US fast-food workers staging nationwide strike

[prodigalson2011]

How stingy, 9.13/hr. indeed, why not 119.13/hr.; what justification is there to keep unskilled- labor in slave pay. Where is the liberal outrage over the economic rape of the untrained, untalented and mostly not to bright labors flipping our burgers?

This is one of the most horrendous, hateful and unChristlike things I have ever seen posted by a Catholic on these forums. Shame on you.

 

[Orogeny]

This is one of the most horrendous, hateful and unChristlike things I have ever seen posted by a Catholic on these forums. Shame on you.

It was sarcasm to make a point.

Peace

Tim

 

[Ridgerunner]

I have not read all of the posts, so perhaps someone has already said the following:

I don’t think any of us really know the economics of the fast food industry. Most of them are franchises, for which the operator pays a lot of money then tries to make a go of it. I have seen them close down. They’re not a guaranteed deal. Apparently, they can be marginal or even losers.

On the other hand, I have seen people make a lot of money from owning multiple franchises. Undoubtedly the differences between a successful franchise and one that sends the owner into bankruptcy are many and varied. Undoubtedly, location makes a huge difference. Is the clientele buying a lot of the big markup stuff or the things that are break-even at best? (I don’t see how McD can possibly make anything on Value menu, for instance)

But I have never seen an understaffed fast food place, either, though there probably are some. Seems there is an irreducible number at some point.

Now, I am a very marginal buyer of fast food. I sometimes buy it “on the road” because I don’t see any choices. But I avoid it 100% of the time, otherwise. Would I start taking my lunch “on the road” if the food was much more expensive? Probably. Seems to me it’s pretty expensive right now if one buys “up the food chain” so to speak.

In the fast food places I have been, the workers are always either very young or very old. I don’t know how many people are really relying on that work for a livelihood. I doubt many are. So is “living wage” even relevant in considering all of this?

If, indeed, most of the protesters are union people brought in, and not the workers themselves, then it is hard for me to think this is somehow the action of an “oppressed class” of workers trying to stave off starvation or penury. Yesterday I was “on the road”, passed many fast food places and saw not a single protester at any of them.

 

[Lochias]

No, we scoff because we HAVE been in that place.

Sorry, this sentence destroys the rest of your paragraph in its entirely.

Please read that sentence a few times. And then compare with some sentences that could be similarly constructed.

“No, we scoff at heart patients because we HAVE had heart surgery.”

“No, we scoff at the homeless because we know EXACTLY what it feels like to sleep outside in sub-zero weather.”

“No, we scoff at concentration camp survivors because WE were in concentration camps, too.”

Yup. Your first sentence tells me that, perhaps, you’d like to think you know about what real, terrifying, hopeless poverty is…but if you did, you really wouldn’t be scoffing at anyone in that situation.

 

[Farsight001]

Sorry, this sentence destroys the rest of your paragraph in its entirely.

Please read that sentence a few times. And then compare with some sentences that could be similarly constructed.

“No, we scoff at heart patients because we HAVE had heart surgery.”

“No, we scoff at the homeless because we know EXACTLY what it feels like to sleep outside in sub-zero weather.”

“No, we scoff at concentration camp survivors because WE were in concentration camps, too.”

Yup. Your first sentence tells me that, perhaps, you’d like to think you know about what real, terrifying, hopeless poverty is…but if you did, you really wouldn’t be scoffing at anyone in that situation.

First of all, scoff should have been in scare quotes. I was only re-using the word presented to me.

Second of all, that is not an accurate representation of the meaning of what I was saying. We “scoff” because they complain endlessly about unfair treatment and do nothing about their wages but complain, which does not help. It is not their low pay or their poverty that is 'scoffed" at. It is their method of attempting to “fix” it that is scoffed at. To use one of your “examples” and present it as an ACCURATE analogy, “No, we scoff at homeless people who sleep in a meat freezer and demand they turn up the temperature instead of finding a better place to sleep, just like we did when we were homeless.”

 

[Lochias]

First of all, scoff should have been in scare quotes. I was only re-using the word presented to me.

You know what the word means, I presume.

Second of all, that is not an accurate representation of the meaning of what I was saying. We “scoff” because they complain endlessly about unfair treatment and do nothing about their wages but complain, which does not help.

Prove that all people in abject poverty do this, or even that the majority do.

It is not their low pay or their poverty that is 'scoffed" at. It is their method of attempting to “fix” it that is scoffed at.

I don’t see much that’s working right now.

To use one of your “examples” and present it as an ACCURATE analogy, “No, we scoff at homeless people who sleep in a meat freezer and demand they turn up the temperature instead of finding a better place to sleep, just like we did when we were homeless.”

Again, if you’d ever actually had to sleep outdoors in sub-zero temperatures, those words never would have escaped your keyboard.

 

[Farsight001]

You know what the word means, I presume.

Yes, I know what the word means. I was pointing out that I was not using it because I actually meant that I scoff, but rather that I was using it because someone else did.

Prove that all people in abject poverty do this, or even that the majority do.

