USA High School Graduation Rates...PROBLEMS?!

[Karin]

As per the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation the USA has some serious issues regarding high school students graduating. Pretty sad statistics for a country, if you ask me!!!

Approx. 27 states have graduation rates for high schoolers at 70-79%

Aprrox. 10 states have graduation rates for high schoolers at 60-69%

Aprrox. 6 states have graduation rates for high schoolers less than 60%

Aprrox. 7 states have graduation rates for high schoolers at 80-89%

****(APPROX. AVERAGE USA GRADUATION RATE 69.6%) **

http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Education/TransformingHighSchools/
**
**Some more FUN facts to ponder as we wait for the new school year to begin…

Nationally, the percentage of all students who left high school with the skills and qualifications necessary to attend college increased from 25% in 1991 to 34% in 2002. The finding of flat high school graduation rates and increasing college readiness rates is likely the result of the increased standards and accountability programs over the last decade, which have required students to take more challenging courses required for admission to college without pushing those students to drop out of high school

There is a wide disparity in the graduation rates of white and minority students. In the class of 2002, about 78% of white students graduated from high school with a regular diploma, compared to 56% of African-American students and 52% of Hispanic students

There is also a large difference among racial and ethnic groups in the percentage of students who leave high school eligible for college admission. About 40% of white students, 23% of African-American students, and 20% of Hispanic students who started public high school graduated college-ready in 2002.

There is very little difference between the number of students who graduate from high school college-ready and the number of students who enroll in college for the first time. This indicates that there is not a large pool of students who have the skills necessary to attend college but do not do so because of lack of funds or other non-academic factors

**

 

[vern_humphrey]

The failure to provide every child with a first class education is the greatest danger we face – we waste far too many children.

The disparity in quality among public schools is also the Civil Rights issue of the 21st Century. A child who is forced to attend a substandard school is not getting equal protection under the law, and the damage is real. We have ruined the lives of generations of children by failing to educate them.

Frankly, the issue is so bad that there is only one solution – let the parents pick any school they like – public or private – and pay a standard tuition – say, 90% of the per-pupil share of the education budget. Let good schools prosper and let bad schools die.

 

[Karin]

:clapping:
vern humphrey:

The failure to provide every child with a first class education is the greatest danger we face – we waste far too many children.

The disparity in quality among public schools is also the Civil Rights issue of the 21st Century. A child who is forced to attend a substandard school is not getting equal protection under the law, and the damage is real. We have ruined the lives of generations of children by failing to educate them.

Frankly, the issue is so bad that there is only one solution – let the parents pick any school they like – public or private – and pay a standard tuition – say, 90% of the per-pupil share of the education budget. Let good schools prosper and let bad schools die.

 

[Jerusha]

Which is a provision in NCLB.

However, there are some areas where there are few alternatives, as in isolated large towns. Some districts do not have a large enough tax base to provide a quality education. You cannot deprive students in such situations of an education. Equal educational opportunity is the key issue. Closing down of inadequate districts is counterproductive. How must this be funded?

When there is a large discrepancy between the graduation rates of white students and minority students, we must ask if there is a problem with racial prejudice and low expectations among educators, as well as culturally biased curriculum materials and standards. School retention is the problem, and there must be interventions to prevent discouraged and frustrated students form dropping out. There must be intensive work with students at risk for dropout, resolving those problems which might give them an excuse for dropping out, not just pushing them out because they are a nuisance. Alternative programs, such as work-study, remedial programs, alternative schools, services for young mothers, and catch-up programs at community colleges must be in place. The GED must be respected as a true equivalent to four years of high school. After all, it is documented by testing, and a high school diploma is not.

The best interventions must take place at the elementary schools, to prevent such problems in the first place, but we must address the needs of the present, as well.

I have a concern with the statistics presented. I believe that there are inaccuracies there. Individual districts tend to play with the definitions in collecting such statistics in order to make themselves look better. What about students who drop out to get their GED? Those who leave, but it is not known what they did after? I think there needs to be better tracking, and followup to get them to return to some sort of program to continue their education, not just recording of dropout rates.

