US Jews protest Catholic document on salvation

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NEW YORK — Major Jewish groups and rabbis from the three largest branches of American Judaism said Thursday that their relationship with Roman Catholic leaders is at risk because of a recent U.S. bishops’ statement on salvation.
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Jewish groups said they interpret the new document to mean that the bishops view interfaith dialogue as a chance to invite Jews to become Catholic. The Jewish leaders said they “pose no objection” to Christians sharing their faith, but said dialogue with Jews becomes “untenable” if the goal is to persuade Jews to accept Christ as their savior. “A declaration of this sort is antithetical to the very essence of Jewish-Christian dialogue as we have understood it,” Jewish leaders said in a letter to the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. The signers were the Anti-Defamation League, the American Jewish Committee and rabbis representing the Orthodox, Conservative and Reform movements. The statement fueling the tension was issued by the bishops in June to clarify a 2002 document called “Covenant and Mission.” The bishops said the earlier document mistakenly played down the importance of sharing the Gospel and was therefore misleading.
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“While the Catholic Church does not proselytize the Jewish people, neither does she fail to witness to them her faith in Christ, nor to welcome them to share in that same faith whenever appropriate,” said Bishop William Lori of Bridgeport, Conn., chairman of a bishops’ committee on doctrine. He had said the revisions affirmed statements from the Holy See.
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The tensions are rooted in a complex theological debate about salvation for those outside the Catholic Church. Discussion of the issue between Jews and Catholics focuses on the significance of the ancient covenant between God and the Jews.
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Pope John Paul II had spoken repeatedly of a covenant “never revoked.” Many Jewish groups view the bishops’ statement as stepping back from the pope’s position. Sister Mary Ann Walsh, a spokeswoman for the U.S. bishops, said Thursday: “Catholic-Jewish dialogue has been important to the U.S. bishops for almost 50 years. The bishops have just received the letter and currently are studying it.”
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google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iIzMJjNuGIYxUbL5QH9knQV1j5PQD9A73VKG1
 
There comes a time when you need to politely say, “I disagree with you, but I respect your opinion and I hope that you will respect mine.” It’s no secret that Jesus is a stumbling block to many Jews today, just as He was 2000 years ago.
 
Jesus is a stumbling block to the Moslums too.
But we love our neighbor right!!
Ask your pastor to return this prayer to the Mass.:)🙂

Holy Michael, the Archangel, defend us in battle; be our safe guard against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him we humbly pray; and you, Prince of the heavenly host, by the power of God cast into hell Satan and all the evil spirits, who wander through the world seeking the ruin of souls.:)🙂
Amen
Most Sacred Heart of Jesus; have mercy on us:):)🙂
 
Who cares what the Jews think. It is one thing to respect the Jews, it is another to be a relativist. If the Catholic Church can’t proclaim the Gospel of Jesus Christ then it is not the Church and it is time to become Orthodox Christian because they have no fear of proclaiming faith in Christ.
 
I agree with Jimmy. What did these Jewish leaders think that dialogue with the Catholic Church would center on, if not Jesus Christ? We’re not here to coddle Jews, Muslims, etc. Be offended, fine, but to protest that we think you ought to accept Christ, just as we’ve thought for the past two thousand years…well, that’s not us “stepping back” from anything, now is it? 🤷
 
dzheremi said:
I agree with Jimmy. What did these Jewish leaders think that dialogue with the Catholic Church would center on, if not Jesus Christ? We’re not here to coddle Jews, Muslims, etc. Be offended, fine, but to protest that we think you ought to accept Christ, just as we’ve thought for the past two thousand years…well, that’s not us “stepping back” from anything, now is it? 🤷
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i agree. I don’t understand what else would the dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Jewish community center around? Food?
 
aborodki said:
i agree. I don’t understand what else would the dialogue between the Catholic Church and the Jewish community center around? Food?
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LOL

Yeah, it really doesn’t matter. Most Jews aren’t Jewish anyways, but rather atheists.
 
I believe that part of the problem is right here. The tone of voice that the Catholic and the Jews are using toward each other does not promote a dialogue of any kind. It is more of resistence on the part of the Jews and in your face on the part of the Catholic laity.

