US soybean farmers hurting after China cancels contracts

[HCTC]

I don’t think that anyone truly believes that markets don’t need some degree of management.

 

[HCTC]

yes, I do, and I am constanly buying food from other countries.

Between North America and South America, the seasons are reversed. When it is spring in N. America, it is winter in S. America. Food crops are exported and imported based on what crops are in season where.

There has been a movement to eat locally grown crops all year round because fresh food is better than food shipped from another continent. But most people enjoy having their favorite fruits and vegetables year round.

 

[Kris34]

They were hurting before.

 

[Bon_Croix]

The subtitle to the article is misleading. B/c the Chinese don’t have contracts with an American State.

If China wants the beans they will buy them in the spot market.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

“Contracts with North Dakota” is just shorthand for “contracts with all the dealers in North Dakota.” That does not help the farmers who are losing money right now because of the low market price. It does not cover their expenses.

 

[Bon_Croix]

I’m sure the government has USDS programs that can help out the farmers. It’s seems naïve that the Department of Commerce would hurt farmers in order to help manufacturers.

 

[HCTC]

I’m sure the government has USDS programs that can help out the farmers. It’s seems naïve that the Department of Commerce would hurt farmers in order to help manufacturers.

Manufacturers are being hurt also:

Dependent on trade, Mike Pence’s hometown takes a hit due to Trump’s tariffs World News

continuation from above Other local businesses are seeing the effects as well. Harold Force, 67, has run a construction company founded by his father since 1980, which currently employs 250 people. Now he is coping with rising prices on items he needs for contracts signed in less expensive days before the trade war. Already, he said, he has had to cancel plans to expand his workforce. “I think this is a much bigger deal than people think. When it started, it was shock. I thought, ‘Is this rea…

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I’m sure the government has USDS programs that can help out the farmers. It’s seems naïve that the Department of Commerce would hurt farmers in order to help manufacturers.

It’s not naïve, it’s just stupid. But then, this is the Trump administration, so…

 

[Ridgerunner]

Difficult, perhaps. Impossible, no.

Why should we be forced to buy goods of a country we don’t want to buy from for the sake of a golden calf called “free trade”? I go to Walmart to buy a crescent wrench, is there one from Illinois, or are they all from China? Does anyone even know how to find an American-made crescent wrench if they exist? And that’s particularly so when other citizens of this country used to make their living making those same goods and still could if we weren’t laying them down as sacrifices to that golden calf.

Trade that’s totally controlled by outfits like Walmart, China and those who are beholding to Walmart and China is not “free trade”. It’s “captive trade”.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Why should we be forced to buy goods of a country we don’t want to buy from for the sake of a golden calf called “free trade”?

Nobody forces you to buy from China. When I go to the market place, I don’t need some busybody to determine who I am allowed to trade with.

There are plenty of tools made in the US, made in places other than China. and plenty of places other than Walmart where you can shop.

 

[Ridgerunner]

There are plenty of tools made in the US, made in places other than China. and plenty of places other than Walmart where you can shop.

Yes. There are those quaint catalogues where you can buy American-made tools. And there might be boutique shops somewhere where one can buy American-made ordinary tools. But in some places, they’re all from China. Even American brand name tools are from China.

For most of us, there are no choices. We buy China for many things or we don’t buy at all. That’s not “free trade” for the consumer. That’s just oligopoly where a very few companies control the supply of many goods by controlling retail outlets. And they buy the goods from the cheapest source, not because American-made is a losing proposition, but because they profit so much more from slave-labor-made (or equivalent) goods.

 

[stinkcat_14]

For most of us, there are no choices. We buy China for many things or we don’t buy at all. That’s not “free trade” for the consumer. That’s just oligopoly where a very few companies control the supply of many goods by controlling retail outlets. And they buy the goods from the cheapest source, not because American-made is a losing proposition, but because they profit so much more from slave-labor-made (or equivalent) goods.

Actually, if you take the case of heavy forged hand tools, while China is often our largest source of imports, they are far from being even the majority of imports. There are plenty of other places to buy tools from other than China.

https://www.usitc.gov/publications/701_731/pub4654.pdf

 

[Ridgerunner]

Actually, if you take the case of heavy forged hand tools, while China is often our largest source of imports, they are far from being even the majority of imports. There are plenty of other places to buy tools from other than China.

I’m not sure what you are referencing with “heavy forged hand tools”. But in many places, the places one who is not a professional of some sort would ordinarily go for tools sell tools from China. Go to Walmart or Lowes or a similar store and look for yourself.

Most people don’t have choices as a practical matter. If they’re sold in some obscure place that only professionals know, the trade is not “free trade”.

 

[stinkcat_14]

I’m not sure what you are referencing with “heavy forged hand tools”. But in many places, the places one who is not a professional of some sort would ordinarily go for tools sell tools from China. Go to Walmart or Lowes or a similar store and look for yourself.

