US should return stolen land to Indian tribes, says United Nations

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Jerusha said:
Maybe the lesson should be-- US, look at your own injustices, before you start attacking other countries on the basis of assumed injustice.
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I tend to agree with this in a general sense.

Then again - once a country (or an individual for that matter) HAS begun to take stock of their own past injustices, it is only natural that they seek to enlighten others on these matters.
Of course the listener will wish to “toss up” the past errors of the speaker…This too is natural. So we keep stumbling along (hopefully forward) “trying to do what is right, as God gives us the vision to see right…”(someone once said).

But then of course the other thing to consider is this. Once there IS this recognition, what is the best way forward?
A rough “Blanket Statement” like “return the land” is hardly workable since - where does that end - how would it be done - and what would be the result???
Personally - I have questioned in myself, the validity of continuing the “Reservation” system considering the various problems I’ve heard about over the years…But I know too little to have any truly valid opinion.
My suggestion earlier about buying land in a specific area with the intention of building up an off reservation mainly Indian political power base has some merit but also many problems…

So - as I said…deciding the best way to move forward is really the problem…

Yes our ancestors treated others poorly. This comment could probably said by any person of any ethnicity in any part of the world.
Blacks were held in slavery here in the US - but in Africa, one black tribe would catch and sell other blacks into slavery. Europeans pushed American Indians off of their tribal lands, but American Indians had a long history of inter-tribal conflict before the Europeans ever go there.
Nothing “New” in any of this.

So - Recognizing the sins of the past, and equally recognizing that going back is not an option, the question is - how best to move forward??

Peace
James
 
SamH said:
How is it relevant?

What does the UN do enforce it?
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It is relevant to the anti-western UN because it’s, well, another way to be anti-western. It’s sort of like “Zionism is racism”.

To “enforce” it, it only has the guilt feelings and anti-western feelings of the left. The Arabs might, at some point, have sufficient power to push the Jews into the sea. But at present, however, those who hate the West are nowhere near being equal to the task of pushing all but a handful of Americans into the sea; not that they wouldn’t like to.

But I think the radical left is aware of that incapacity. After all, even Bill Ayers only felt it feasible to kill 25 million of us. 🤷
 
Armyvet007 said:
Dear UN,

Get China out of Tibet, then we’ll talk.
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And Get Turkey out of Cyprus. Just enforce the UN resolutions about it!

It’s been less than 40 years since Turkey occupied Cyprus, and the UN acts like it is impossible to reverse the situation, but they want to go back a couple hundred years in the U.S?. :rolleyes:
 
GraceSofia said:
And Get Turkey out of Cyprus. Just enforce the UN resolutions about it!

It’s been less than 40 years since Turkey occupied Cyprus, and the UN acts like it is impossible to reverse the situation, but they want to go back a couple hundred years in the U.S?. :rolleyes:
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As with the news story we are discussing, UN special rapporteurs have already investigated the situation in Tibet and in Cyprus.

un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=41717&Cr=religio&Cr1=

unpo.org/article/4072

As I mentioned previously, a special rapporteur is simply one person expressing their assessment of a situation and suggesting some recommendations. They do not speak for the UN Security Council or the UN General Assembly or even the UN Human Rights Council. They are simply one person expressing their opinion.

Here is a bit of explanation from the UN link I posted.
Independent experts, or special rapporteurs, are appointed by the Geneva-based human Rights Council to examine and report back on a country situation or a specific human rights theme. The positions are honorary and the experts are not United Nations staff, nor are they paid for their work.
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Participants in this thread keep talking as if the UN has made a statement regarding the US and Native Americans. The UN hasn’t. The news story in the first post is simply about the opinion of a special rapporteur, nothing more.
 
Dale_M said:
As with the news story we are discussing, UN special rapporteurs have already investigated the situation in Tibet and in Cyprus.

un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=41717&Cr=religio&Cr1=

unpo.org/article/4072

As I mentioned previously, a special rapporteur is simply one person expressing their assessment of a situation and suggesting some recommendations. They do not speak for the UN Security Council or the UN General Assembly or even the UN Human Rights Council. They are simply one person expressing their opinion.

Here is a bit of explanation from the UN link I posted.

Participants in this thread keep talking as if the UN has made a statement regarding the US and Native Americans. The UN hasn’t. The news story in the first post is simply about the opinion of a special rapporteur, nothing more.
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You are quite right. It needs to be noted that this conversation, while prompted by the report of one person to the UN, is being carried as though something more tangible had been done by the UN.

Thanks for the reminder…

That said…It has been a pretty interesting conversation for the most part…

Peace
James
 
GraceSofia said:
And Get Turkey out of Cyprus. Just enforce the UN resolutions about it!

It’s been less than 40 years since Turkey occupied Cyprus, and the UN acts like it is impossible to reverse the situation, but they want to go back a couple hundred years in the U.S?. :rolleyes:
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Better yet, get the Turks out of Anatolia. Give the Greeks back Constantinople!
 
wisecath said:
& the American Indians such as Aztecs, Incas & Mayans had human sacrifices. American Indians had slavery, scalpings, killing eachother with tomahawks, kidnapping women to make their wives & when they to repeat wanted land, took it from another tribe by wars. Doesn’t seem that you or other posters sympathetic to American Indians have a problem when American Indians did this :confused: Fact again is that most land in the Americas was uninhabited, so most land was not taken from any1 other than the plants & animals who lived there. American Indians were not noble savages. They to repeat were proud winners with winner takes all attitude when they won the wars from other tribes but became sore losers when they lost the wars to the Whites (poster is not White). It seems that the posters sympathetic to American Indians have the sore loser attitude.
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I’m back. Correct.

