US conversions to Catholicism plummet 9% in 2008

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Despite an increase in the Catholic population of the United States during 2008, the number of baptisms, confirmations, first Communions, and marriages all declined, according to The Official Catholic Directory. While the number of baptisms and confirmations declined by less than 2% and the number of marriages declined by less than 3%, the number of adult baptisms and receptions into the Church plummeted by 9% in a single year-- from approximately 136,000 to 124,000.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0902595.htm

usccb.org/comm/archives/2009/09-124.shtml
 
Rolltide said:
Despite an increase in the Catholic population of the United States during 2008, the number of baptisms, confirmations, first Communions, and marriages all declined, according to The Official Catholic Directory. While the number of baptisms and confirmations declined by less than 2% and the number of marriages declined by less than 3%, the number of adult baptisms and receptions into the Church plummeted by 9% in a single year-- from approximately 136,000 to 124,000.

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0902595.htm

usccb.org/comm/archives/2009/09-124.shtml
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This is really confusing. Just a few days ago, I was reading all kinds of stats on the increase in baptisms, confirmations etc. among Catholics.:confused: What’s up with all this?
 
Teelynn said:
This is really confusing. Just a few days ago, I was reading all kinds of stats on the increase in baptisms, confirmations etc. among Catholics.:confused: What’s up with all this?
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I won’t swear by this, but I believe that thread was regarding an increase in Catholicism in Australia. This study was of the US.
 
Rolltide said:
I won’t swear by this, but I believe that thread was regarding an increase in Catholicism in Australia. This study was of the US.
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That thread is on the Catholic News section, a little below this thread.

It also included statistics showing increases in the U.S. & overall including Australia so it wasn’t just Australia with increases…
New statistics show U.S. Catholics increase in numbers
catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=16201
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In 2008 there were 887,145 infant baptisms, 42,629 adult baptisms, and 81,775 baptized Christians who entered full communion with the Church. The Kenedy Directory lists 18,674 parishes, including 91 new parishes, and 189 seminaries with 4,973 students.
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U.S. Catholic hospitals number 562 and serve almost 85.3 million patients, while 3009 Catholic social service centers assist 27.2 million people annually.
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World Catholic population increases by 1.4%
catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=11937
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Between 2005 and 2006, the number of Catholics in the world increased from 1.115 to 1.131 billion, a growth of 1.4 percent.
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I don’t understand the purpose of this as if it was “bad news” or aimed to disheartened. Kind of a counter-response to the Catholic News Agency’s report last week showing healthiness of the church, in spite of the American church’s problems…

Anyway, I really don’t like Statistics spun in headlines. It’s so misleading…

Overall, there should be glimmers of hope compared to the other churches…
Even though 91 new parishes were opened in 2008, an increase of 34 over the year before, there was a net loss of 216 parishes because of closings or mergers, as the total decreased from 18,890 to 18,674.
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Seems more to do with economic downturn if anything… 🤷
so what?

Because one increase this year was not at the same percentage, of a previous year that’s all of a sudden a bad thing.
The fact is, there’s still been increases…
 
Veridical16 said:
Because one increase this year was not at the same percentage, of a previous year that’s all of a sudden a bad thing.
The fact is, there’s still been increases…
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Well, I tend to agree, but I think what this article is trying to point out is that although the church is healthy, and it’s numbers are staying roughly the same, a drop of 9% in conversions to the faith is somewhat unusual. In other words, what’s going on that’s causing the Church to have less success with conversion, especially when there are more organizations out there than ever like CatholicsComeHome.org?
 
This is interesting, seeing as there has been a slight increase in the number of vocations to the priesthood and religious life in the past year, if I recall correctly.

In any case, conversions, etc., are a direct result of the efforts of the faithful; their prayers, sufferings, sacrifices, etc., for those who do not know or believe the Catholic faith. True, it is always God doing the heavy lifting, but He lifts in response to our prayers, supplications, etc. In other words, we didn’t do a great job last year and need to do better this year, even though the year is almost half done.
 
Yes, sometimes numbers mean something. But you must also consider degrees. Such as a lukewarm person turning into a moderately strong Catholic. Or to a greater degree, a satanist turning into a staunch Catholic. The latter is a situation worthy of more celebration.

O my Jesus forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of Hell, lead all souls to Heaven, especially those who are in most need of Thine mercy.

Conversions to Catholicism may have gone down in the United States by 9% in 2008 but maybe the conversions that were made in 2008 were especially effective. i don’t know. i do trust that God distributes graces to soften hearts in the most effective manner possible.
 
Veridical16 said:
That thread is on the Catholic News section, a little below this thread.

It also included statistics showing increases in the U.S. & overall including Australia so it wasn’t just Australia with increases…

I don’t understand the purpose of this as if it was “bad news” or aimed to disheartened. Kind of a counter-response to the Catholic News Agency’s report last week showing healthiness of the church, in spite of the American church’s problems…

Anyway, I really don’t like Statistics spun in headlines. It’s so misleading…

Overall, there should be glimmers of hope compared to the other churches…

Seems more to do with economic downturn if anything… 🤷
so what?