I know of some high schools who have pushed out special education students, because they aren’t going to meet minimum academic standards for graduation, anyway. The job of schools is to prepare students for adult life, and many districts neglect to provide adequate transition services for special needs students. Schools are not factories.

 

[Karin]

Jerusha:

Which is a provision in NCLB.

However, there are some areas where there are few alternatives, as in isolated large towns. Some districts do not have a large enough tax base to provide a quality education. You cannot deprive students in such situations of an education. Equal educational opportunity is the key issue. Closing down of inadequate districts is counterproductive. How must this be funded? They do what they do in NJ…take money from the richer counties and towns and give to the poorer ones…not the best thing either! Why should my tax (property) get raised because more money is sent to lower class towns etc. There needs to be an equal dispersment of tax moneies.

When there is a large discrepancy between the graduation rates of white students and minority students, we must ask if there is a problem with racial prejudice and low expectations among educators, as well as culturally biased curriculum materials and standards. School retention is the problem, and there must be interventions to prevent discouraged and frustrated students form dropping out. Discouraged, fustrated…oh geez! Do schools need to entertain kids or educate them? **Perhaps if the kids shut up in class and did not disrupt the teacher they may learn something…perhaps if their parents cared and demanded better results from them there would not be a problem. Or could it just be that they feel selling drugs, being on welfare etc. are easier ways to make money???**There must be intensive work with students at risk for dropout, resolving those problems which might give them an excuse for dropping out, not just pushing them out because they are a nuisance. Alternative programs, such as work-study, remedial programs, alternative schools, services for young mothers, and catch-uprograms at community colleges must be in place. **They are in place…but once again you can lead a horse to water but cant make them drink it. **

The best interventions must take place at the elementary schools, to prevent such problems in the first place, but we must address the needs of the present, as well.
TOTALLY AGREE!!! NO more advancement to the next grade just because!!

I have a concern with the statistics presented. I believe that there are inaccuracies there. Individual districts tend to play with the definitions in collecting such statistics in order to make themselves look better. What about students who drop out to get their GED? Those who leave, but it is not known what they did after? I think there needs to be better tracking, and followup to get them to return to some sort of program to continue their education, not just recording of dropout rates.

I know of some high schools who have pushed out special education students, because they aren’t going to meet minimum academic standards for graduation, anyway. The job of schools is to prepare students for adult life, and many districts neglect to provide adequate transition services for special needs students. Schools are not factories.

 

[Karin]

Should not the following question also be asked …

**WHERE ARE THE PARENTS THROUGH THIS ALL??? What are the parents roles in educating their kids??? **

 

[MooCowSteph]

Karin:

Should not the following question also be asked …

**WHERE ARE THE PARENTS THROUGH THIS ALL??? What are the parents roles in educating their kids??? **

They are no where to be found…

I’m not sure where they got this data, but it does not match the Census Buerau data. I work with this kind of data on a regular basis at my job, and Maryland, for example, consistantly has one of the highest graduation rates on the country. The 2003 rate was 87.6% and has changed very little over the last 7 or so years. Texas, W. Virginia, Louisiana and Alabama have scores below 80%, not 27 like this foundation’s data says, and no state is below 77.2%. The Census bureau data accounts for everyone under the age of 25, and also includes GEDs, but I doubt GEDs make up the percentage differences we see here.

You can look at census data here: comparisons.choosemaryland.org/Comparison/index.asp?FA=2

 

[vern_humphrey]

Karin:

Should not the following question also be asked …

**WHERE ARE THE PARENTS THROUGH THIS ALL??? What are the parents roles in educating their kids??? **

Let me answer – in Arkansas, we failed to educate the great-grand parents in the '40s and '50s. We failed to educate the grandparents in the '60s and 70s. We failed to educate the parents in the '80s and '90s. And we created a welfare culture.

And now we’re astonished that there are kids whose illiterate parents don’t value an education, or have any family tradition!