Heavy forged hand tools include things like axes, hammers and the like. Perhaps 25% of those sold in the US are made in China. The rest are made in the US or elsewhere. So there is no doubt that the overwhelming majority are not made in China, consumers can find them if they are interested in finding them.

Most people don’t have choices as a practical matter. If they’re sold in some obscure place that only professionals know, the trade is not “free trade”.

Between the two of us, I am the only person who has actually presented any data. The data shows that the overwhelming majority of these tools are not made in China. Whether or not they are easy to find is not something that you have presented any data on. If you want to present data, by all means present it and we will discuss it. You want to raise prices on consumers and some spurious pre-conceived notion that we import all of our tools from China. That is really scary. I don’t want people who ignore data making decisions that affect others in the economy.

 

[Ridgerunner]

You really didn’t produce any data. But okay. Mac, Dewalt, Kobalt, Craftsman, Stanley are all makers of the tools most likely found in any store in the U.S. All are made in China.

You think “free trade” means robust competition in the marketplace with consumers driving the products. That’s a long way from the reality. The retailers control what gets sold in reality, if they’re big enough. And the big ones sell Chinese tools almost exclusively.

If you went to Walmart or Lowe’s or any of the most commonly used stores for tools, you would see it in ten seconds. But you want to argue against what your own eyes would tell you, and what anybody’s eyes tell them.
https://www.made-in-china.com/products-search/hot-china-products/Mac_Tools.html
https://www.made-in-china.com/products-search/hot-china-products/Stanley_Tools.html
http://mypbrand.com/2013/03/27/craftsman-made-in-the-usa-manufactured-in-china

https://www.yahoo.com/

 

[stinkcat_14]

You really didn’t produce any data. But okay. Mac, Dewalt, Kobalt, Craftsman, Stanley are all makers of the tools most likely found in any store in the U.S. All are made in China.

Let’s take one of your examples, Dewalt. They have 7 manufacturing plants in the US.

https://www.dewalt.com/products/power-tools/products-made-in-the-usa

You think “free trade” means robust competition in the marketplace with consumers driving the products. That’s a long way from the reality. The retailers control what gets sold in reality, if they’re big enough. And the big ones sell Chinese tools almost exclusively.

You claim they only sell Chinese tools, but you never back it up with real data.

 

[Ridgerunner]

You claim they only sell Chinese tools, but you never back it up with real data.

I never said Walmart and Lowe’s “only” sell tools from China. But you knew that.

But anybody who doubts it’s pervasive, just go into one of those stores or most any lumber yard and you’ll see almost nothing but Chinese-made tools.

Regardless, that’s not my point anyway. To those who aren’t just trying to argue with me to do it, my point is that there’s not really “free trade” as we all like to think of it. There are all kinds of barriers to real “free trade” and retailer oligopoly is one of them.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Let’s take one of your examples, Dewalt. They have 7 manufacturing plants in the US.

Maybe so, but most of their product is not made in the U.S.

“Most DeWalt power tools are now assembled in Mexico, China, and Taiwan from parts manufactured in Mexico, China, Taiwan, the Czech Republic, Brazil, Korea, Japan, Italy, or Thailand”

Where are dewalt power tools manufactured? - Answers

Most DeWalt power tools are now assembled in Mexico, China, or Taiwan from components manufactured in Mexico, China, Taiwan, the Czech Republic, Brazil, Korea, Japan, Thailand, or the USA. Before 1984, DeWalt power tools were manufactured in Canada, the USA, and the UK. In 1984, DeWalt's parent...

www.answers.com

 

[stinkcat_14]

I never said Walmart and Lowe’s “only” sell tools from China. But you knew that.

But anybody who doubts it’s pervasive, just go into one of those stores or most any lumber yard and you’ll see almost nothing but Chinese-made tools.

Regardless, that’s not my point anyway. To those who aren’t just trying to argue with me to do it, my point is that there’s not really “free trade” as we all like to think of it. There are all kinds of barriers to real “free trade” and retailer oligopoly is one of them.

Your claim is that we don’t have free trade. A claim that is backed up with anecdotal evidence at best. Even if you are correct, the next question would be why government barriers to trade are better than these so called oligopolistic barriers to trade. These oligopolistic barriers are questionable when 75% of these imports come from places other than China.

 

[stinkcat_14]

Maybe so, but most of their product is not made in the U.S.

“Most DeWalt power tools are now assembled in Mexico, China, and Taiwan from parts manufactured in Mexico, China, Taiwan, the Czech Republic, Brazil, Korea, Japan, Italy, or Thailand”

I don’t dispute that most of their products come from other countries. But that is not your original claim, your original claim was that they came from China. International trade is a good thing, it forces American companies to be competitive.