US Drug Laws: The New Jim Crow?

[Via_Dolorosa]

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I heard this women speak on C-Span a few months ago. I was deeply moved by what she said and recognized that this is an issue of social justice. I am preparing additional reading for the gifted students in my lit class and I plan to bring up this subject in connection with a novel we are reading. I would appreciate your honest (name removed by moderator)ut on the subject. If you agree or disagree due to what you know and have read, I would appreciate you citing your sources.
Of course, anyone is welcome to comment without helping me with my homework. I look forward to your thoughts on the subject.

Michelle Alexander, a professor of Law at Ohio State U makes a persuasive case in The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness.
The following is the author explaining her premise. Please be advised that that the comments are uncensored

The following is a review of the book and an excerpt:

http://newsblaze.com/story/20100126141837kamw.nb/topstory.html

This site is a study and discussion done several years ago. The article is lengthy but informative.

U S Drug Laws: The New Jim Crow
http://www.drugpolicy.org/library/scotti_jc.cfm

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[Via_Dolorosa]

I find it interesting that threads that deal with homosexuatlity, masturbation, and general purity issues get so many hits and comments. Also the threads that deal with how to act during a latin mass and which color mantilla should one wear also get a big response. There are several threads that deal with racism and the tea party who are not at all racist. Why is not the problem I have posted gotten any response?

 

[markbrumbaugh]

I find it interesting that threads that deal with homosexuatlity, masturbation, and general purity issues get so many hits and comments. Also the threads that deal with how to act during a latin mass and which color mantilla should one wear also get a big response. There are several threads that deal with racism and the tea party who are not at all racist. Why is not the problem I have posted gotten any response?

Maybe because we can’t click on any of your links and you didn’t tell us what the problem was. I’m too lazy to look up what is interesting to you, unless you give me some details.

 

[Belle777]

looked at the excerpt from the book

Making sure I got it straight, what’s going on is police are arresting people from poor, black communities who are denied decent lawyers and forced to plead guilty, sent to prison, and are basically ruined for the rest of their lives.

Racism is indeed a horrid thing, and you’d think at least America would know better.

 

[dcdurel]

There were laws like that in the state of New York.
Father Peter Young was one who helped to change those laws

Look up Father Peter Young and the work he does.

 

[Dale_M]

Maybe because we can’t click on any of your links and you didn’t tell us what the problem was.

I’m surprised, because all of the links worked more me, using the Firefox browser.

I think her basic argument is that the War on Drugs is targeting the wrong people and that it is clogging the prison system with people who don’t deserve to be incarcerated, compared to the persons who are being let free. Because the War on Drugs is disproportionately targeting racial minorities (who in the US have less economic opportunities, hence their turn to drug sales), this current regime is racist as well as non-productive.

 

[JohnDamian]

People committing crime, being convicted of those crimes by trial and going to prison for those crimes is not unfair at all.

I fail to see the relevance of ethnicity in the matter in any way; it appears only relevant insofar as to demonstrate that many poorer areas tend to produce higher rates of material crime. The fact that many of these poorer areas are ethnic communities is incidental. A poor upbringing; or difficulty and challenges in life are not excuses for criminal behaviour.

I watched the video; and it appears like the “author” is complaining that people who are felons are discriminated against (min.7). She proceeds to equivocate criminality with racial disposition; towit there is no causal connection; only a statistical trend reflective of poverty than race per se. She makes an equivalance between race (which is not chosen) and criminality (which is chosen) - there is nothing wrong with discriminating against criminals; otherwise there would be no need for judicial systems.

She also equivocates internal cyclic self fulfilling prophesy with an exteranlly imposed social consensus; which is demonstrably fallacious; there are clearly opportunities available for people of any race or economic background to avoid criminality; and when they do indulge in criminality there can be no complaint that they recieve some form of chastisement.

I suppose not living in America may mean I am missing something; but it seems self evident that this “author” is nothing but an equivocater who is abusing rhetoric to equate poverty and choice with compulsion and race.

 

[pnewton]

I have heard this same complaint before. It cheapens the racism an injustice behind the Jim Crow laws to make this comparison. This accusation has brought law enforcement added regulations, in the form of racial-profiling laws, race documentation and cultural sensitivity training. None of these things have changed the underlying issue that if more of a demographic commit a crime, more of that demographic will be incarcerated.

 

[Ceil-1]

I agree with the above post.

I am also concerned that a teacher of an advanced lit class does not have the ability to discern this.

It is one of the reasons why I had to pull my kids out of public, then parochial shcool. I also encountered this sophistry in private school.

