US seizes four Iranian oil tankers heading for Venezuela

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And could be seen as siding with dictators in this sense.
 
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Then please outline the “logical fallacy”, I was talking about current news and refugees. Your point is not coherent unless you explain it.

Yes, and let’s go to the heart of the matter, Rwanda, Bosnia, Venezuela, many times people ask for help vs. all this anti-Americanism and they in Venezuela ask for help now.
 
Victoria33 said:
Rwanda, Bosnia,
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Rwanda where more Hutus died than Tutsis and where a dictator invaded a neighboring country to carry out further ethnic cleansing of Hutus?

Bosnia where we helped ethnically cleanse Serbs, where Srebrenica was used as a base to attack Serb villages in the surrounding areas, where the president watched videos of Serbs being beheaded by his forces?

We have a horrible record of intervention and veritable imperialism. It’s time for the US to go home.
 
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Ok, now I am going to discuss issues, callling the US the world’s police man, derogatory was addresses

Well, fine. Think that and no body is crying. That again is insulting. We are known by what we have posted in the past.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.local10.com/news/2019/03/13/here-is-list-of-countries-recognizing-juan-guaido-as-venezuelas-interim-president/%3FoutputType=amp

Most of the free world and probably more importantly, most of Latin America recognize the Guiado presidency so going into anti-umperialistic statements seem to just be besides the point. Those governments are from the article.
Juan Guaidó is recognized as the interim president by dozens of countries including the United States and European Union member states.

Albania

Andorra

Argentina

Australia

Austria

Bahamas

Belgium

Brazil

Bulgaria

Canada

Chile

Colombia

Costa Rica

Croatia

Czech Republic

Denmark

Dominican Republic

Ecuador

Estonia

Finland

France

Georgia

Germany

Guatemala

Haiti

Honduras

Hungary

Ice Land

Ireland

Israel

Kosovo

Latvia

Lithuania

Luxembourg

Macedonia

Malta

Marshall Islands

Micronesia

Montenegro

Morocco

Netherlands

Panama

Paraguay

Peru

Poland

Portugal

Romania

Slovenia

Spain

Sweden

United Kingdom

United States
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Above list from March, 2019. Sweden may have left the list, other countries have joined it

So, may be these other countries have placed sanctions on them as well, to just blame America. It seems indeed, unfair.
 
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So . . . .The point is, in other words that the US is not always perfect. Got it, that can be said in any thread and I think most of us know that. Thank you.
 
I believe we should help refugees, I can’t speak for anyone else. Arguably, this helps refugees who should be able to live in their own country.

Those other countries are not world powers. We are talking about many nations having disapproval of Venezuela’s government.
 
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I’m sure there is a valid reason with precedence.

If they were heading ‘to’ Venezuela, I assume they were going there to fill up. Taking Iranian tankers that have been breaking sanctions will definitely increase the pressure.
 
Please, Margaret Thatcher? UK as a declining power?

I will not go off topic, others can, however calling the UK a declining power seems inappropriate.
 
US says it seized 4 Iranian fuel shipments headed for Venezuela

American officials tell AP Trump administration seized cargo of four tankers transporting Iranian fuel to Venezuela.

The United States said it had confiscated four Iranian fuel shipments that had been bound for Venezuela, disrupting a key supply line for both Tehran and Caracas as they defied US sanctions.

US President Donald Trump said Iran should not be sending cargoes to Venezuela and added that the seized shipments were bound for Houston, Texas, and suggested they may have already arrived.

“They’re going to Houston. And, they’re there,” Trump told a White House news conference. "We’re moving them, and moved, to Houston.
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https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/08/200814043301330.html

Fuel “From” Iran… your statement was not totally clear.
 
I guess when you boil it down, no country is without its’ faults, but I suppose the fact that people can criticize the US and not be imprisoned or disappear never to be seen again counts for something surely. The hammer and sickle would be on top of many countries flagpoles if it wasn’t for the US, and they still have their own flags.
 