Talk to any realtor. He will tell you that a house in a good school district will sell for tens of thousands of dollars more than a house in a bad school district. Parents care enough to pay a premium to get their kids into good schools.

Go into Lee and Phillips Counties in Arkansas – you will find large private schools. Parents care enough to pay for their children’s education AND pay the taxes that support the failing public schools.

Bad schools drive out good parents, and then those who run the bad schools wail, “The parents don’t caaaare!”

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

WHERE ARE THE PARENTS THROUGH THIS ALL??? What are the parents roles in educating their kids???
Reply With Quote

Maybe when The NEA gets it’s talons out of the public school system parents can go back to being parents.
Public school teachers have a job which is ONLY threatened if physical or sexual abuse is present. If a teacher does a lousy job they KEEP their job.

 

[Chris_Jacobsen]

In many countries there is a two track system. The students who pass their exams at end of elementary school go on to high school. Everyone else either learns a trade or goes to work.

In some countries when a student has his sixth grade education he goes to work.

The problem is that in the United States we expect everyone to get a secondary education even if they don’t have an aptitude for it.

 

[Jerusha]

The problem is that in the United States we expect everyone to get a secondary education even if they don’t have an aptitude for it.

And technical school and trade schools count as secondary education? What about vocational courses at the high school level-- welding, agriculture, home economics, business and computer science?

And now we’re astonished that there are kids whose illiterate parents don’t value an education, or have any family tradition!

When educators have judgmental attitudes towards troubled families, alienate those families, and close them out of the educational decision-making process, what good is there in this?

Public school teachers have a job which is ONLY threatened if physical or sexual abuse is present. If a teacher does a lousy job they KEEP their job.

In some districts, it becomes a matter of forcing out the good and keeping the bad.

NO more advancement to the next grade just because!!

No, you cannot punish kids for academic problems by retention in grade. Adequate remedial programs is the answer. How would you feel being a 16- year old in a classroom with 14-year olds, when your basic problem is something like-- many moves and discontinuities in curriculum, or language differences? Of course they end up dropping out.

There must be intensive work with students at risk for dropout, resolving those problems which might give them an excuse for dropping out, not just pushing them out because they are a nuisance. Alternative programs, such as work-study, remedial programs, alternative schools, services for young mothers, and catch-up programs at community colleges must be in place. **They are in place…but once again you can lead a horse to water but cant make them drink it. **

Such programs are NOT in place everywhere. And in some areas, they are inadequate to address the existing problems.

 

[JimG]

vern humphrey:

Frankly, the issue is so bad that there is only one solution – let the parents pick any school they like – public or private – and pay a standard tuition – say, 90% of the per-pupil share of the education budget. Let good schools prosper and let bad schools die.

I tend to agree. GIve parents absolute control over this by giving them control over which school their children will attend.

At the same time, we must give every school–even public schools–the ability to expel students who are not willing to learn; otherwise they will jeopardize the education of the willing. Schools cannot simply be daycare centers for the unwilling.

 

[bapcathluth]

School choice is lovely in theory, but in practice also has many problems. For one thing, many of the best private schools have tuition of 10,000 dollars or more. I doubt that taxpayers will want to finance that kind of cost.

Secondly, many of the good private schools are good because they are very selective in who they choose to attend. After teaching in public schools for many years, I am now teaching part-time at a private school. We only allow students who get a 75% or better on the Iowa test. I should rephrase that–must be in the top 25 percentile. We also have only 8 students per class.

I have to say that my job is much easier than it was teaching in public schools with larger class sizes and all abilities. What would happen to the children who couldn’t get into the private schools?

I agree that many public schools–especially those in the inner cities are low performing. I just don’t know that choice is the panacea that many think it is.