Can’t anyone in the educational sphere put two and two together anymore???

No wonder we are in so much trouble.

Our city just had a 17 year old shoot a 10 year old at a street festival. It is a good thing they were both of the same ethnicity, or we would have, yet, another ridiculous accusation on our hands, complete with protests, riots, and fat-cat flim-flam artists coming to town, stirring up trouble.

 

[pnewton]

Let us look at this author:

moritzlaw.osu.edu/faculty/bios.php?ID=2

Professor Alexander has significant experience in the field of civil rights advocacy and litigation. She has litigated civil rights cases in private practice as well as engaged in innovative litigation and advocacy efforts in the non-profit sector. For several years, Professor Alexander served as the Director of the Racial Justice Project for the ACLU of Northern California, which spearheaded a national campaign against racial profiling by law enforcement. While an associate at Saperstein, Goldstein, Demchak & Baller, she specialized in plaintiff-side class action suits alleging race and gender discrimination

If there is any discrepancy in the justice system, since the same judges hear the same cases, everyone has the same access to a jury, etc. then it is in that those with more resources can employ better representation. I would be happy if this problem was resolved by the elimination of* all* lawyers and making people represent themselves. Then Ms. Alexander would have to find work other than teaching law and race-baiting.

 

[Via_Dolorosa]

There were laws like that in the state of New York.
Father Peter Young was one who helped to change those laws

Look up Father Peter Young and the work he does.

Thanks, I did look him up and he may be a role model. Thank you again for your (name removed by moderator)ut

 

[Via_Dolorosa]

Let us look at this author:

moritzlaw.osu.edu/faculty/bios.php?ID=2

Professor Alexander has significant experience in the field of civil rights advocacy and litigation. She has litigated civil rights cases in private practice as well as engaged in innovative litigation and advocacy efforts in the non-profit sector. For several years, Professor Alexander served as the Director of the Racial Justice Project for the ACLU of Northern California, which spearheaded a national campaign against racial profiling by law enforcement. While an associate at Saperstein, Goldstein, Demchak & Baller, she specialized in plaintiff-side class action suits alleging race and gender discrimination

If there is any discrepancy in the justice system, since the same judges hear the same cases, everyone has the same access to a jury, etc. then it is in that those with more resources can employ better representation. I would be happy if this problem was resolved by the elimination of* all* lawyers and making people represent themselves. Then Ms. Alexander would have to find work other than teaching law and race-baiting.

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. I will surely address you response in my class. I may do it in Religion instead of llt, though, when I talk about social justice and racism.

 

[St_Francis]

Let’s look at something that’s a little more cut and dried than drug use: murder victims. I have chosen to look at the race of victims rather than offenders, because the victims are known and many offenders are not, and most victims are the same race as the perpetrator(s).

Blacks: 6,782

Whites: 6,838

The last I heard, most murders are intraracial–both the murderer and the victim are of the same race. Here we see that the number of victims is about the same; however, blacks make up only about 13% of the US population, so the *rate *is much different. In fact, if all murderers were put into a separate prison, and the race rates of victims and murderers was equal, then we would see a situation in which… half the prisoners were black.

---

Now, I personally have a problem with the lock 'em up mentality, but looking at the rate of violent crime (something for which I do not have a problem with people being locked up for) over the years 1960 to 2030, I see that there was an 5-fold increase in violent crime until the early 1990s when the rates started to decrease.

If the rates of violent crime increase, it is not surprising that the rates of incarceration, and the numbers of those incarcerated, would also increase.

---

I also have to wonder about a book which levels such an accusation being described (in an Amazon review) as having “no graphs or pictures.” I am sorry, but I believe some easily understood evidence should be shown for accusations such as those the author levels. If I saw this book in a bookstore or library, before I got it I would glance through and see what sort of evidence she showed. A graph showing the difference or similarity of drug use between blacks and whites and difference in incarceration rates, for example.

 

[pnewton]

My perspective is probably not very universal. I was visiting with a co-worker who grew up in the same time (60’s and 70’s) in urban Houston. He tells stories of race issues that seem totally foreign to me. Growing up in suburban deep south, some how race was never an issue. I have no idea of how this happened, but the black and hispanic kids I grew up with were friends with all. My best friends for ten years were hispanic, whose mother hardly spoke any English. In the sixities, our Church had a interracial couple an no one made any fuss over it. I guess my opinion may be more anecdotal than useful.

However, I would be curious to see if incarceration statistics show a greater correlation to race or to income level.

