US should return stolen land to Indian tribes, says United Nations

[oldcelt]

History has long demonstrated that power conquers until another power conquers them. The “natives” in North America never were the noble creatures that some would say they were…at least in the Eastern US.

They would establish villages…exhaust the local flora and fauna…and then move on. These same tribes/nations, were far behind the Bronze Age inhabitants of the British Isles in the same time frame.

Unfortunately, these people were ripe for conquest…which is exactly what happened.

BTW, before anyone assails me on this, consider that the Erie Indians are long gone at the hands of the Seneca Nation…and, I have actually explored their sites as an archaeologist/historian.

You can’t return what was never owned.

John

 

[Dale_M]

Perhaps worth mentioning is that the news article concerns the recommendation of one person, the UN special rapporteur for the Human Rights of Indigenous People.

Special rapporteurs are tasked by the UN Human Rights Commission to investigate allegations of human rights violations, and then make recommendations to the government responsible for correcting the violations. In this case, that government is the US. And the special rapporteur is frustrated because no one in the US Congress (which sets treaties with Native American tribes and is responsible for overseeing their protection) wants to meet with him.

The news article is not about a decision made by the UN Security Council, or the UN General Assembly, or even the UN Human Rights Commission (towards which the US has had an ambivalent attitude over the years) The news article is about the recommendations of one official who can’t get anyone to listen to him.

 

[psr13]

Last time I checked, the U.S. wasn’t the only one to “take someone else’s land.” Look, when one side wins a war, that side often takes the land. It’s what happens. I have part Native American in me, too, but I’m not screaming for “my” land back. The whites took it, and that’s how it goes. Why is it that people only seem to care about when Americans take people’s land but no one else? If China came and “took” our land it would suck, yes. However, after it was done, I wouldn’t be screaming to China, “Give us our land back.” That’s not how it works folks.

 

[TEPO]

Why not? They lived on those lands for 10 thousand years and we “pushed” them off. Or actually just killed most of them. The Israelis don’t seem to think shoving the Palestinians off the land they’ve lived on for a couple thousand years is a problem. Pushing people off their land is standard human behavior.

So true. I think it would be great here, especially considering the fact that we could, in a way, -revitalize the native culture here again by popularizeing it and integrating it into our own culture. We could regain the lost ‘love of nature’ and create a more environmentally stable environment. We would all be better off honoring the sun, and the moon a little more. It would become a giant leap towards the universally shared goal of tolerance, as opposed to the burdensome chains of sins and old tired traditions. It would thrust us into a new age, perfectly arranged and geared towards progress.

Perhaps then, other nations would follow. We could Influence the whole world.

 

[markomalley]

Why not? They lived on those lands for 10 thousand years and we “pushed” them off. Or actually just killed most of them. The Israelis don’t seem to think shoving the Palestinians off the land they’ve lived on for a couple thousand years is a problem. Pushing people off their land is standard human behavior.

In which case, I’ll wait for the UN resolution that gives Egypt back to the Copts and Turkey back to the Greeks.

That is exactly the point: how far back does one go for justice? Perhaps the Israelis should have to give their land back to the Canaanites in order for justice to be ultimately served.

And then there’s the issue with who does one give their land back to? Do they accomplish genetic testing? I’m part aboriginal (Cherokee). Do they slice off my right leg and leave it here and then forcibly relocate the remainder of my body? But then to where? (Send a hand to Africa…send my small intestines to Germany, but my spleen belongs to France? And my right ear to Ireland?) And then who is dispossessed in my old countries so that my rightful property rights are restored there?

It gets to the point of being silly after a while.

 

[Holly3278]

I think it would cause more problems than it would solve to do this. As someone else said, maybe we can give a percentage of the land back. But then again, as another person said, what about those who have lived on that land for a long time? We can’t just force them to move.

 

[TEPO]

That is exactly the point: how far back does one go for justice? Perhaps the Israelis should have to give their land back to the Canaanites in order for justice to be ultimately served.

And then there’s the issue with who does one give their land back to? Do they accomplish genetic testing? I’m part aboriginal (Cherokee). Do they slice off my right leg and leave it here and then forcibly relocate the remainder of my body? But then to where? (Send a hand to Africa…send my small intestines to Germany, but my spleen belongs to France? And my right ear to Ireland?) And then who is dispossessed in my old countries so that my rightful property rights are restored there?

It gets to the point of being silly after a while.

But if we don’t return their lands back, the children will suffer.

 

[Dale_M]

Why is it that people only seem to care about when Americans take people’s land but no one else?

I don’t think that is an accurate assessment. Consider the Israel-Palestine matter. Or Pakistan and India at armed standoff in Kashmir. Or the Balkans, with various countries and ethnic groups each making various conflicting claims and demands. Those are just a few examples. The world is full of countries and subjugated peoples making historical claims and demanding contemporary justice.

 

[TEPO]

I don’t think that is an accurate assessment. Consider the Israel-Palestine matter. Or Pakistan and India at armed standoff in Kashmir. Or the Balkans, with various countries and ethnic groups each making various conflicting claims and demands. Those are just a few examples. The world is full of countries and subjugated peoples making historical claims and demanding contemporary justice.

Have the native Americans really been pushing for this lately, or is the UN just starting a new conflict? Honestly.

 

[markomalley]

Have the native Americans really been pushing for this lately, or is the UN just starting a new conflict? Honestly.

It would be one thing if aboriginal Americans were not currently allowed the same opportunities as anybody else, but they are. There is no legal policy in place to “keep the natives down”.