And, as I’m pointing out again here, Native Americans also engaged in slavery of African Americans by the thousands over the decades.

Just saying.
 
JRKH said:
I tend to agree with this in a general sense.

Then again - once a country (or an individual for that matter) HAS begun to take stock of their own past injustices, it is only natural that they seek to enlighten others on these matters.
Of course the listener will wish to “toss up” the past errors of the speaker…This too is natural. So we keep stumbling along (hopefully forward) “trying to do what is right, as God gives us the vision to see right…”(someone once said).

But then of course the other thing to consider is this. Once there IS this recognition, what is the best way forward?
A rough “Blanket Statement” like “return the land” is hardly workable since - where does that end - how would it be done - and what would be the result???
Personally - I have questioned in myself, the validity of continuing the “Reservation” system considering the various problems I’ve heard about over the years…But I know too little to have any truly valid opinion.
My suggestion earlier about buying land in a specific area with the intention of building up an off reservation mainly Indian political power base has some merit but also many problems…

So - as I said…deciding the best way to move forward is really the problem…

Yes our ancestors treated others poorly. This comment could probably said by any person of any ethnicity in any part of the world.
Blacks were held in slavery here in the US - but in Africa, one black tribe would catch and sell other blacks into slavery. Europeans pushed American Indians off of their tribal lands, but American Indians had a long history of inter-tribal conflict before the Europeans ever go there.
Nothing “New” in any of this.

So - Recognizing the sins of the past, and equally recognizing that going back is not an option, the question is - how best to move forward??

Peace
James
Click to expand...
👍👍👍
 
Jerry_Miah said:
The truth?

Can anyone say genocide?

It’s not “political correctness”, it’s respecting basic human dignity. Let’s try your statement out with some other moments in history:

*I myself said (as heartless as it might seem, and "politically incorrect) that maybe God intended the outcome of the Holocaust to come out the way it did.

or

"I myself said (as heartless as it might seem, and “politically incorrect) that maybe God intended the outcome of the attack on the Twin Towers on 9/11 to come out the way it did.”*

Still hold to this way of thinking? Or is it only Native Americans that God “intended” to let die?
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Actually, you are right. The US government DID practice ganocide against the Indians. Even African Americans were not as specifically targeted as the American Indian was.
One of the great shames of our country. Along with slavery and other issues.
The question is----------

Is taking away the land from huge tracts of people and dispossesing THEM, who had nothing to do with this, fair?🤷

What is the proper way to deal with this?🤷
 
OrdinaryMelkite said:
Actually, you are right. The US government DID practice ganocide against the Indians. Even African Americans were not as specifically targeted as the American Indian was.
One of the great shames of our country. Along with slavery and other issues.
The question is----------

Is taking away the land from huge tracts of people and dispossesing THEM, who had nothing to do with this, fair?🤷

What is the proper way to deal with this?🤷
Click to expand...
Okay.

The UN is not talking about dispossessing people, it’s talking about returning some more land. It’s the least we can do. The USA broke its own treaties and engaged in genocide. And its nothing compared to Germany’s reparations after the Holocaust, in the billions of dollars.

From the article:
Anaya said Rosebud is an example where returning land taken by the US government could improve a tribe’s fortunes as well as contribute to a “process of reconciliation”.
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“At Rosebud, that’s a situation where indigenous people have seen over time encroachment on to their land and they’ve lost vast territories and there have been clear instances of broken treaty promises. It’s undisputed that the Black Hills was guaranteed them by treaty and that treaty was just outright violated by the United States in the 1900s. That has been recognised by the United States supreme court,” he said.
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It’s the right thing to do. When the UN issues its detail recommendations, we should take them into consideration.
 
Jerry_Miah said:
It’s the right thing to do. When the UN issues its detail recommendations, we should take them into consideration.
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OTOH, they could be stuck with property taxes. And capital gains taxes when they sell.

Except if they’re in the top 1%. 🙂
 
This is the very same United Nations that
insists on universal access to abortion for everyone.

Really.
 
Jerry_Miah said:
Okay.

The UN is not talking about dispossessing people, it’s talking about returning some more land. It’s the least we can do. The USA broke its own treaties and engaged in genocide. And its nothing compared to Germany’s reparations after the Holocaust, in the billions of dollars.

From the article:

It’s the right thing to do. When the UN issues its detail recommendations, we should take them into consideration.
Click to expand...
Also a recnt recommendation, the UN wants
universal access to abortion for everyone.

How do you consider that proposal???

PS - abortion is the ultimate dispossession of people!
 
Jerry_Miah said:
It’s the right thing to do. When the UN issues its detail recommendations, we should take them into consideration.
Click to expand...
What are the typical results of the UN’s recommendations involving turning over land…? Do people ever die? Does it bring protests and argument?

Oh well, the ends always justify the means -same mentality as those who stold it in the first place…
 
Gift_from_God said:
Don’t forget the UN brought us the UDHR, it’s a pretty relevant document
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No doubt the UN has done some good things, however the UN is not built on a foundation of virtues - which is why it should never be fully trusted with any kind of blind faith.
 
catharina said:
Also a recnt recommendation, the UN wants
universal access to abortion for everyone.

How do you consider that proposal???

PS - abortion is the ultimate dispossession of people!
Click to expand...
Excellent point. Shows how removed the UN is from the virtue of prudence… If the UN practiced prudence, it would quickly realize That such things as abortion should be avoided because of the views of the Catholic Church and her millions in number around the globe.
 
Actually the Creeks were a subject tribe in the outer Aztec empire and conquered out their lands in the 16th century from the native Choctaw Chickasaws and Cherokees. Most plains and southwestern tribes speak a variation of Nahuatl called Uto-Aztecan so it would be very unusual not to mention their influence.
 
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