US State Dept puts the Vatican on Financial Crimes List

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DLG123

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Is the Obama Admin’s State Dept attacking the Vatican by claiming they are laundering money?

This just seems to be the latest attack against our Faith by this admin

Thoughts?

DLG
 
Socked? No. Wonder? Yes. Knees - all the time…at least spiritually.
 
Where’s the link to the News Source?

Maybe I missed it.

Jim
 
The title of this thread is not accurate. If you look at the list and who’s on it you’ll see that its fairly comprehensive. The list includes even the United States and Germany. The Vatican bank is on the list because its in the process of coming into full compliance with EU regulations. Until it does then it remains a *possible * (though not probable) conduit for such illegal activities:

“To be considered a jurisdiction of concern merely indicates that there is a vulnerability to a financial system by money launderers. With the large volumes of international currency that goes through the Holy See, it is a system that makes it vulnerable as a potential money-laundering center,” Susan Pittman of the State Department’s Bureau of International Narcotics and Law Enforcement, told Reuters.
 
From the Reuters article which is more accurate;
It was added to the list because it was considered vulnerable to money-laundering and had recently established programmes to prevent it, a State Department official said.
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Fact is, because of the lack of transparency, there is the possibility for an insider to launder money, without being detected by civil authorities and who’s knows if the Vatican would notify authorities.

Fact is, Joe Kennedy Sr, hid money in the Boston Archdioceses with the help of Cardinal Cushing, in order to avoid paying taxes.

Just because it’s the Church, doesn’t mean there isn’t the possibility for corruption.

Jim
 
I don’t think that being on the list is problematic. There are many countries on that list. From my perspective the name of the list is problematic. Unless people take the time to read what it’s about, it sounds horrible.

Maybe it should be called Countries Vulnerable to Financial Crimes.

Every organization and country is vulnerable to some kind of crime. It does not make them guilty of the crime. They’re just being used.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
The Vatican could have easily reported the possibility of money-changers using the Holy See to do a return monies via church donations and money-changers that use the Vatican Bank for their deposits. This report doesn’t make the Vatican on the Must-See list at the State Department, just the the USSD has given the situation a public awareness. The Vatican could have reported the crime to the USA due to the Holy See not able to find a way to prevent the crime from within the Vatican’s legal authority.
🤷
 
karaleigh said:
The Vatican could have easily reported the possibility of money-changers using the Holy See to do a return monies via church donations and money-changers that use the Vatican Bank for their deposits. This report doesn’t make the Vatican on the Must-See list at the State Department, just the the USSD has given the situation a public awareness. The Vatican could have reported the crime to the USA due to the Holy See not able to find a way to prevent the crime from within the Vatican’s legal authority.
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No foreign country has to report any crime committed within its boundaries to the USA. This is a list of vulnerable countries that the State Dept keeps for itself. The unfortunate thing is that they made public that the Vatican is on the list, but unless people take the time to read about the list, it sounds horrible.

As to crimes, the Vatican has its own police and its own system of law. It coordinate with Italy for big problems.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF )
 
If the headline were “US State Department says Vatican’s protections inadequate to prevent money from being laundered” it’d be a yawner. It’s not really a story, but because it’s fun to beat up on Catholics, a quick rephrase and it catches interest.

This one is media lensing, rather than an Obama administration effort to discredit the Church.
 
losh14 said:
If the headline were “US State Department says Vatican’s protections inadequate to prevent money from being laundered” it’d be a yawner. It’s not really a story, but because it’s fun to beat up on Catholics, a quick rephrase and it catches interest.

This one is media lensing, rather than an Obama administration effort to discredit the Church.
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Financial Crimes List is the actual name of the list. In fact, the USA is on the list. The name of the list is horrible.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
DLG123 said:
Is the Obama Admin’s State Dept attacking the Vatican by claiming they are laundering money?

This just seems to be the latest attack against our Faith by this admin

Thoughts?
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Although the US State Department lists Vatican City as a country of concern, it also lists the United States as one of the countries of primary concern. This indicates that the United States is known to be involved in such crimes.