Why would I do that? This thread is about McDonald’s workers demanding $15 an hour. Furthermore, as this thread has already been over, “abject poverty” is a gross exaggeration.

I don’t see much that’s working right now.

Getting a new, better paying job and working harder seems to work great.

Again, if you’d ever actually had to sleep outdoors in sub-zero temperatures, those words never would have escaped your keyboard.

I have and you have no idea what you’re talking about.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

In the fast food places I have been, the workers are always either very young or very old. I don’t know how many people are really relying on that work for a livelihood. I doubt many are. So is “living wage” even relevant in considering all of this?

Exactly.

There were those that did do this for a living, but that all had something in common: They went into management. Fast food restaurants generally have high turnover, and there is are almost always positions available for assistant managers. These tend to be salaried positions with benefits, and one can start on the management path immediately.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Exactly.

There were those that did do this for a living, but that all had something in common: They went into management. Fast food restaurants generally have high turnover, and there is are almost always positions available for assistant managers. These tend to be salaried positions with benefits, and one can start on the management path immediately.

I remember, some years back, when two of my daughters worked for different fast food places in the summertime. They hadn’t been in their respective places of employ for more than a couple of weeks before they were asked to be “closers” at a slightly higher pay rate. Both did that. Toward the end, both were asked if they wanted to go through manager training. Of course, they were just high school students at the time and didn’t do that.

I think it is true that if you want to do it, you can rise through the ranks.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

I remember, some years back, when two of my daughters worked for different fast food places in the summertime. They hadn’t been in their respective places of employ for more than a couple of weeks before they were asked to be “closers” at a slightly higher pay rate. Both did that. Toward the end, both were asked if they wanted to go through manager training. Of course, they were just high school students at the time and didn’t do that.

I think it is true that if you want to do it, you can rise through the ranks.

When I graduated college, I was BEGGED to go into management. Given my experience (2.5 years at one store plus I already passed the manager’s test), I would’ve started off as a store manager, on the fast track to district manager. The long and short of this is that there are career paths in fast food, which increase with education level, and are available to those so motivated.

 

[Lochias]

Yes, I know what the word means. I was pointing out that I was not using it because I actually meant that I scoff, but rather that I was using it because someone else did.

You still used it. Whatever.

Why would I do that? This thread is about McDonald’s workers demanding $15 an hour. Furthermore, as this thread has already been over, “abject poverty” is a gross exaggeration.

You’d do that to support your claims, which apparently you can’t. Also, it’s obvious you’ve never lived in actual, abject poverty either.

Getting a new, better paying job and working harder seems to work great.

…there is so much that is un-Christian with this sentence that I don’t know where to begin. Charity rules prohibit me from saying what I’d really like to, but suffice it to say that I find your position laughably unrealistic and horrifyingly self-centered.

I have and you have no idea what you’re talking about.

I don’t believe you.

 

[Vim71]

After reading this entire thread, the only thing I’m certain of is that some people (And you know who you are) have no clue what people are going through. The amount of un-Christian comments in this thread is deeply shocking, and downright painful to read, especially considering it is the Advent season!

I think the one thing everyone here could benefit from is to see it from the fast-food workers position, because nobody on the other side is doing that.

To everyone struggling to make ends meet: You are in my prayers.

 

[Farsight001]

You still used it. Whatever.

As I said, I only used it because it was the word choice of the person to which I was replying. If you want to fault someone for the word, you must logically fault them, not me.

You’d do that to support your claims, which apparently you can’t. Also, it’s obvious you’ve never lived in actual, abject poverty either.

My claims are about the people who are demanding $15 an hour for, a near doubling of pay, for their non-specialized job, not for all poor people everywhere, so again, why would I prove that it applies to all poor people, when even I don’t believe it does and never said I did?

And no, I have not lived in abject poverty. Nor have any of the homeless people living in the U.S. Abject poverty is the poorest of the poor in India and Africa - those who have to walk 3 miles a day just for a bucket of water and have had to wear the same shirt every day for the last decade, never having the opportunity to wash it. Those who live in abject poverty are those starving children who live in other countries. The homeless of the first world are very well-fed by comparison. (and most of them know it, by the way, and consider themselves quite blessed)

…there is so much that is un-Christian with this sentence that I don’t know where to begin. Charity rules prohibit me from saying what I’d really like to, but suffice it to say that I find your position laughably unrealistic and horrifyingly self-centered.

What’s self-centered about it? I want them to succeed and I want them to do well and I know that hard work is the key to it, and I’m trying to share the solution with them. That is the opposite of self-centered.

I don’t believe you.

Please, trivialize the hardships I have faced in life and continue to insinuate that I am a liar. That’ll do wonders to endear me to your perspective. Have YOU ever been homeless? Have YOU ever slept outside in sub-freezing temperatures? Had divorced parents? Tried to kill yourself? Lived below the poverty line in a bad neighborhood? Suffer severe depression for 20 years of our life? No? Then shut up about it.

 

[Farsight001]

After reading this entire thread, the only thing I’m certain of is that some people (And you know who you are) have no clue what people are going through. The amount of un-Christian comments in this thread is deeply shocking, and downright painful to read, especially considering it is the Advent season!