 

[TheHolyTrinity]

I think they should return land back –

 

[Uriah_Betrayed]

I think they should return land back

Mind stating why? As you probably read there are a lot of reasons why returning land would just cause more division among the nation and other problems.

As for me, “To the victor goes the spoils” it’s unfortunate that native american tribes were geographically handicapped compared to the Old World civilizations, but nevertheless they were conquered by the United States and had little power to resist the US’s desire for their lands.

Next you’ll know they’ll be shouting that Mexico deserves to get the land they lost in the Mexican-American War, heck why stop there the USA should return to being a colony of the UK how dare we steal the land the British colonized!

 

[CGDouglas]

Uriah_Betrayed:

heck why stop there the USA should return to being a colony of the UK how dare we steal the land the British colonized!

I second this, finally to have the USA back under our control, and while at it bring India back under our control.

Also, what about North Korea and South Korea? The PRC and Taiwan?

It’s ideological nonsense from an irrelevant body that is honestly useless.

God Bless,

Christopher.

 

[TheHolyTrinity]

Mind stating why? As you probably read there are a lot of reasons why returning land would just cause more division among the nation and other problems.

As for me, “To the victor goes the spoils” it’s unfortunate that native american tribes were geographically handicapped compared to the Old World civilizations, but nevertheless they were conquered by the United States and had little power to resist the US’s desire for their lands.

Next you’ll know they’ll be shouting that Mexico deserves to get the land they lost in the Mexican-American War, heck why stop there the USA should return to being a colony of the UK how dare we steal the land the British colonized!

I am not American - I do stand by what the UN has recommended. In New Zealand one of the Principles of the Treaty of Waitangi is the control and enjoyment of those resources and taonga that it is their wish to retain. For right for iwi to organise as iwi and, under the law, to control the resources they own.

Return of land to date:
Ngati Whatua - Bastion Point was returned to their ownership with compensation paid to the tribe by the Crown.
Raglan - borrowed in WW2 as a landing strip and not returned once the war had finished. This land contained burial sites.
Whanganui - Pākaitore - returned source of material and spiritual
Takahue
Ngati Whawhakia,
Foreshore and Seabed

 

[Dale_M]

Have the native Americans really been pushing for this lately, or is the UN just starting a new conflict? Honestly.

That depends on who you ask. Five years ago, a group of Lakota (Sioux) announced their nation was withdrawing from all treaties with the US and establishing the Republic of Lakotah. They sent a delegation to meet with officials of various foreign embassies.

"We are no longer citizens of the United States of America and all those who live in the five-state area that encompasses our country are free to join us,’’ long-time Indian rights activist Russell Means said.

A delegation of Lakota leaders has delivered a message to the State Department, and said they were unilaterally withdrawing from treaties they signed with the federal government of the U.S., some of them more than 150 years old.

The group also visited the Bolivian, Chilean, South African and Venezuelan embassies, and would continue on their diplomatic mission and take it overseas in the coming weeks and months.

foxnews.com/story/0,2933,317548,00.html

The story created a stir initially, but faded when international support didn’t come through and official tribal governments refused to join the declaration (despite widespread popular support.)
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Lakotah

 

[vz71]

So true. I think it would be great here, especially considering the fact that we could, in a way, -revitalize the native culture here again by popularizeing it and integrating it into our own culture.

What culture is left after so many decades have passed?

We could regain the lost ‘love of nature’ and create a more environmentally stable environment. We would all be better off honoring the sun, and the moon a little more.

I prefer not to worship astronomical bodies or animals, thanks very much.

It would become a giant leap towards the universally shared goal of tolerance, as opposed to the burdensome chains of sins and old tired traditions. It would thrust us into a new age, perfectly arranged and geared towards progress.

If you have an issue with Catholicism, we still have freedom of religion in this country.
You are free to take up any of the practices of the indian culture if you wish.

Perhaps then, other nations would follow. We could Influence the whole world.

Influence the world is not in doubt.
I am sure many other nations would be watching closely and cheering us on as we weaken ourselves.

Giving away anything is not the cure for a past injustice.
It has never worked. Instead you end up with another dependency and more poverty.
It is a far better thing to simply educate everybody and move on from the lesson learned.

 

[He_Man]

There was no stolen land between the tribes because there was no concept of land ownership. That is the reason why the Europeans could exploit them so easily.

Then how does one steal from someone who doesn’t own something?

And why is America being singled out in this discussion?

Most people in the world are living on lands that were not originally “theirs.” Unless everyone is forced to go back to their evolutionary point of origin, the discussion is a waste of time.

And IF we do that, how does anyone in favor propose doing it?

 

[Dale_M]

And why is America being singled out in this discussion?

The news article we are discussing is about the US, so it seems reasonable that our discussion focuses on the US. Is there a similar situation in another country which you want to talk about?

 

[Michael_C]

If we are going to be consistant we should return the land ASAP. We jump into a war everytime the UN sneezes, with full support from american citizens. Who determines if we should listen to the UN? How do we determine when their right and when they’re wrong?

Why not be in charge of our own future and tell the Un to take a hike?

 

[Dale_M]

We jump into a war everytime the UN sneezes, with full support from american citizens.

Are you sure about that? I don’t think we’ve engaged in extended combat any time in the past 50 years without significant opposition from US citizens. And I can’t think of any war during that time which was done at the behest of the UN. Granted, the US has sometimes sought UN approval for a war we wanted to wage, but that isn’t the same thing.