It may be better if the Catholic laity stayed out of this discussion. Let’s face it. The Catholic laity is well known for its extremes, either too indiffeerent or too aggressive. The conservative Jews are known for being highly defensive. So that mix does not work either.

I believe that Bishop Lori had the right of it. and should have been left on his own. When he first made his observations the Jewish community was find with them. As soon as the laity jumped on that wagon, every other defensive Jew jumped on the other.

When is humanity going to learn to let those who talk, speak and the rest listen? I for one trust Bishop Lori, having had the honor of serving in same Archdiocese with him many years go. He’s a bright man and moves very slowly on issues, but is not a doormat.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
WillieWonka said:
Well, how about converting Catholics to Judaism?
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You’re looking at this from a Christian point of view. Because Jews believe that they are God’s chosen people, they do not seek converts to Judaism the way Christians seek converts to Christianity. Mentality is different. Christians believe that it is their “job” to bring others to salvation thru Jesus. Jews believe that if God wanted to save the person, he would have put it in that person’s heart to become a Jew. All these “outreach” programs are always initiated by Christians.
 
JReducation said:
I believe that part of the problem is right here. The tone of voice that the Catholic and the Jews are using toward each other does not promote a dialogue of any kind. It is more of resistence on the part of the Jews and in your face on the part of the Catholic laity.

It may be better if the Catholic laity stayed out of this discussion. Let’s face it. The Catholic laity is well known for its extremes, either too indiffeerent or too aggressive. The conservative Jews are known for being highly defensive. So that mix does not work either.

I believe that Bishop Lori had the right of it. and should have been left on his own. When he first made his observations the Jewish community was find with them. As soon as the laity jumped on that wagon, every other defensive Jew jumped on the other.

When is humanity going to learn to let those who talk, speak and the rest listen? I for one trust Bishop Lori, having had the honor of serving in same Archdiocese with him many years go. He’s a bright man and moves very slowly on issues, but is not a doormat.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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Tone does indeed matter, and liberal Jews especially do not help the matter by their attitude toward Torah. It is hypocritical for them to echo the protests of believers when they do not themselves believe.
 
JReducation said:
I believe that part of the problem is right here. The tone of voice that the Catholic and the Jews are using toward each other does not promote a dialogue of any kind. It is more of resistence on the part of the Jews and in your face on the part of the Catholic laity.

It may be better if the Catholic laity stayed out of this discussion. Let’s face it. The Catholic laity is well known for its extremes, either too indiffeerent or too aggressive. The conservative Jews are known for being highly defensive. So that mix does not work either.

I believe that Bishop Lori had the right of it. and should have been left on his own. When he first made his observations the Jewish community was find with them. As soon as the laity jumped on that wagon, every other defensive Jew jumped on the other.

When is humanity going to learn to let those who talk, speak and the rest listen? I for one trust Bishop Lori, having had the honor of serving in same Archdiocese with him many years go. He’s a bright man and moves very slowly on issues, but is not a doormat.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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I am 23, so if there is a history component here, fill me in on it. But I do not understand this hostility between Jews and Catholics in America. This is not the Soviet Union where Jews were moved to pogroms, American Christians are extremely supportive of Israel and many families are mixed ( half my family is Jewish.) What right does either side have to distrust the other?
 
aborodki said:
But I do not understand this hostility between Jews and Catholics in America. This is not the Soviet Union where Jews were moved to pogroms, American Christians are extremely supportive of Israel and many families are mixed ( half my family is Jewish.) What right does either side have to distrust the other?
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Irving Kristol, the famous Jewish neo-conservative still recalls growing us as a kid in 1930s America and his strict rabbi “teaching us to hate the goyim and to spit whenever we passed a church.” Irving Kristol Neo-Conservatism: Selected Essays. pg. 4. History from the old country did come here too. And there was in the past in the U.S.A. strong discrimination against the Jews from entering higher education back in the 30s and 40s or even joining social clubs.

