J
Jerusha
Guest
Thank you for your clarification. I have seen the problem I stated in a parochial school. I apologize for going off on you.
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Momsix
Guest
Wow, my high school has a 100% graduation rate and all our kids go to Univerisity. Some on academic scholarships. Average SAT score 1320.
But then we home school and have done so for 15 years. Needless to say at our school the parents are very involved.
But then we home school and have done so for 15 years. Needless to say at our school the parents are very involved.
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Karin
Guest
lillyofthevalley-
did not mean to offend you …here in lovely NJ tech schools are a joke…perhaps they are different elsewhere?!
no I never said or implied that “only troubled kids never do well kids are in trades”…it was my opinion that perhaps they would like to go to a trade or tech school instead of a “normal” school perhaps that option would be more apt to them learning something?!
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Karin
Guest
I applaud you …that is great! Keep up the good work!!
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Momsix
Guest
Even though I homeschool I have ideas about public school.
1 Increase pay to teachers based on merit. Grades, graduation rates, test scores, etc.
2. Eliminate some of the bureaucracy surrounding schooling. Use the saved money to increase teacher pay.
3. Get rid of the current teacher certification process, instead require teachers to have liberal arts degrees with minors in teaching theory.
4. Require parents to be involved in the learning process. Bring them into classrooms, textbook selection, etc.
5. Eliminate the warm fuzzy education and go back to basics.
My mom (God rest her soul) and my sister were/are both teachers in public schools. So I am not just blowing smoke, I am talking about what people on the inside of the system see as its flaws.
1 Increase pay to teachers based on merit. Grades, graduation rates, test scores, etc.
2. Eliminate some of the bureaucracy surrounding schooling. Use the saved money to increase teacher pay.
3. Get rid of the current teacher certification process, instead require teachers to have liberal arts degrees with minors in teaching theory.
4. Require parents to be involved in the learning process. Bring them into classrooms, textbook selection, etc.
5. Eliminate the warm fuzzy education and go back to basics.
My mom (God rest her soul) and my sister were/are both teachers in public schools. So I am not just blowing smoke, I am talking about what people on the inside of the system see as its flaws.
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Isidore_AK
Guest
Frankly they would do a lot better if they trimmed the fat from the public schools. Cut the budgets for all extracurricualr arts & sports. I know its harsh, but it shouldn’t be part of the educational system anyway. After school programs can be fee based. I’m sure most schools could probably get local businesses to sponsor sports teams (just like the pee-wee’s & little leagues). Get back to basics.
While they’re at it, have some actual discipline in the schools. Give everyone fair warning- and then start expelling the troublemakers. Give 'em two or three warnings when the system goes into effect, and then flame 'em. Get the parents involved more, let them know that they (the parents) are responsible for the welfare of the kids- not the school district. Have no tolerance policies for weapon & drug offenses- Including jail time & expulsion. Lets not punish everyone else in the school district because some people choose the wrong path in life.
While we’re going the discipline route…lets institute mandatory JROTC classes (or at least some sort of citizenship class). Most kids these days have no respect for our country, its flag, or its military. Give them a hard-line class on being responsible citizens, with all that it entails (teach about the Constitution, Declaration of Independance, Federalist papers, etc).
Lets face it…our (public) high school grads are getting dumber every year. When I graduated, there were people in my graduating class who could barely read, people who didn’t know the difference between the revolutionary war & the civil war. People who were completely uneducated- And its not just the fault of the teachers, parents, & administrators- Its the fault of the students.
Kids in my high school (an upper-class area of town) would drink during class, smoke pot between classes, & have sex on school property (during school hours). It was common. The administrators didn’t do jack (they were afraid of the parents), the teachers didn’t do anything (they were afraid of admin- or they were liberals who thought everything was fine), and the parents didn’t care. They wanted the teachers & admins to do all the work. The students, well, why bother doing any work at school if they’ll graduate you anyway? (as long as you show up once in a while). High school was a 4 year long party for those kids. For those of us who wanted to learn, it was Hell. I would have loved for the lot of them to get their butts kicked right out of school. It would have made life much easier for the rest of us.