As others have already noted, Vatican City was included on a list which reflects efforts to prevent such crimes.

state.gov/j/inl/rls/nrcrpt/2012/vol2/184112.htm
 
JReducation said:
No foreign country has to report any crime committed within its boundaries to the USA. This is a list of vulnerable countries that the State Dept keeps for itself. The unfortunate thing is that they made public that the Vatican is on the list, but unless people take the time to read about the list, it sounds horrible.

As to crimes, the Vatican has its own police and its own system of law. It coordinate with Italy for big problems.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF )
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To differ with you, if the Vatican is receiving money from within the USA via monetary donations, grants, or awards to the US churches then yes the Vatican does have to make a financial accountability report for the State Department. The USA has to report to the UN all financial accountability and responsiblity for each US and world business within the USA that is being conducted to the through the World Trade Market, and the Vatican is home base for the RCC, they must report any money gathered in the USA.

Again, I say the Vatican may be the persons who reported to the State Department possible crimes of money laundering…if only to keep themselves from suspension of the crime by informing the general public, via the world press, that the Vatican is aware of the activity through the money-changers of the laundering.

Thanks for replying…Blessed by Jesus
😦
 
Recently read about the real-estate scam by no other than Cardinal Sodano, where he tipped off his nephew about parish property in the Archdioceses of Boston, which would be sold off. The Nephew contracted a real-estate investor in New York, who undervalued the property. The property was then bought at a bargain price by the Cardinal and his nephew, and flipped with in six months for a huge return. Our Lady by the Sea Parish was picked up for $700,000 and sold for $2 million.

So, with scheme like this, the Vatican has all the potential for carrying out money laundering scams, and it’s probably to the benefit to all of us, when their made public.

Jim
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Recently read about the real-estate scam by no other than Cardinal Sodano, where he tipped off his nephew about parish property in the Archdioceses of Boston, which would be sold off. The Nephew contracted a real-estate investor in New York, who undervalued the property. The property was then bought at a bargain price by the Cardinal and his nephew, and flipped with in six months for a huge return. Our Lady by the Sea Parish was picked up for $700,000 and sold for $2 million.
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Source?
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Recently read about the real-estate scam by no other than Cardinal Sodano, where he tipped off his nephew about parish property in the Archdioceses of Boston, which would be sold off. The Nephew contracted a real-estate investor in New York, who undervalued the property. The property was then bought at a bargain price by the Cardinal and his nephew, and flipped with in six months for a huge return. Our Lady by the Sea Parish was picked up for $700,000 and sold for $2 million.

So, with scheme like this, the Vatican has all the potential for carrying out money laundering scams, and it’s probably to the benefit to all of us, when their made public.

Jim
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karaleigh said:
To differ with you, if the Vatican is receiving money from within the USA via monetary donations, grants, or awards to the US churches then yes the Vatican does have to make a financial accountability report for the State Department. The USA has to report to the UN all financial accountability and responsiblity for each US and world business within the USA that is being conducted to the through the World Trade Market, and the Vatican is home base for the RCC, they must report any money gathered in the USA.

Again, I say the Vatican may be the persons who reported to the State Department possible crimes of money laundering…if only to keep themselves from suspension of the crime by informing the general public, via the world press, that the Vatican is aware of the activity through the money-changers of the laundering.

Thanks for replying…Blessed by Jesus
😦
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Let’s sort out two things here.
  1. Money contributed to the Church in the USA is not being directly contributed to the Vatican. What goes to the Vatican from the different dioceses around the world is different from this money.
  2. I’m not talking about income. I’m talking about crimes. If someone commits a crime in another country, that country has no obligation to report it to the US Dept of State. The US Dept of State is not the world police.
Sharing economic information through formal means of reporting to the international community is one thing, reporting crimes that take place in your country to a second country is another thing. The Vatican has put in a request to be admitted to the EU’s banking and economic system. I don’t know at what stage of the process that’s in.

