US fast-food workers staging nationwide strike

[Cricket2]

You assume none of us have experience in minimum wage jobs, I worked in a slaughterhouse and literally shoveled guts for minimum wage when I was in college. Of course now I will mocked for telling a “pull yourself bootstraps story”

What many don’t seem to grasp is one can oppose increasing the minimum wage and still care deeply for the poor. i am grateful that minimum wage was so low when i was in college that they would hire a college kid with no skills and no experience.

What is all the hack about no skills and no experience versus having a wage you can live on. I don’t care if all a person has is a GED they deserve to be payed a living wage. Not all people are academically inclined. My sister and brother are both geniuses, but did lousy in school because it was out right boring and they could not stand the political hog wash that was part of getting an education. They never got a college degree by choice.

My sister waited tables her whole life until she became too ill to even walk across a room. She worked her fanny off and survived on tips. My brother works in maintenance, can repair anything that runs or has a motor, do electrical work, plumbing work you name it. He just can’t stand the academic hog wash and politics and refuses to play the game. He understands calculus better than I do, with my higher education, computers and programing, engineering and so on. He just does not fit the academic mold so he works at a job far beneath his actual talents and intelligence.

No one, and I mean no one should have to work for poverty wages. It is a disgusting trend and it needs to stop.

 

[Orogeny]

No one, and I mean no one should have to work for poverty wages. It is a disgusting trend and it needs to stop.

Then buy a franchise and pay your employees $25/hour (starting wages only) with benefits. There. You have your solution.

Peace

Tim

 

[estesbob]

What is all the hack about no skills and no experience versus having a wage you can live on. I don’t care if all a person has is a GED they deserve to be payed a living wage. Not all people are academically inclined. My sister and brother are both geniuses, but did lousy in school because it was out right boring and they could not stand the political hog wash that was part of getting an education. They never got a college degree by choice.

My sister waited tables her whole life until she became too ill to even walk across a room. She worked her fanny off and survived on tips. My brother works in maintenance, can repair anything that runs or has a motor, do electrical work, plumbing work you name it. He just can’t stand the academic hog wash and politics and refuses to play the game. He understands calculus better than I do, with my higher education, computers and programing, engineering and so on. He just does not fit the academic mold so he works at a job far beneath his actual talents and intelligence.

No one, and I mean no one should have to work for poverty wages. It is a disgusting trend and it needs to stop.

Of course the better solution would be for your siblings to put their God given talents to use rather than making excuses as why they can’t.

 

[estesbob]

Then buy a franchise and pay your employees $25/hour (starting wages only) with benefits. There. You have your solution.

Peace

Tim

As I’ve said many times its easy to be compassionate with other people’s money .

 

[NoRockwell]

I think it should be noted that no one wants to see people struggling in any way.

Those advocating for a higher minimum wage are doing it because they want to make sure they are getting an adequate income to live off of.

Those who are advocating the opposite (either lower minimum wage or no minimum wage at all) are doing that because there is a recognition of economic prudence and this is a way that won’t even delay the inevitable.

No one here wants to see people in woe. I think everyone here agrees that people deserve an opportunity and a chance to better their lives. The only disagreement is how it can be achieved.

Let us not make assumptions or attacks on anyone who disagrees.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

McDonalds was probably planning on doing this anyhow; I doubt that they kept cashiers working forever to be charitable. This is just an excuse for them to implement the kiosks. Personally I don’t patronize fast food joints, but if I did, I’d never go into a fast food place with kiosks or robots serving me. I want a human across the counter from me taking my order.

Self-service is happening everywhere. From self-checkout at grocery stores, to big box store that don’t offer any mechanism toget your purchases out the door (ie, no bags at all). Ordering kiosks is just another step.

Interestingly, I don’t see self-checkout or much self-service in general in higher-end groceries. So while the folks who shop at walmart or eat at mcdonalds will need to care for themselves, the wealthier folks who shop at wholefoods, say, will have a cashier, a bagger, and even someone carry the bags to their car. The prices they pay will reflect the cost of that labor. Does anyone know what the pay scales are at wholefoods or traderjoe’s? I believe upthread somewhere [edit: I think it may have been one of the other minimum wage threads, but don’t have time to look for it now.] someone posted an analysis of the difference between costco’s pay scales and walmart’s.

 

[brierpatch1974]

The thing is, if the minimum wage goes to $15/hr., the cost of everything goes up accordingly. So the minimum wage guy still can’t afford what he couldn’t afford before the wage hike. So what good does it do? Seriously, some people just don’t think things through.

This is so true. And when prices go up people in minimum wage are still poor and now you have increased the number of people who are in poverty because middle class people did not get a pay raise and now many of them can no longer afford the higher prices. Supply and demand will always dictate prices and has nothing to do with wages.