55 minutes of class time gets pared down to about 10-15 of actual learning by the time the teacher has dealt with all the disturbances. Its just not enough time to do anything…
While they’re at it, have some actual discipline in the schools. Give everyone fair warning- and then start expelling the troublemakers. Give 'em two or three warnings when the system goes into effect, and then flame 'em. Get the parents involved more, let them know that they (the parents) are responsible for the welfare of the kids- not the school district. Have no tolerance policies for weapon & drug offenses- Including jail time & expulsion. Lets not punish everyone else in the school district because some people choose the wrong path in life.
While we’re going the discipline route…lets institute mandatory JROTC classes (or at least some sort of citizenship class). Most kids these days have no respect for our country, its flag, or its military. Give them a hard-line class on being responsible citizens, with all that it entails (teach about the Constitution, Declaration of Independance, Federalist papers, etc).
Lets face it…our (public) high school grads are getting dumber every year. When I graduated, there were people in my graduating class who could barely read, people who didn’t know the difference between the revolutionary war & the civil war. People who were completely uneducated- And its not just the fault of the teachers, parents, & administrators- Its the fault of the students.
Kids in my high school (an upper-class area of town) would drink during class, smoke pot between classes, & have sex on school property (during school hours). It was common. The administrators didn’t do jack (they were afraid of the parents), the teachers didn’t do anything (they were afraid of admin- or they were liberals who thought everything was fine), and the parents didn’t care. They wanted the teachers & admins to do all the work. The students, well, why bother doing any work at school if they’ll graduate you anyway? (as long as you show up once in a while). High school was a 4 year long party for those kids. For those of us who wanted to learn, it was Hell. I would have loved for the lot of them to get their butts kicked right out of school. It would have made life much easier for the rest of us.
55 minutes of class time gets pared down to about 10-15 of actual learning by the time the teacher has dealt with all the disturbances. Its just not enough time to do anything…
V
vern_humphrey
Guest
How about this?
- Establish free choice in education. Allow the parents to pick ANY school they choose and pay a standard tuition (90% of the per-pupil share of the education budget.) Let good schools prosper and bad ones die.
- Hold schools accountable – those which fail to meet standards would go on probation and have a percentage of the money withheld. If they improve, they come off probation and get the withheld money. Otherwise, they die.
- Consider people on welfare to be public employees. Require them to attend school or training, and also to attend study hall with their children.
- Establish a national system of web-based, computer-aided courses, so children in the smallest, most remote schools can have access to the same variety and quality of education as children in the largest and richest schools.
- Include free graduate-level courses for teachers, so they can continually upgrade their skills and subject matter knowledge.
- Include diagnostic and remedial programs for students who are falling behind.
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Karin
Guest
Frankly they would do a lot better if they trimmed the fat from the public schools. Cut the budgets for all extracurricualr arts & sports. I know its harsh, but it shouldn’t be part of the educational system anyway. :clapping: :clapping: After school programs can be fee based. I’m sure most schools could probably get local businesses to sponsor sports teams (just like the pee-wee’s & little leagues). Get back to basics. YEAH!!!
While they’re at it, have some actual discipline in the schools. Give everyone fair warning- and then start expelling the troublemakers. :clapping: :clapping: Give 'em two or three warnings when the system goes into effect, and then flame 'em. Get the parents involved more, let them know that they (the parents) are responsible for the welfare of the kids- not the school district. Have no tolerance policies for weapon & drug offenses- Including jail time & expulsion. Lets not punish everyone else in the school district because some people choose the wrong path in life. OH man I am loving what I see so far!!!
While we’re going the discipline route…lets institute mandatory JROTC classes (or at least some sort of citizenship class). Most kids these days have no respect for our country, its flag, or its military. Give them a hard-line class on being responsible citizens, with all that it entails (teach about the Constitution, Declaration of Independance, Federalist papers, etc). Hmm…some of this I dont agree with. Can be taken up for further discussion though.