In any case, I was speaking about crimes, not sharing information about economics and financial transactions. And as I said, the Church in the USA keeps independent accounts from those of the Vatican. They separate monies.

There is a system of collecting revenue from the dioceses across the world, but that’s not the same as being in possession of the money that every diocese has. The Holy See makes the rules as to how those assets are to be manages. But those are very broad rules that have nothing to do with the State Dept. They’re really rules about who gets to make what decisions and how they must go about making them. There are other rules about what happens to a Catholic organization ceases to exist. Who gets the assets? It’s stuff like that. Not of any particular interest to the Dept of State for their crimes list.

As everyone has said, there is no complaint about being on the list as a vulnerable country. The USA is on that list too, along with I don’t remember how many other countries.

The problem is that what was leaked to the public was horribly worded, “Vatican on Financial Crimes List”. Most people don’t know what that is. I personally did not know there was such a list. When I saw that headline, I was stunned. When I took the time to find out what the list is about, my astonishment changed to indignation that they would publish it that way without explaining that the Vatican is on the list in good company and the purpose of the list.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
NewEnglandPriest said:
Source?
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The author of the book, Render Onto Rome, Jason Barry. He was also on the Boston radio talk shows on WRKO with Howie Carr and Tom Finneran.

Also I made a mistake on the parish name, but here’s the report;
Sale of Saint Mary Star of the Sea Parish, East Boston
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Findings, Conclusions and Recommendations
Authored by the Hon. Kevin M. Herlihy (Ret.)
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September 2007 On November 16, 2006 the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Boston, hereinafter referred to as RCAB, conveyed said parish, including church, rectory and hall, to Michael Indresano’s designee, MEE Development, LLC, for $850,000.
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Twenty days later, MEE Development conveyed the property to Universal Church, Inc.,
for $2,650,000.
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According to the author, when Cardinal O’Malley went to Rome to obtain permission to close and sell diocesan property of over $11,000,000, which is mandated by Canon Law, Cardinal Sadona handled it, and in the process, got his nephew involved in appraising, buying an selling of diocesan property, making a huge profit. The guy from New York who handled all the appraisals, buying and selling for Sadona, according to the author, is in jail, on an unrelated crime of fraud.

Remember, Cardinal Sadona, is the one who fed Pope John Paul II, bogus info on pedophile priest Father Marcel. The Pope, because of the bogus info he had from Sadona on Fr Marcel, awarded him the highest award given out by the Church.

B
 
JimR-OCDS said:
The author of the book, Render Onto Rome, Jason Barry. He was also on the Boston radio talk shows on WRKO with Howie Carr and Tom Finneran.

Also I made a mistake on the parish name, but here’s the report;

According to the author, when Cardinal O’Malley went to Rome to obtain permission to close and sell diocesan property of over $11,000,000, which is mandated by Canon Law, Cardinal Sadona handled it, and in the process, got his nephew involved in appraising, buying an selling of diocesan property, making a huge profit. The guy from New York who handled all the appraisals, buying and selling for Sadona, according to the author, is in jail, on an unrelated crime of fraud.

Remember, Cardinal Sadona, is the one who fed Pope John Paul II, bogus info on pedophile priest Father Marcel. The Pope, because of the bogus info he had from Sadona on Fr Marcel, awarded him the highest award given out by the Church.

B
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But that does not make it a Vatican crime. We have to be careful to whom we attribute things.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
JReducation said:
But that does not make it a Vatican crime. We have to be careful to whom we attribute things.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
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Oh it was pefectly legal, but the fact is, Cadinal Sodano, his nephew and cohort, screwed the Boston Archdiosese out of a million and a half dollars and the money went into his and nephews pockets.

The New York real-estate appraiser and broker which Sodano and his nephew used, ended up in jail on another money fraud scheme.

The point here is, it’s no surprise why the US has the Vatican on a financial crimes list.

Jim
 
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