The Dems promise poor people more money and more handouts because they want to keep their elites in power. Their empty and destructive ideas are nothing more than modern day slavery of poor people to make sure they get votes to stay in power. They target the less fortunate and sadly the most uneducated groups of people to remain in power. Socialist and Democrats, with a few exceptions, are nothing more than pawns of Satan. And the same can be said about Elites in the GOP who sin with their love of money.

 

[Trader]

As I’ve said many times its easy to be compassionate with other people’s money .

As I heard on our local Catholic radio station just yesterday, “Justice does not start with demanding what others owe you; it starts with giving others what you owe them.”

There are way too many people around here whose concept of justice starts and ends with the demand that someone else should help “those people.”

Neither the rich nor the poor are homogenous groups. They are all individual human beings with both virtues and vices, who are responsible for the choices they make.

We have gone full circle in a country founded on a protest against taxation without representation to one that demands representation without taxation. “Don’t tax you and don’t tax me, tax the man behind the tree” has resulted in massive debt and unfunded promises that will hurt everyone.

 

[Farsight001]

No one, and I mean no one should have to work for poverty wages. It is a disgusting trend and it needs to stop.

high schoolers, college students, retired people with plenty of money in the bank already all deserve to work for poverty wages. Good thing that’s who’s supposed to be working at these low pay jobs. If you’ve got a family to support, the pay at these jobs is not the problem. The fact that you work there instead of somewhere else is the problem.

And you can call it an injustice or disgusting all you want, but that doesn’t’ change the fact that there is no economic way out of this other than for them to get a different job. This has been explained to you several times now, including how and exactly why it won’t work, and all you do is repeat yourself like a broken record. If you think we’re wrong about what will happen if their wages are doubled, then tell us exactly how and why you think we’re wrong. If we’re not wrong, then quit complaining, because that means there’s nothing we can do about it and the complaints are pointless. Either way, repeating over and over that it needs to stop simply doesn’t help.

 

[PaulinVA]

As I heard on our local Catholic radio station just yesterday, “Justice does not start with demanding what others owe you; it starts with giving others what you owe them.”

I’ll bite. What do I owe “them”?

 

[epan]

As I’ve said many times its easy to be compassionate with other people’s money .

And that, of course, is one of the fallacies which pops up occasionally. There is plenty in the way of resources. Money is merely an abstraction to make commerce easier.

We don’t need to get into the process of how money is created in the US, but that is another interesting topic.

 

[DeniseNY]

Of course the better solution would be for your siblings to put their God given talents to use rather than making excuses as why they can’t.

Choices have consequences

 

[Trader]

I’ll bite. What do I owe “them”?

Not much, just this:

“I give you a new commandment: love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another.
This is how all will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
John 13:34-35

That would include respect and honesty, holding people accountable for their conduct and giving them a good example. It would not include making excuses or doing anything to help them continue in sin. It is a lot harder than it sounds.

 

[Mickey_Finn]

I would agree that blaming the minimum wage exclusively for the high unemployment rate would be flawed. There are a lot of reasons why unemployment is high. High inflation caused by excessive printing, lack of incentives, excess taxation – there are many reasons. Well inflation is actually low. The main reason for unemployment these days seems to be companies building up equity with the money the Fed is printing. As opposed to hiring as was intended. Again we see greed, and self interest where we should be seeing something quite different.

The majority of Americans anyway earn much higher than the minimum wage, so of course the minimum wage isn’t the whole problem. However, the minimum wage does concern the employment of those who have less education, skills, and experience under their belts. Those are the people that we’re talking about in this thread. It may be immigrants, people trying to restart their lives, or teenagers who are just entering the workforce for the first time; these are the people the minimum wage is affecting most of all. Lets not overlook the less fortunate among the workers. For these poor souls everything in life is much more difficult. As the technology improves they get left farther, and farther behind. Things we navigate through with ease are baffling to them. it’s no wonder they make poor choices

It may also affect certain business owners if they need the employees but can’t afford them at $15 an hour. Within this economy, many of the independent businesses and Ma-And-Pa shops are running on very thin margins right now. Increasing the minimum wage is one of the best ways to really hurt the small businesses. I don’t think there are many fast food companies that are struggling.

One model that should be re-reviewed was the restoration from the Forgotten Depression of 1920. Harding left the decisions to the market to decide what policies worked best for them and their employees. In about 1.5 years, the economy was restored, and even the national debt (not the deficit, the debt) was cut by 1/3. This was when most people were buying their first car, their first refrigerator, their first radio, etc. This was a predecessor to the great depression. Caused chiefly by the market making the decisions I might add.

Again, I think people who are advocating for a higher minimum wage aren’t bad people for it. I actually think they are doing this because they care for those who are struggling. However, just because something sounds good doesn’t mean it will be good and efficient in practice.

I think those struggling should be addressed and there should be policy changes in order to make sure they aren’t left behind…but I’m not convinced this is the way to go.

 

[Geist]

I think it should be noted that no one wants to see people struggling in any way.

Those advocating for a higher minimum wage are doing it because they want to make sure they are getting an adequate income to live off of.

