US satellite recorded checkpoint shooting, shows speed of Italian car: CBS

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The Italians should smile graciously, give the Americans the “Italian salute” and withdraw their forces from Iraq.

We can make up for the loss of the Italians by calling up some more Reservists, so there’s no problem.
 
Italy only has about 2000 troops in Iraq. The US has over 141,000. If the Italians want to leave I say let them go and when they do we should close all our bases in Italy. We have more than 2000 troops in Italy so we could just send those to Iraq and not have to call up any reserves. Italy plans to pull out by September anyway, so big deal if they leave now.
 
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Lance:
Italy only has about 2000 troops in Iraq. The US has over 141,000. If the Italians want to leave I say let them go and when they do we should close all our bases in Italy. We have more than 2000 troops in Italy so we could just send those to Iraq and not have to call up any reserves. Italy plans to pull out by September anyway, so big deal if they leave now.
Sounds right. Those U.S. troops now enjoying sunny Italy will appreciate the extra sun in Iraq. The food won’t be as good, though.

Bush won’t close our bases in Italy as they are more valuable to us than a few thousand U.S. or Italian soldiers more or less in Iraq.
 
ITALIAN REPORT ON AGENT’S DEATH DEFLATES U.S. VERSION

ROME - Italian investigators believe there is no evidence that the car carrying Italian agent Nicola Calipari was going too fast when he was killed in ‘friendly’ US fire in Iraq, informed sources have revealed.

A report drafted by the two Italians who took part in the Italian-American enquiry into the March 4 incident also contests the claim that the US soldiers responsible had stuck to the rules of engagement, the sources said.

Calipari was killed as he and another agent escorted a just-released hostage, Giuliana Sgrena, by car to Baghdad airport. Their Toyota Corolla came under fire from US soldiers manning a make-shift checkpoint.

The Italian foreign ministry and the State Department in Washington released a statement on Friday confirming that the two countries had failed to agree on the conclusions of the joint probe into the killing.

“They couldn’t ask us to sign a reconstruction that didn’t correspond to our own,” said Foreign Minister Gianfranco Fini. The US is expected to release its own report in a few days. It is unclear whether Italy will publish a report of its own, however Premier Silvio Berlusconi is scheduled to report to parliament on the affair next week.

According to sources familiar with the Italian report, it dismisses American claims that the Toyota was travelling at an excessive speed - a claim which might justify the soldiers’ reaction.

The report cites two witnesses - Sgrena and the car’s driver - who say the vehicle was doing no more than 50 km/h when suddenly a spotlight was directed at it and shots were immediately fired. A CBS news report, citing Pentagon sources, claimed yesterday that pictures were taken of the incident by a US military satellite and that these images had enabled experts to calculate the speed at 96 km/h.

According to Italian intelligence sources, this is not to be believed. No satellite could have filmed the event because there was too much cloud cover, they said.

The Italian investigators are also believed to have refuted claims by US colleagues that the soldiers who shot at the Toyota Corolla were obeying the rules of engagement for that situation.

This is a crucial element in the US military’s reported decision to take no action against the soldier or soldiers who killed the Italian agent.

The Italian report argues that there are no specific rules of engagement for soldiers manning a mobile checkpoint, such as the one on the airport road on March 4. Hence, the authors say, it is meaningless to say soldiers adhered to them.

The report also spells out the difficult task faced by the Italian officials sent to Baghdad to take part in the probe. By the time they arrived there, the US authorities had already carried out enquiries and the scene of the incident was completely “contaminated”.

Link - ansa.it/main/notizie/rubriche/approfondimenti/20050429192133407373.html
 
Italy may challenge US spy death report

May 2, 2005 - 10:39AM

Italy is expected to pick apart US conclusions on the shooting by American soldiers of an Italian agent in Baghdad, challenging a report which cleared US troops of any wrongdoing in the incident.

Italy said it would make public its own version of the dynamics surrounding the March 4 death of agent Nicola Calipari, who had just won the release of an Italian hostage Giuliana Sgrena when he was shot at a temporary US checkpoint on the road to Baghdad airport.

The Italian Foreign Ministry said on its website that Italy’s report would illustrate problems of coordination with authorities in Iraq and with rules of engagement for checkpoints.

Italian newspapers said that Italian investigators would differ on several points with their US counterparts.

The US military released its report on Sunday, saying American soldiers did not do anything wrong.

The report contended that the car failed to slow down at the checkpoint and that the Italians did not communicate their hostage rescue mission to US authorities.

In contrast, the Italian report will contend that US authorities were informed of the operation several hours before the shooting and were told of Sgrena’s release 25 minutes before Calipari was killed, newspapers Corriere della Sera and La Repubblica said.
The Italian report will argue that rapid removal of evidence from the site of the shooting made a proper inspection impossible, the papers said.

The two Italian experts who participated in the joint US-Italian probe - a diplomat and a military intelligence general - refused to sign off on the Americans’ conclusions.

When several days of negotiations failed to yield a common report, both sides went their own way on the findings.