Exactly. The US is not some innocent dove just trying to make the world a better place. Economic and political interests are paramount.
 
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I think it’s true for all countries that they take economic and political considerations into account when helping other countries. The US certainly poured many billions of dollars into Europe and Japan after the second world war, they didn’t have to, but it made economic and political sense to do so. That way they not only got those economies running but also forged new trade deals and formed new alliances with former enemies, and benefited in the process, plus I think that America still holds the basic Christian principle of helping your neighbor.
 
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Everyone has a right to speak, if one brings in stuff we read from antiwar.com or other places, fair enough to say that. I read those boards. If one posts arguments that could have been said 15, 20 years ago, etc. I have the free speech to say that too. Libya, Venezuela, feel free to use whatever topic to slight the US, fine. But it doesn’t seem to pertinent.
 
I’ve never studied that deeply into it, people blame Obama and Clinton for our role in the 2009 Honduras, well, they are calling it a coup:


Leftwing sources say that the refugee crisis in Central America stems from this. In part at least, also the 1980s Central American wars under Reagan/Bush and actually, they start a bit before the '80s.

So, don’t dare think we don’t know our history in it. Right now, again, the present makes it pretty clear what’s going on in Venezuela. Different circumstances.
 
Mexico, as an example, is torn by the drug wars. Then, it has it’s semi-autonomous area in Chiapas.

en.wikipedia.org

Subcomandante Marcos - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Headed by “Subcomandante Marcos”, it really does seem that autonomous (or semiauthonomous, however it is correct to say) is probably better and more peaceful than the rest of the country.

If you live in countries with great strife and it appears that even the leaders are crooked and I mean that in a major way… one may wonder what is the best way forward. We see this in Egypt, it’s a recurring theme. So, don’t think we are not aware of the possibilities.

Now, Mexico reportedly in AMLO, Armando Miguel Lopez Obrador, has a “left wing” president but there is too much adversity for him. He succeeds at some things but in the big picture, I question as to whether that can be very effective.
 
Victoria33 said:
Everyone has a right to speak, if one brings in stuff we read from antiwar.com or other places, fair enough to say that. I read those boards. If one posts arguments that could have been said 15, 20 years ago, etc. I have the free speech to say that too. Libya, Venezuela, feel free to use whatever topic to slight the US, fine. But it doesn’t seem to pertinent.
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Well I have to say, that’s cool. I read antiwar.com too. And good on you for bringing up the Honduras coup and the Zapatistas.

I generally prefer more local control of resources and government. Because of that I prefer free markets generally, and I think a large part of the problems in Mexico stem from NAFTA, which wasn’t a free trade deal so much as a government sponsored trade deal.

It’s because I like my country that I don’t want us involved in these endless wars and interventions. I don’t want ‘blowback’ occuring and killing more of my fellow citizens here or abroad. In that sense one could call me a patriot. I’m not the flag waving type, but not because I like big authoritarian governments abroad. I despise them here at home and abroad.

I’m an America First type guy, but more in the vein of the original group (unfairly targeted as isolationist and anti-Semitic as documented by numerous historians and scholars) than Trump’s idea of it.
 
That’s because the country is dysfunctional, broken down.


From an earlier shipment in May, we did not impede those ships. By the way, I have no idea as to the political leanings of this website:

The arrival of these ships occurs amid an acute shortage of gasoline in the Latin American nation, aggravated by the social and collective quarantine decreed to prevent the COVID-19 pandemic since March 16.

In the vicinity of the service stations there are endless queues of cars waiting for several days to fill up their tanks. An unusual scene in a country that became famous for «selling» the cheapest gasoline in the world.

The crisis even affects the oil supply so that the agricultural production tasks can function and for the transport of food from the rural sectors to the markets.
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OK, indeed, this seems to be a Chilean website sympathetic to Latin American socialists (RT, Telesur are linked, the first Russia Today, the 2nd, the Venezuelan state broadcaster). But the info is out there for those who care to research it.
 
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