Lets face it…our (public) high school grads are getting dumber every year. When I graduated, there were people in my graduating class who could barely read, people who didn’t know the difference between the revolutionary war & the civil war. People who were completely uneducated- And its not just the fault of the teachers, parents, & administrators- Its the fault of the students. **Well, it is partly the fault of the teachers, parents and administrators…who let them graduate to begin with or stay in school if they were trouble makers etc.??? **
Kids in my high school (an upper-class area of town) would drink during class, smoke pot between classes, & have sex on school property (during school hours). It was common. The administrators didn’t do jack (they were afraid of the parents), the teachers didn’t do anything (they were afraid of admin- or they were liberals who thought everything was fine), and the parents didn’t care. They wanted the teachers & admins to do all the work. The students, well, why bother doing any work at school if they’ll graduate you anyway? (as long as you show up once in a while). High school was a 4 year long party for those kids. For those of us who wanted to learn, it was Hell. I would have loved for the lot of them to get their butts kicked right out of school. It would have made life much easier for the rest of us.
55 minutes of class time gets pared down to about 10-15 of actual learning by the time the teacher has dealt with all the disturbances. Its just not enough time to do anything****
K
Karin
Guest
vern humphrey:
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Isidore_AK
Guest
I just meant to emphasize that there ARE some bad seeds in school, they may lie, cheat, and steal their way through school. I feel that the teachers, admin, & parents are culpable for the ongoing problems- each in their own areas of course. But if the students had just a modicum of self-discipline & respect, the problem wouldn’t be nearly as bad (IMHO).
V
vern_humphrey
Guest
John Locke was pretty much on the money with his tabula rasa argument. The new-born child, with some minor quibbles, IS a blank tablet. We can’t expect him to fill out his own tablet. (Well, sometimes we DO, but we shouldn’t be shocked by the results!)
It is up to the adults to inculcate the right values and attitudes into the children. When the adults fail to do that, they must bear much of the responsibility for the outcome.
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Karin
Guest
I thought that was what you meant and I totally agree!!!
K
Kay_Cee
Guest
Things that I was told when I taught in a public high school:
From the principal: “Don’t flunk too many kids. It makes the school look bad.”
From my department head: “Don’t assign homework. They won’t do it anyway.”
Also from my department head: “You are responsible to decorate your classroom. You are to provide the materials for this yourself, out of your own pocket. Be sure to put posters up high, out of reach, or the kids will write obsenities on them.” (They managed to write obsenities on them anyway.)
From the administration: “Yes, that boy has reading problems. But we can’t put him into remedial reading. We already took him out of remedial reading last year. Putting him back in will damage his ego.” (Apparently it did not matter that this boy would never read well.)
The school did try to expel some students for drunkeness at a school dance. It caused a big stink in the town. The local papers had quotes from their parents about how the school was treating their little darlings like criminals. Guess the fact that they had broken the law was irrelevant.
When a student is expelled, often the parents hire lawyers and sue the district.
Most teachers do the best they can under the circumstances. You try teaching 150 kids each day who don’t want to learn! Try teaching Shakespeare to kids who have dilated eyes and smell of marijuana. Try teaching kids who don’t bother doing any work because they know the school will pass them anyway. Try doing all that and then get told your salary depends on how well those kids do on standardized tests!
From the principal: “Don’t flunk too many kids. It makes the school look bad.”
From my department head: “Don’t assign homework. They won’t do it anyway.”
Also from my department head: “You are responsible to decorate your classroom. You are to provide the materials for this yourself, out of your own pocket. Be sure to put posters up high, out of reach, or the kids will write obsenities on them.” (They managed to write obsenities on them anyway.)
From the administration: “Yes, that boy has reading problems. But we can’t put him into remedial reading. We already took him out of remedial reading last year. Putting him back in will damage his ego.” (Apparently it did not matter that this boy would never read well.)
The school did try to expel some students for drunkeness at a school dance. It caused a big stink in the town. The local papers had quotes from their parents about how the school was treating their little darlings like criminals. Guess the fact that they had broken the law was irrelevant.
When a student is expelled, often the parents hire lawyers and sue the district.
