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stevegravy
Guest
You are right.Oh yeah pal? True Christians think they should get $115,000,000 per hour.
It’s ok too because McDonalds is rich and can pay it.
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Cricket2
Guest
Thank you. The most reasonable post I have seen.
I am a little tired of the words “unskilled.” All jobs require skills of some kind. Those who have never worked in the fast food industry might be surprised at how hard that work can be. Though one might argue that the intellectual challenges are minimal, the physical aspect is not. And you do have to know everything about the particular company you work for.
I think everyone should have to start in what some are calling “unskilled positions.” They might be a little more appreciative of everyone’s work and stop thinking that being on top is so almighty important.
My father had an employee once who informed him that: “You don’t pay me for what I do, you pay me for what I know.” My father advised him, that in fact the opposite was true. He told him: “Your here to work, I pay you to work, not for what you know, or think you know.”
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PaulinVA
Guest
I have no idea what point you were trying to make here. Both are true. Someone who knows the job but doesn’t work hard is just as bad as someone who works hard but doesn’t know what they are doing.
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Tampa_Dave
Guest
Cricket2,
From high school through law school graduation, I worked as a dishwasher, bus boy, waiter, lifeguard, retail salesman, and law clerk. My wife worked as a waitress during college. We climbed the economic ladder - so too may others in varying degrees according to their skills, education, training, intelligence, ambition, and perseverance. You simply cannot justify paying a menial laborer the same wage as a college graduate or tradesman.
From high school through law school graduation, I worked as a dishwasher, bus boy, waiter, lifeguard, retail salesman, and law clerk. My wife worked as a waitress during college. We climbed the economic ladder - so too may others in varying degrees according to their skills, education, training, intelligence, ambition, and perseverance. You simply cannot justify paying a menial laborer the same wage as a college graduate or tradesman.
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PaulinVA
Guest
Dave, as I said earlier, the only way for that to happen is to jack up everyone else’s salaries as well. That just leads to inflation and we are back to where we started.
If your skills are not worth $15.00 an hour, you will not be offered it. If businesses are forced to provide $15.00 an hour, they will hire fewer people and increase automation. That’s a losing solution for the unskilled crowd.
If your skills are not worth $15.00 an hour, you will not be offered it. If businesses are forced to provide $15.00 an hour, they will hire fewer people and increase automation. That’s a losing solution for the unskilled crowd.
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Mickey_Finn
Guest
Well that is not a given. If you take into account the massive increase in worker productivity, and stagnate wages earned. Employers are certainly well ahead of the game. As we emerge from this recession we’ll be looking for wages across the board to rise significantly. This will obviously come from profit margins. So it goes.
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Farsight001
Guest
Yes, I can, in fact know, as everyone chooses. I don’t have a job right now at all. Its because until very recently, I wasn’t even bothering to apply for jobs. That’s my choice. And if I apply at mcdonalds, I will have chosen to work there. If I apply elsewhere, then i am choosing other places to work. If I work at mcdonalds and i don’t try hard to get another job, it remains my choice to stay working there. The choice can be easier and harder depending on the level of education one has, among other things, but it is still their choice.
Places like McDonalds are for high schoolers and college students for extra cash. Anyone making it a career choice brings it on themselves. You CANNOT fix poverty by increasing their pay. If you do that, you increase costs, and in doing so, raise the poverty line, so they just stay below it. Get high school and college students into those jobs, and people who want a living wage out of those jobs.
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ProVobis
Guest
But even so, why pay someone a waiter’s fair salary if there are no customers? Wouldn’t it be better to pay based on the marketability of your services?
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Tampa_Dave
Guest
If there are no customers, you simply lay off the waiter. At profitable higher end restaurants, wait staffs make more money. Profitable owners can thus afford to be selective in choosing a quality wait staff. Good waiters make more money at such establishments and less marketable waiters, i.e., those less skilled, earn less money at lower end restaurants. Wait staff are retained in accordance with their marketability and paid appropriately.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Bingo!
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qui_est_ce
Guest
Yes, exactly. Why work at McDonald’s when there are plenty of wait staff positions. My son is a waiter and rakes in the money. He has never had trouble finding a job in the restaurant business.
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Tampa_Dave
Guest
Good for your son! Since he “rakes in the money”, I assume he’s highly skilled and very marketable. He may ascend to finer restaurants over the years and make serious money. I admire his initiative.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
YUPGood for your son! Since he “rakes in the money”, I assume he’s highly skilled and very marketable. He may ascend to finer restaurants over the years and make serious money. I admire his initiative.
He actually does work higher end. His move into the restaurant business started in the kitchen washing dishes about 2 years ago. He would hurry up and finish and ask to work in food prep. He quickly learned how to bake bread from scratch, make sauces, etc. Then he started bussing for people who called off. If they called him to work an unscheduled shift, he would always be available. From there he went to serving.