 

[Karin]

bapcathluth:

School choice is lovely in theory, but in practice also has many problems. For one thing, many of the best private schools have tuition of 10,000 dollars or more. I doubt that taxpayers will want to finance that kind of cost.** In the town I live in, if you wanted to go to our schools and did not live in town that is about what you would pay for tuition for one of our public schools.**

Secondly, many of the good private schools are good because they are very selective in who they choose to attend. After teaching in public schools for many years, I am now teaching part-time at a private school. We only allow students who get a 75% or better on the Iowa test. I should rephrase that–must be in the top 25 percentile. We also have only 8 students per class. **And so they should be …my eldest son goes to private high school…I send him there for the quality of the education and to keep him away fromthe rif-raf in the public schools!!! **
I have to say that my job is much easier than it was teaching in public schools with larger class sizes and all abilities. What would happen to the children who couldn’t get into the private schools? They could stay in the lovely public schools until their grades or attitude improved!

 

[Karin]

Perhaps the answer to the issue is kids that want to learn get to stay in school…kids that dont want to learn, be disruptive etc. can go to a tech type school and learn a trade.

 

[Jerusha]

At the same time, we must give every school–even public schools–the ability to expel students who are not willing to learn; otherwise they will jeopardize the education of the willing. Schools cannot simply be daycare centers for the unwilling.

Why are they unwilling? Has the school set up an adversarial relationship with parents? Does the teach history and other social sciences in a culturally biased way? Do teachers have preset negative notions about what kids of certain minorities are like? Has the school refused to set up adequate intervention programs for children to remediate problems before the kids have given up? Do schools have soical workers who can deal with family problems that might cause stresses that interfere with learning?

**And so they should be …my eldest son goes to private high school…I send him there for the quality of the education and to keep him away fromthe rif-raf in the public schools!!! **

So, your reason for sending your son to a Parochial (?) school is to keep him away from minority kids and show him how privileged he is because his parents are virtuous enough to be wealthy enough to pay for a private education? Or maybe you want to deprive him of the learning experience involved in standing up to negative peer pressure and making good decisions for himself?
I thought that the purpose of Catholic schools was to provide a quality religious and ethical education for our children.

 

[Karin]

Jerusha:

So, your reason for sending your son to a Parochial (?) school is to keep him away from minority kids and show him how privileged he is because his parents are virtuous enough to be wealthy enough to pay for a private education? Or maybe you want to deprive him of the learning experience involved in standing up to negative peer pressure and making good decisions for himself?
I thought that the purpose of Catholic schools was to provide a quality religious and ethical education for our children.

Jerusha-
My son is surrounded by minority kids…he (white kid) is actually the minority in his high school. So no that is not why I send him there. I send him there because our public high school classes are filled with kids that think disturbing the class is “fun” and “ok”…my son wants to learn but the public school class does not allow that to happen.So I send him to a school where he can learn, be challenged to be the best he can be! He is allowed to make decisions for himself…but if the choice is wrong and breaks school rules he also knows there is a consequnce to the action. ** The Catholic school he attends does provide an excellent religious and ethical education for the kids…the thing it does not allow is kids that dont want to learn to disrupt the classroom!**
Could it be that you have issues because yes I can afford this education for my kids??? Hey there are many kids that attend his school who have parents who can not afford the education…but they have scholarships ased on their academic merit…so you dont always need money to send your kids to a private school!

 

[Karin]

Jerusha-
One other thing I never said the rif-raf in public schools where minority kids…so please do not put words in my mouth. I am proud to say that my son has many friends who are minorities!!!

 

[vern_humphrey]

Jerusha-
One other thing I never said the rif-raf in public schools where minority kids…so please do not put words in my mouth. I am proud to say that my son has many friends who are minorities!!!

The first card is the race card.

That will be followed by a demand that we throw money at the problem, and finally “the parents don’t care” (omitting the fact that parents will pay $$$ for homes in good school districts, or will pay for a kid’s education out of their own pockets and still pay school taxes.)

 

[Lilyofthevalley]

Perhaps the answer to the issue is kids that want to learn get to stay in school…kids that dont want to learn, be disruptive etc. can go to a tech type school and learn a trade.

I hate to inform you tech schools are not an easy walk in the park as you are attempting to insinuate. Also your suggestion that only troubled never do wells are in trades is extremely rude…