 

[Desertsailor]

Michelle Alexander, a professor of Law at Ohio State U makes a persuasive case in The New Jim Crow: Mass Incarceration in the Age of Colorblindness.

This woman is a little off center. Does she think legalizing drugs for blacks is going to solve some problem floating around in her head.
The reason America has more prisons and people in prison than other countries like Iran and China is because in America the police don’t kill the perpetrators without just cause.

 

[Tigg]

People committing crime, being convicted of those crimes by trial and going to prison for those crimes is not unfair at all.

I fail to see the relevance of ethnicity in the matter in any way; it appears only relevant insofar as to demonstrate that many poorer areas tend to produce higher rates of material crime. The fact that many of these poorer areas are ethnic communities is incidental. A poor upbringing; or difficulty and challenges in life are not excuses for criminal behaviour.

I watched the video; and it appears like the “author” is complaining that people who are felons are discriminated against (min.7). She proceeds to equivocate criminality with racial disposition; towit there is no causal connection; only a statistical trend reflective of poverty than race per se. She makes an equivalance between race (which is not chosen) and criminality (which is chosen) - there is nothing wrong with discriminating against criminals; otherwise there would be no need for judicial systems.

She also equivocates internal cyclic self fulfilling prophesy with an exteranlly imposed social consensus; which is demonstrably fallacious; there are clearly opportunities available for people of any race or economic background to avoid criminality; and when they do indulge in criminality there can be no complaint that they recieve some form of chastisement.

I suppose not living in America may mean I am missing something; but it seems self evident that this “author” is nothing but an equivocater who is abusing rhetoric to equate poverty and choice with compulsion and race.

:clapping::clapping:

Wonderful post!

Bottom line: Individual moral responsibility cannot be negated by color or race.

 

[manualman]

Seems like a distraction to me.

To me, a much greater structural injustice done to the black community is the funding structure of the public school system. By segregating school funding by local district property tax revenues, we perpetuate poor education in leaky old buildings for poverty ridden black neighborhoods while white kids from wealthy white suburbs go to shiny new schools with all the high tech toys.

If she were smart, she’d be campaigning for statewide equalization of school funding per student rather than bemoaning the imprisonment of crack dealers.

Don’t misunderstand me. High funding levels do NOT guarantee good educational results. But horrifically low funding leves DO guarantee bad ones.

 

[hazcompat]

People committing crime, being convicted of those crimes by trial and going to prison for those crimes is not unfair at all.

I fail to see the relevance of ethnicity in the matter in any way; it appears only relevant insofar as to demonstrate that many poorer areas tend to produce higher rates of material crime. The fact that many of these poorer areas are ethnic communities is incidental. A poor upbringing; or difficulty and challenges in life are not excuses for criminal behaviour.

I watched the video; and it appears like the “author” is complaining that people who are felons are discriminated against (min.7). She proceeds to equivocate criminality with racial disposition; towit there is no causal connection; only a statistical trend reflective of poverty than race per se. She makes an equivalance between race (which is not chosen) and criminality (which is chosen) - there is nothing wrong with discriminating against criminals; otherwise there would be no need for judicial systems.

She also equivocates internal cyclic self fulfilling prophesy with an exteranlly imposed social consensus; which is demonstrably fallacious; there are clearly opportunities available for people of any race or economic background to avoid criminality; and when they do indulge in criminality there can be no complaint that they recieve some form of chastisement.

I suppose not living in America may mean I am missing something; but it seems self evident that this “author” is nothing but an equivocater who is abusing rhetoric to equate poverty and choice with compulsion and race.

 

[hazcompat]

I don’t remember whom I am paraphrasing, but…“The Law in its majestic wisdom prohibits the rich and the poor from sleeping on the park bench…” just because its illegal does not make it immoral.

 

[edwest2]

Unfortunately, some people need to fight for causes where there are none. By associating drug laws with Jim Crow, an emotional, not intellectual reaction is hoped for.

In Detroit, the dropout rate is high. There is a program where volunteers try to help. A high percentage of black children are born to unwed mothers. There are few jobs. Selling illegal drugs, for some, is not just a way to get by but to get large amounts of money. Black people primarily live in all black neighborhoods.

While redistributing monies into poor black neighborhoods and schools might be a good idea, I think more parental involvement and community involvement is necessary. If mom is working, there may be too little time for this but sometimes other relatives pitch in. Discipline is another problem. It’s difficult to learn if not much respect is shown to teachers in the first place. It’s difficult to look toward the future if you know that few jobs are waiting for you once you graduate high school.

I think one approach would be for the community to help guide kids through the school system and to help them find work after.

God bless,
Ed