He is 26 and owns his own home. His roommate basically covers the mortgage. He’s not married and has no children.
He turned to the restaurant business after working at a unionized grocery store since he was 16 (8 years at the same chain). He made less than minimum wage after union dues and he got no union benefits because he worked less than 30 hours. He was a bagger, moved to cashier, then went to meat. He tried to take initiative, which is how he got up to the meat department. But there he languished. It was a union shop, and he wasn’t allowed to do anything outside his defined duties. He tried to make the display cases look better, but got no recognition. He wanted to be a butcher, but the union wouldn’t let him.
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ahaley
Guest
So the federal government sets a minimum wage then proceeds to say that people making the minimum wage don’t make enough are eligible for various welfare benefits. Please tell me where McDonalds or any other business factors into this.
It’s mind-blowing that a company can compensate an employee in full compliance with federal law and still somehow be labelled “the ultimate welfare queen”.
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Cricket2
Guest
My point is that some folks have become so sure that their degree(s) entitle them to higher pay and to employment that is “not beneath them” that they have forgotten what honest work is. The man who made this remark to my father thought his degree entitled him to more pay and even a promotion.
Unfortunately his work ethic was horrible and half the time he seemed to be totally unaware of what he supposedly learned in obtaining his degree. He might have had the paper that said he was qualified for the job, but when it came down to it, he had no ability to do the job well.
All work is good and meaningful unless it is for harmful intent. Treating people like idiots because they have a “low skill job” is mean and certainly not in line with being a Christian. Actually by what you said I think you do understand what I was getting at.
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qui_est_ce
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Cricket, nobody here is calling anybody an “idiot” or treating them that way. What we are saying is that the mind set of those who think minimum wage should be $15.00 is incorrect.
I happen to have a degree in accounting. Actually, I worked in the daytime and went to school at night to get my degree. I currently work for a small family owned business by CHOICE, and thereby earn far less in wages and benefits than I would if I worked in the corporate world.
My company cleans office buildings. We hire people that often are unemployable: no HS diplomas, unmotivated, no skills. We treat our people with respect. There are many here who started at minimum wage and are now building supervisors. That makes me sooo happy.
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qui_est_ce
Guest
So far, people here have not displayed the attitude you put on them. We have all told you how we worked menial jobs to get through school and to where we are.
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ProVobis
Guest
A friend of mine who has a masters degree in aeronautical engineering recently found a job with the post office for $15/hr. He’s happy just to have a job at this point. And to think at one time these professions pulled in hefty salaries in the sixties and seventies.
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Peebo
Guest
well boo-hoo…some of you need to get out your bible and read Matthew 20: 1-16…the parable of the vineyard workers…it boils down to…what someone else earns is none of your (or mine) business…if some sanitary worker…who didn’t get past 7th grade and earns $20 per hour…what has that to do with you or me…if you have a college degree and aren’t getting that much…well tough luck…find a job that pays more and stop complaining about what others earn…or become a sanitary worker yourself…there is nothing wrong with having a degree…in fact it is commendable for anyone to achieve…but if you think you deserve more than someones else…well…read the last verse…so the last will be first and the first will be last
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stevegravy
Guest
And I still call you cheapskates.
You argue for an arbitrary increase of $15/hr., I said if arbitrarily you can go to $15/hr. why not $115/hr., and someone came back with $115,000/hr. No one comments, because you know that is just ludicrous and your right.
Discussions of salaries and wages end with the question of the relative worth of the effort to produce the goods and services in question. It is not a fixed hard standard like a unit of measurement but of relative worth between the one offering the labor and the one purchasing the labor. And flipping burgers isn’t worth $115,000/hr. to anybody but a twerking, allege entertainer might get paid that because of some advertiser on some music award program, even if the twerker can not sing.
Everyone whines about high executive wages but no one complains about what Tom Brady hauls in for playing a kids game. The hypocrisy is astounding.
And another thing while I am at it what is a living wage? And if your labor isn’t woth a living wage who’s fault is that anyway?
You argue for an arbitrary increase of $15/hr., I said if arbitrarily you can go to $15/hr. why not $115/hr., and someone came back with $115,000/hr. No one comments, because you know that is just ludicrous and your right.
Discussions of salaries and wages end with the question of the relative worth of the effort to produce the goods and services in question. It is not a fixed hard standard like a unit of measurement but of relative worth between the one offering the labor and the one purchasing the labor. And flipping burgers isn’t worth $115,000/hr. to anybody but a twerking, allege entertainer might get paid that because of some advertiser on some music award program, even if the twerker can not sing.
Everyone whines about high executive wages but no one complains about what Tom Brady hauls in for playing a kids game. The hypocrisy is astounding.
And another thing while I am at it what is a living wage? And if your labor isn’t woth a living wage who’s fault is that anyway?
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