Those who are advocating the opposite (either lower minimum wage or no minimum wage at all) are doing that because there is a recognition of economic prudence and this is a way that won’t even delay the inevitable.

No one here wants to see people in woe. I think everyone here agrees that people deserve an opportunity and a chance to better their lives. The only disagreement is how it can be achieved.

Let us not make assumptions or attacks on anyone who disagrees.

Please keep your reasonableness out of our arguments.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

Where do you get that information from? Research.

Same here…from the mouth of business owners speaking to me in person. The last one I consulted with owns a half dozen industrial properties, a few self-storage facilities, and some shopping centers.

They’re not producing the “cheap” stuff for the simple reason that its far more expensive to produce here, and you’d have to pay far more money for it if it was produced here. Well I suppose the quality of the workers has something to do with your example. New Balance has a similar program. Their higher quality shoes are made state side. While their less expensive shoes are made in China or elsewhere. This would give the casual observer the impression that labor cost are to blame. When in fact it’s a matter of quality of product. But I would like to see some evidence that products made over seas are adjusted down cost wise to pass the savings from cheap labor on to the customer.

According to that line of argument, “cheap” quality products can be made here also. Sorry, it’s not the quality, it the cost to make the product stateside, of which labor is one of the largest costs (or the largest costs, depending on the product). The difference between the higher and lower quality products is the profit margin. That’s common sense and practice. If you go to buy a car, there is a lot more leeway percentagewise in buying a top-model BMW versus a Hyundai.

There is not a lot of evidence to support this. It may seem like a logical argument. But it’s just a threat passed on when wages must go up.

There is some leeway with very large corporations with limited competition. For the medium and smaller business, many of which has small or no profit margins, they just can’t raise prices without some offsetting actions. That’s very true in my business…for most charging more and you instantly put yourself out of business. I’m a specialist so I have more leeway.

So you say.

While it is true I have my own business, my opinions are based on what has been relayed to me by the business owners I’ve dealt with for the past 2 1/2 decades.

Feel free to start a business and pay twice what the market will bear. Get back to me and tell me how that works out.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

No one should have to work 8-16 hour days and still remain poor because some arbitrary decision has been made that they have job that is “menial, or they are unskilled or uneducated.”

It’s not limited to low-skilled jobs; there are high-skilled jobs that don’t pay well either. I wanted to be an archeologist at one point in my…until I realized what I would make after all of that schooling. I’m a musician with a ton of experience, as are many of my friends. A few are extremely talented (think Steve Vai-level guitarists, Rick Wakeman level keyboards, etc.), yet rely on public subsidies to survive.

The “menial, unskilled, uneducated” comments are simply used to tap into people’s emotions. Making public policies based on emotions, rather than common sense and economics is terrible, terrible policy. That’s how we get laws like ObamaCare, which takes something that’s broke and makes it worse.

The same issues affect the educated and talented. What determines what one makes in the market is supply and demand. Ignoring those forces damages the economy and hurts those that need help the most.

Anyone professing to be a Christian cannot in good conscience accept this.

Anyone professing to be a Christian should not be supporting ideas that force the people into a worse situation, which is exactly what arbitrarily raising the minimum wage does.

This country went through the struggle of establishing fair labor laws, stopping discrimination on the work place and child labor. It seems we need to start again, lest we go backwards. Most of the posts on this subject are disgusting. There are a few exceptions and to those people I say thank you.

Part of the problem is regulation. People only look at the minimum wage and think that’s the end all. It’s not; it’s only the beginning. Businesses are heavily regulated in the U.S., and employees are very expensive. The minimum wage is not what it cost a business to hire a person. It’s one of the many reasons the employment situation is so bad in the U.S.; dramatically increased regulation over the past several years.

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

I think it should be noted that no one wants to see people struggling in any way.

Those advocating for a higher minimum wage are doing it because they want to make sure they are getting an adequate income to live off of.

Those who are advocating the opposite (either lower minimum wage or no minimum wage at all) are doing that because there is a recognition of economic prudence and this is a way that won’t even delay the inevitable.

No one here wants to see people in woe. I think everyone here agrees that people deserve an opportunity and a chance to better their lives. The only disagreement is how it can be achieved.

Let us not make assumptions or attacks on anyone who disagrees.

Exactly.

I am 110% for helping the poor, and have gone so far as to adopted foreign children and give monthly support to others from birth to adulthood.

I am also 110% against taking emotional-based action that is well intended but ends up harming those that these actions are reputedly supposed to help.

 

[NoRockwell]

Exactly.

I am 110% for helping the poor, and have gone so far as to adopted foreign children and give monthly support to others from birth to adulthood.

I am also 110% against taking emotional-based action that is well intended but ends up harming those that these actions are reputedly supposed to help.

That’s excellent that you sponsor children in need. Where are they from?

And yes, I do agree that despite that emotion can be a driving force as we are all only human, it can sometimes interfere with prudence.

 

[NoRockwell]

Please keep your reasonableness out of our arguments.

:tiphat: