 129) there will be someone whose job it will be to approve or certify “any single- or multi-family residential housing subject to a mortgage insured under this Act” for “meeting any energy efficiency or conservation criteria, standards, or requirements pursuant to this title”

(page 165) there will be “‘green banking’ centers” established by “insured depository institutions” to provide “any consumer who seeks information on obtaining a mortgage, home improvement loan, home equity loan, or renewable energy lease with additional information on obtaining an home energy rating or audit for the residence for which such mortgage or loan is sought …”

In other words, if you ever want to sell your house, some government-approved environmental regulator is going to come in and do a survey to find out if you’ve got leaky windows, if all the environmental systems are correct, if you have relatively new appliances, etc., and until you modernize in the way they say, you can’t sell.

 

[Erich]

Here are the final vote results for Cap and Trade (aka “American Clean Energy and Security Act”): clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll477.xml

Of the eight Republicans who voted YES on Cap and Trade, three are from NJ; they appear to be gearing up to have a fighting chance to be reelected after the redistricting and are attempting to appeal to the future voters they DO NOT CURRENTLY REPRESENT instead of the voters who elected them.

% Vote Total Pres election ‘08

YEA VOTE District/Representative Republican Opponent McCain Obama

NJ-04 Chris Smith (R) 66.21 32.63 52 47
CA-45 Bono Mack 58.29 41.71 46.9 51.5
NJ-07 Lance 50.22 42.22 49 50
NY-23 McHugh 65.34 34.66 47 52
WA-08 Reichert 52.78 47.22 42 56
NJ-02 LoBiondo 59.06 39.09 45 54
IL-10 Kirk 52.56 47.44 38 61
DE-AL Castle 61.08 37.99 37 62

Smith/McCain won big. Every reason to vote ‘NAY’.
Lance won big / McCain & Obama statistically tied. No reason to vote ‘YEA’.
LoBiondo won by so much larger a differential than McCain lost. No reason to vote ‘YEA’.

Two Republicans didn’t even bother to vote:

AZ-06 Flake 62.42 34.55 61 38
OK-01 Sullivan 66.17 33.83 64 36

Flake/McCain and
Sullivan/McCain both won big. Every reason to VOTE and vote ‘NAY’

(by the way… McHugh, Kirk, Castle, and Sullivan also voted YES on last year’s bailout bill (aka “Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008”): clerk.house.gov/evs/2008/roll681.xml)

WE HAVE UNTIL JULY 2nd to get these folks to change their vote on Cap and Trade

It’s time to melt ALL their phone and fax lines (they may already have left DC due to the July 4th recess) between now and Wednesday. You may not be their constituent but their vote has a profound effect on you and on every citizen across the country. It is important to do this while their offices are open so they get the FULL effect of this message. They know that this vote WILL be remembered, and that people will actively campaign against a YES vote in the next election.​

Sample Phone Call: Use your own words.
Please ask Congressman (insert last name) to change his/her vote to NAY on HR 2454 Cap&Trade before the 5 day deadline to do so has expired
(may ask name & where you live - Tell the truth)
Response if “not in this District”
I pay Taxes that pays His/Her Salary! This Tax Bill affects me! (then repeat first line)

---

Sample Fax: Use your own words. Advocate for your State and America!

Dear Congressman ___________,

Your vote on Friday to support the Waxman-Markey bill will have a negative effect on EVERY citizen of EVERY State! In addition to a significant increase in our energy costs, the price of food, furniture, clothing, and other items we use every day will rise rapidly as well. I urge you to change your vote before the 5 day deadline has expired to do so! There is time for you to protect your constituents and benefit the rest of America at the same time.

No longer will citizens across America sit by while our voices and opinions are ignored!! If you fail to change your vote, I vow to send a donation in support of your next primary opponent in order to ensure you no longer have the opportunity to negatively affect any of us again!

Do the right thing for ALL Americans and vote AGAINST HR 2454.

Sincerely,
Your Name
State

Here is the info you will need for this action alert! Burn up the phone and fax lines! Let your voice be heard!!

Mary Bono Mack - California
Washington Office: Phone: (202) 225-5330 Fax: (202) 225-2961
Palm Springs Office: Phone: (760) 320-1076 Fax: (760) 320-0596
Hemet Office: Phone: (951) 658-2312 Fax: (951) 652-2562

Michael Castle - Delaware
Washington Office: Phone: (202) 225-4165 Fax: (202) 225-2291
Wilmington Office: Phone: (302) 428-1902 Fax: (302) 428-1950
Dover Office: Phone: (302) 736-1666 Fax: (302) 736-6580
Georgetown Office: Phone: (302) 856-3334

Mark Kirk - Illinois
Washington Office: Phone: (202) 225-4835 Fax: (202) 225-0837
Northbrook Office: Phone: (847) 940-0202 Fax: (847) 940-7143

Leonard Lance - New Jersey
Washington Office: Phone: (202) 225-5361 Fax: (202) 225-9460
Westfield Office: Phone: (908) 518-7733 Fax: (908) 518-7751
Flemington Office: Phone: (908) 788-6900 Fax: (908) 788-2869

Frank LoBiondo - New Jersey
Washington Office: Phone: (202) 225-6572 Fax: (202) 225-3318
NJ Office: Toll Free: (800) 471-4450 Phone: (609) 625-5008 Fax: (609) 625-5071

John McHugh - New York
Washington Office: Phone: (202) 225-4611 Fax: (202) 226-0621
Watertown Office: Phone: (315) 782-3150 Fax: (315) 782-1291
Plattsburgh Office: Phone: (518) 563-1406 Fax: (518) 561-9723
Mayfield Office: Phone: (518) 661-6486 Fax: (518) 661-5704
Canastota Office: Phone: (315) 697-2063 Fax: (315) 697-2064

Dave Reichert - Washington
Washington Office: Phone: (202) 225-7761 Fax: (202) 225-4282
Mercer Island Office: Phone: (206) 275-3438 Fax: (206) 275-3437

Christopher Smith - New Jersey
Washington Office: Phone: (202) 225-3765 Fax: (202) 225-7768
Hamilton Office: Phone: (609) 585-7878 Fax: (609) 585-9155
Whiting Office: Phone: (732) 350-2300 Fax: (732) 350-6260

 

[maggiemay2u]

I just called Bono’s office and let that daffy woman’s staff know that I would contribute to anybody running against her in '10.

I already called Madame Speaker’s office–btw, Pelosi’s SF staff will only entertain calls from congressional district constituents, all others must call DC and ID themselves as calling for the Speaker, not Representative.

Called Boxer and Feinstein, too, but for all the good it will do, I might as well have called my dog…