Because one increase this year was not at the same percentage, of a previous year that’s all of a sudden a bad thing.
The fact is, there’s still been increases…
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There was a book almost 20 years ago called “The Good News Is, The Bad News Is Wrong”, by Ben J. Wattenberg. It dealt with the use of statistics in politics and marketing and how they’re used to manipulate opinion. One item Mr. Wattenberg talked about is DITROI, or Decrease In The Rate Of Increase. It used examples from the '80’s where things like the economy are presented as dying because it grew at only 3% instead of 9%. What gets missed is that the economy GREW! It just didn’t grow as much this year as last year – DITROI.
 
Muzhik said:
There was a book almost 20 years ago called “The Good News Is, The Bad News Is Wrong”, by Ben J. Wattenberg. It dealt with the use of statistics in politics and marketing and how they’re used to manipulate opinion. One item Mr. Wattenberg talked about is DITROI, or Decrease In The Rate Of Increase. It used examples from the '80’s where things like the economy are presented as dying because it grew at only 3% instead of 9%. What gets missed is that the economy GREW! It just didn’t grow as much this year as last year – DITROI.
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The problem is that although Catholic numbers, as a percentage of Americans, are staying steady, it’s only because of immigration from Hispanics. About 2.5% of Americans, overall, are converts to Catholicism, but fully 10% are former Catholics. That means that over time, if immigration is taken out of the mix, that Catholics are losing 4 times as many people as they are gaining. This IS a problem that is going to have to be dealt with, because Evangelical churches are actively working to convert Hispanics that are moving here. The church’s percentage of the population will not maintain itself indefinitely.
 
Rolltide said:
The problem is that although Catholic numbers, as a percentage of Americans, are staying steady, it’s only because of immigration from Hispanics. About 2.5% of Americans, overall, are converts to Catholicism, but fully 10% are former Catholics. That means that over time, if immigration is taken out of the mix, that Catholics are losing 4 times as many people as they are gaining. This IS a problem that is going to have to be dealt with, because Evangelical churches are actively working to convert Hispanics that are moving here. The church’s percentage of the population will not maintain itself indefinitely.
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I think the problem is overstated.

catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0252.html
“While a lot of people leave the Church, they tend not to be good Catholics,” says Curtis Martin, president of Catholics United for the Faith, who himself returned to the Church after spending five years as an evangelical Protestant. “The Protestants [now] coming into the Church are the most devoted Protestants, people deeply committed to Scripture and prayer. We’re losing the numbers game but we are winning the quality game in spades.”
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Rolltide said:
So, shouldn’t we be doing something more to encourage these people who are already members of our flock to be better Catholics, rather than simply giving up on them?
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Yes. That is why we have organizations like Catholic Answers, EWTN, and the like.

But if there are those who don’t want to improve their spiritual lives, are we to force them?

The problem wit those who left are that - they didn’t bother to do anything and were not motivated to improve their spiritual lives until they’ve already left.
 
BobCatholic said:
Yes. That is why we have organizations like Catholic Answers, EWTN, and the like.

But if there are those who don’t want to improve their spiritual lives, are we to force them?

The problem wit those who left are that - they didn’t bother to do anything and were not motivated to improve their spiritual lives until they’ve already left.
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Possibly… but many of them leave specifically for evangelical and non-denominational groups, especially in Latin America. If they’re leaving for these groups in large numbers, then surely there’s some reason that needs to be addressed more thoroughly than it is being addressed right now…
 
Rolltide said:
Possibly… but many of them leave specifically for evangelical and non-denominational groups, especially in Latin America. If they’re leaving for these groups in large numbers, then surely there’s some reason that needs to be addressed more thoroughly than it is being addressed right now…
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A good place to start is with good Catechesis. Scores of people who leave the Church have no clue what they’re leaving.
 
Rolltide said:
Possibly… but many of them leave specifically for evangelical and non-denominational groups, especially in Latin America. If they’re leaving for these groups in large numbers, then surely there’s some reason that needs to be addressed more thoroughly than it is being addressed right now…
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Well, the other churches will tell them things like

“Sure you can divorce and remarry”

“Contraception is OK!”

“interpret the Bible for yourself!”

Nothing we can do about that. People will always listen to doctrines which will tickle their ears.
 
BobCatholic said:
Well, the other churches will tell them things like

“Sure you can divorce and remarry”

“Contraception is OK!”

“interpret the Bible for yourself!”

Nothing we can do about that. People will always listen to doctrines which will tickle their ears.
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Well we can try to demonstrate to them why we’re right. I mean, instead of going “contraception is bad!” we should say "contraception is bad because…"
 
BobCatholic said:
Well, the other churches will tell them things like

“Sure you can divorce and remarry”

“Contraception is OK!”

“interpret the Bible for yourself!”

Nothing we can do about that. People will always listen to doctrines which will tickle their ears.
Click to expand...
Then there are those who preach a “prosperity gospel”; and since the ministers are from the US, they MUST be able to provide prosperity.
 
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