I think the one thing everyone here could benefit from is to see it from the fast-food workers position, because nobody on the other side is doing that.

To everyone struggling to make ends meet: You are in my prayers.

Did you really read the entire thread? Because most of the people from “the other side” gave testimony about when they were actually in that exact position.

 

[Orogeny]

After reading this entire thread, the only thing I’m certain of is that some people (And you know who you are) have no clue what people are going through. The amount of un-Christian comments in this thread is deeply shocking, and downright painful to read, especially considering it is the Advent season!

I don’t know who you are referring to. Can you tell us? Am I one?

I think the one thing everyone here could benefit from is to see it from the fast-food workers position, because nobody on the other side is doing that.

Are you referring to those of us who related our time spent working in fast food restaurants and other low-paying jobs?

Why do some people feel that it is un-Christian to relate our experiences and, more importantly, how we got out of those situations?

Peace

Tim

 

[HappyCatholic01]

After reading this entire thread, the only thing I’m certain of is that some people (And you know who you are) have no clue what people are going through. The amount of un-Christian comments in this thread is deeply shocking, and downright painful to read, especially considering it is the Advent season!

I think the one thing everyone here could benefit from is to see it from the fast-food workers position, because nobody on the other side is doing that.

To everyone struggling to make ends meet: You are in my prayers.

If you had actually read the entire thread, you’d see sympathy, criticism, and people who can relate, as well as a discussion of economics here and there, while noting the opaque profit margins of each franchise.

So the people who you perceive don’t know what the workers are going through bother you, but the people who have no clue what they are talking about when they clamor for a living wage or some other vague nonsense are somehow okay?

What about the people being insulted as though they are a bunch of bourgeois fat cats who in reality have done these jobs and far more menial work as well? The mischaracterization doesn’t bother you?

Or the people railing against business owners, while not being able to know what a business owner goes through? Does that bother you as much?

It seems your outrage and reading of the posts are selective.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

I think the one thing everyone here could benefit from is to see it from the fast-food workers position, because nobody on the other side is doing that.

Actually, a few of us have posted on this very subject, as we have extensive experience on that matter. However, it appears we’re simply getting ignored (often happens when people have a preconceived notion and simply block out anything contrary to their POV).

To everyone struggling to make ends meet: You are in my prayers.

Quite frankly, it sucks. Been there; done that. It’s how it is handled that matters. Bettering one’s education, skill set, etc. makes a difference in the end. Simply demanding more pay than the market will bear with no additional benefit to the business owner sets a person up for failure. The sooner that is realized, the sooner that person will be on the path to success.

BTW, tomorrow I meeting with a person that got their start seeing goods at a farmstand. The person worked from the ground up, and is now worth millions.

 

[prodigalson2011]

It was sarcasm to make a point.

Peace

Tim

I’m well aware that it was sarcasm. That doesn’t excuse it. Using such uncharitable and derogatory language to describe persons of any station is wrong.

 

[Orogeny]

I’m well aware that it was sarcasm. That doesn’t excuse it. Using such uncharitable and derogatory language to describe persons of any station is wrong.

You clearly don’t understand sarcasm.

Peace

Tim

 

[Lochias]

As I said, I only used it because it was the word choice of the person to which I was replying. If you want to fault someone for the word, you must logically fault them, not me.

Cop-out.

My claims are about the people who are demanding $15 an hour for, a near doubling of pay, for their non-specialized job, not for all poor people everywhere, so again, why would I prove that it applies to all poor people, when even I don’t believe it does and never said I did?

No way to prove your position. Thought as much.

And no, I have not lived in abject poverty. Nor have any of the homeless people living in the U.S. Abject poverty is the poorest of the poor in India and Africa - those who have to walk 3 miles a day just for a bucket of water and have had to wear the same shirt every day for the last decade, never having the opportunity to wash it. Those who live in abject poverty are those starving children who live in other countries. The homeless of the first world are very well-fed by comparison. (and most of them know it, by the way, and consider themselves quite blessed)

Again, it’s obvious you’ve not seen the abject poverty that is very real here in America.

What’s self-centered about it? I want them to succeed and I want them to do well and I know that hard work is the key to it, and I’m trying to share the solution with them. That is the opposite of self-centered.

If that was the case for everyone, we’d have no poor to worry about.

Please, trivialize the hardships I have faced in life and continue to insinuate that I am a liar. That’ll do wonders to endear me to your perspective. Have YOU ever been homeless? Have YOU ever slept outside in sub-freezing temperatures? Had divorced parents? Tried to kill yourself? Lived below the poverty line in a bad neighborhood? Suffer severe depression for 20 years of our life? No? Then shut up about it.

I’m not insinuating that you’re a liar. I’m insinuating that you have absolutely no idea what the abject poor in America are going through. Also, telling me to “shut up” is a clear indicator that you don’t have any real points of debate in this conversation.

I think you are 100% wrong in your assessment of this situation, and you’ve yet prove otherwise.