Now it seems, many prominent Jews like Kristol (a friend of conservative Christians) worry tremendously about the assimilation factor. Jews in the U.S.A. are intermarrying in higher percentages than ever before because of their full acceptance into American society. Children of these mixed marriages sometimes may become Episcopelian (an editor of the New York Times (Sulzberger) or agnostic, or even if not from mixed marriages but Jewish, may become Catholic (Kudlow or the late Robert Novak I believe). While Irving Kristol appreciates greatly the opportunities the U.S. has given Jews like no other country outside of Israel ever has, he worries about Jewry’s future in America and its survival, almost to the point of basically saying “Quit Loving us so much!” so that we don’t all just assimilate.

I believe this is part of the fear of Catholic proselytism.

Just my 2 cents, hope not to have offended anyone.
 
aborodki said:
I am 23, so if there is a history component here, fill me in on it. But I do not understand this hostility between Jews and Catholics in America. This is not the Soviet Union where Jews were moved to pogroms, American Christians are extremely supportive of Israel and many families are mixed ( half my family is Jewish.) What right does either side have to distrust the other?
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I don’t think I would say that there is bad blood between Judaism and Catholicism in the USA. Lately, there is a tendency between SOME Catholics and Jews who can’t seem to keep their mouths shut and leat their leaders speak to each other.

I’m a great believer in subsidiarity and scholarship. In my Jewish Catholic experience, I have found that when the leadership speaks to each other and then communicates with its constituents it has a way of communicating goals and means in a more meaningful way less threatening.

When the lay peoeple, on either side have gotten into an exchange over their faith, there have been some ugly confrontations. I’m reminded of Rabbi Klinecke and Pope Benedict XVI. Rabbi Klinecke was one of the most prominent scholars on Carmelite mysticism and the only non Catholic theologian who was awarded membership in the Order of St. Gregory the Great, an organization for leading Catholic theologians. He taught at several very prominent Pontifical universities in Europe and the USA.

This was made possible, because of Rabbi Klinecke’s interest in Carmelite spirituality and his friendship with now Cardinal Sean O’Malley when the Cardinal was Brother Sean O’Malley in the Archdiocese of Washiington. Even though the Rabbi never converted, he certainly learned a great deal about Carmelite prayer and taught many others to enter into the spirit of Teresa and John.

When you have friendship, dialogue builds. Dialogue leads to trust. Trust leads to interest. Gradually interest may lead to conversion. Even if you do not convert the Rabbi, you may convert others who are watching the interaction. That’s the beauty of patience and gentle and persuasive rhetoric.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I say forget both the gentle persuasion and brutal polemics. Let’s get the cardinals and the “rabbis” to do a trial by fire, St.Francis vs. the Sultan-style.
 
aborodki said:
You’re looking at this from a Christian point of view. Because Jews believe that they are God’s chosen people, they do not seek converts to Judaism the way Christians seek converts to Christianity. Mentality is different. Christians believe that it is their “job” to bring others to salvation thru Jesus. Jews believe that if God wanted to save the person, he would have put it in that person’s heart to become a Jew. All these “outreach” programs are always initiated by Christians.
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I realize that. A subset of Christians have a long history of being very uncomfortable with competing belief systems.
 
aborodki said:
I am 23, so if there is a history component here, fill me in on it. But I do not understand this hostility between Jews and Catholics in America. This is not the Soviet Union where Jews were moved to pogroms, American Christians are extremely supportive of Israel and many families are mixed ( half my family is Jewish.) What right does either side have to distrust the other?
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Jews and Christians get along just fine in the US. There is a very small group on each side that is inteested in these things, but, even then they confine their efforts to the printed page.
 
aborodki said:
You’re looking at this from a Christian point of view. Because Jews believe that they are God’s chosen people, they do not seek converts to Judaism the way Christians seek converts to Christianity. Mentality is different. Christians believe that it is their “job” to bring others to salvation thru Jesus. Jews believe that if God wanted to save the person, he would have put it in that person’s heart to become a Jew. All these “outreach” programs are always initiated by Christians.
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You’re assuming that we think that there’s something for the individual to be ‘saved’ from in the first place - Judaism doesn’t ‘work’ like Christianity.

We don’t seek conversions because we don’t think that Christians are disadvantaged by being Christians.
 
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