The two sides are long-standing allies, and Italy is a main partner in the US-led coalition in Iraq.

Italy’s approximately 3,000 troops who were deployed in Iraq for reconstruction constitute one of the coalition’s largest contingents.

Although the opposition praised the government’s decision to dispute the US version, Premier Silvio Berlusconi, a staunch American ally, will have to deal with other political fallout over the case, including calls to bring home Italy’s troops from Iraq.

Roberto Calderoli, reforms minister in the conservative government, said differences over the investigation into Calipari’s death should trigger “an attentive and deep reflection on when our troops should come back”, according to comments reported in La Stampa newspaper.

The US report contained many blacked-out portions, including the names of the soldiers at the checkpoint and their units.

But due to apparent error, what was blacked out in the report could be read in some downloaded versions.

US authorities in Iraq said on Sunday they were aware of the situation and were looking into it. In Washington, officials at the Pentagon did not return calls.

Some of the material which had been blacked out discussed training for checkpoint duty and checkpoint procedures.

Other parts listed the number of attacks over recent months on the road to Baghdad airport, the techniques used by insurgents to plant explosives on the route and methods used by the US military to counter these.

Link smh.com.au/news/World/Italy-may-challenge-US-spy-death-report/2005/05/02/1114886288303.html?oneclick=true
 
gilliam said:
Pundits Pan ‘Face-Saving’ Report On Iraq Shooting

Commentators yesterday heaped scorn on Italy’s “face-saving” report on U.S. soldiers’ shooting of the top Italian intelligence agent in Baghdad as Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi fought off mounting pressure to withdraw Italian troops from Iraq.

When free countries like Germany and France exercise their freedom and decline to become US allies in an illegal invasion they are attacked and villified as if they were enemies of the USA.

When a country allies itself to the US in this enterprise, even to the extent of having many of its brave young men killed in action, it still gets villified and scorned if even for a moment it utters the slightest suspicion of a whisper of a criticism of its ally.

You guys are surprised that the rest of the world doesnt love you. The surprising thing really is that you are loved so much. Try a bit of generousity of spirit sometime. It wins more friends for you.
 
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Matt25:
When free countries like Germany and France exercise their freedom and decline to become US allies in an illegal invasion they are attacked and villified as if they were enemies of the USA.

When a country allies itself to the US in this enterprise, even to the extent of having many of its brave young men killed in action, it still gets villified and scorned if even for a moment it utters the slightest suspicion of a whisper of a criticism of its ally.

You guys are surprised that the rest of the world doesnt love you. The surprising thing really is that you are loved so much. Try a bit of generousity of spirit sometime. It wins more friends for you.
  1. Free countries like Germany and France became villified because they put their business dealings with Saddam ahead of there relationship with us.
  2. Standing up for the troops that fight for our country by disagreeing with the viewpoint of an ally is not villification, especially when the facts support our position.
  3. The US is disliked because other counties resent our wealth, success, and the leadership position we hold in the world. Some countries also dislike us because we stand up for freedom and they don’t. We’re far from perfect, but I’ll put this country up against any other in comparison.
  4. The US is also loved so much because we are the most generous country in the world and we stand up for freedom. In terms of money, time, and spilled blood, no country is as generous as ours.
 
When I first heard this story, it seemed to me to be a prime example of cultural misunderstanding. I once traveled by car from northern Italy, around Sicily and back up the boot to Austria. Driving is a sport and an art for Italians and they are very competent. 60 miles an hour is a normal speed for an Italian. Americans are by comparison very obedient to traffic regulations and speed limits ( except for those from Michigan). I can just see in my mind’s eye, the driver talking on his cell phone, talking with the others in the car, and travelling on a wet surface at a high speed. If the outcome hadn’t been so tragic, it would be an amusing contrast in drivng culture.
By the way, from Vatican Radio, I learned that the killed agent’s (may he rest in peace) brother is a priest on one of the Pontifical Councils - I believe it was the Pontifical Council for Life.

Tragic mistakes seem to be part and parcel of any war or law enforcement activity.
 
It is a sad mistake and it should be noted as such. But this talk of the US deliberately targeting the car is foolish…how can people think that? Its a big country…like the soldiers passed around pictures of that women and the itallian agents so they could fire on them the next time they saw them, just silly.
 
ive you my pea
Tyler Smedley:
It is a sad mistake and it should be noted as such. But this talk of the US deliberately targeting the car is foolish…how can people think that? Its a big country…like the soldiers passed around pictures of that women and the itallian agents so they could fire on them the next time they saw them, just silly.
The Italian report says nothing of the kind. It suggests that young scared soldiers in a state of fear opened fire prematurely. It is no surprise if such things happen. The British in occupied Ireland often did that and they did not have suicide bombers to deal with.

I think the point is that in saying the soldiers kept to the rules of engagement the US may not be telling the entire truth. No one can blame soldiers for being scared in the circumstances but why not acknowledge that accidents like this happen rather than trying to blame the
 
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