Most teachers do the best they can under the circumstances. You try teaching 150 kids each day who don’t want to learn! Try teaching Shakespeare to kids who have dilated eyes and smell of marijuana. Try teaching kids who don’t bother doing any work because they know the school will pass them anyway. Try doing all that and then get told your salary depends on how well those kids do on standardized tests!
K
Karin
Guest
Kay Cee:
**As a teacher did you not find these actions by your superiors a bit odd and against what you where trying to do…educate??? **
J
Jerusha
Guest
Vern, variations and parts of this are already part of NCLB. Which, if you developed it on your own, simply indicates that NCLB is just plain common sense.
K
Karin
Guest
WHich parts are part of the NCLB??? Because none of these things are occuring in my town…Vern, variations and parts of this are already part of NCLB. Which, if you developed it on your own, simply indicates that NCLB is just plain common sense.
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Karin
Guest
Ah I found the website for the NCLB info…what Vern has suggested is part of the NCLB but not totally…Vern, variations and parts of this are already part of NCLB. Which, if you developed it on your own, simply indicates that NCLB is just plain common sense.
- no free choice of schools unless your school fails.
- yes schools are accoutnable but funds are not withheld but not to a high enough standard!
3.Nothing about welfare…but then this is not an education issue . - Funding: No Child Left Behind gives schools more money. In fact, President Bush and Congress are spending more money than ever before on the education of America’s children… Yeah right…that is why school funding in my town is 86% from property tax
5.Parental Involvement: No Child Left Behind requires schools to develop ways to get parents more involved in their child’s education and in improving the school. Contact your child’s school to find out how you can get involved still not seeing any big improvment here!!!
K
Karin
Guest
AmountAmount
per StudentPercenthttp://nces.ed.gov/ccd/commonfiles/...nces.ed.gov/ccd/commonfiles/images/spacer.gifTotal Revenue:$72,139,000$16,052http://nces.ed.gov/ccd/commonfiles/images/spacer.gifhttp://nces.ed.gov/ccd/commonfiles/images/spacer.gif** Revenue by Source** Federal:$1,652,000$3682% Local:$63,025,000$14,02487% State:$7,462,000$1,66010%
This NCLB mentions more money for schools…HAHAHA!!! I went onto their website and found this info regarding our school districts fiscal info…so basically the school funding comes from property taxes and 12% comes from federal and state funds…well BUSH where is the extra money???
per StudentPercenthttp://nces.ed.gov/ccd/commonfiles/...nces.ed.gov/ccd/commonfiles/images/spacer.gifTotal Revenue:$72,139,000$16,052http://nces.ed.gov/ccd/commonfiles/images/spacer.gifhttp://nces.ed.gov/ccd/commonfiles/images/spacer.gif** Revenue by Source** Federal:$1,652,000$3682% Local:$63,025,000$14,02487% State:$7,462,000$1,66010%
This NCLB mentions more money for schools…HAHAHA!!! I went onto their website and found this info regarding our school districts fiscal info…so basically the school funding comes from property taxes and 12% comes from federal and state funds…well BUSH where is the extra money???
I
Isidore_AK
Guest
There is an answer to all of this, and when the time comes for my own children, its the one I will use.
Home School.
Home schooling is the solution. I do wonder if you can legally set up ‘neighborhood’ home schools were 2 or 3 families pool their resources & knowledge for home schooling…that would make things a bit easier, as well as give the kids some socialization…
Home School.
Home schooling is the solution. I do wonder if you can legally set up ‘neighborhood’ home schools were 2 or 3 families pool their resources & knowledge for home schooling…that would make things a bit easier, as well as give the kids some socialization…
J
Jerusha
Guest
What has been in place for some years is a requirement that in most cases, students with special needs must go through a problem-solving process, which can last six months or more. During that time, school and parents explore interventions to resolve those problems. It is REQUIRED (in most cases) before anyone can even breathe “testing to determine eligibility for special education services”. So, yes, supplemental educational services for low-achieving students are also required, even if the situation is not
And it certainly prevents unnecessary special education services.
- Status