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vern_humphrey
Guest
In Arkansas, there are home schooling associations where parents band together to help each other just as you suggest.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
There are two ways to look at Public Education. One way is to value Public Schools for their own sake, and to consider preservation of the status quo to have a value that competes against the value of education, per se – better to have public schools and poor quality education than to have no public schools and high quality education.
The other way is to say, “The mission of the public education system is to educate the children. This does not necessarily require the state to own and operate the schools or hire the teachers directly.”
NCLB must bow to the first view of Public Schools – it isn’t politically possible to simply open up the education system to free competition.
I am describing end-state – or the world as it should be. NCLB describes the world as it is, with slight improvements. Hopefully, NCLB is a step on the road to where we should be.
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Kay_Cee
Guest
Karin said:
Of course I did, but it was pretty much the same story everywhere. Schools are obsessed about their image. It looks good if only a few kids flunk. It looks good if a lot of kids pass. It looks good if we are promoting kids out of remedial reading into regular classrooms. It looks good if we’re teaching Shakespeare at the fifth grade level, whether the kids understand it or not (usually not).
Part of the problem with standardized testing is that teachers, out of desperation to make the school (or themselves) look good, teach to the test. Here’s an example:
Before I taught in public school, I spend eight years teaching at a Catholic high school. Kids had to pass an admissions test to get in. In the English Department, we discovered a lot of kids were getting in who couldn’t so much as write a coherent sentence.
So, we added writing a paragraph as part of the admissions test.
Well, you wouldn’t believe how fast word got back to the elementary schools about that! We heard through the grapevine that teachers had found out the topic from the previous year and were having their students compose the paragraphs ahead of time so they could correct them. The students then memorized the corrected paragraphs, punctuation and all.
So, the morning of the test, we gathered in the office and switched the topic of the paragraph. You should have seen what happened when we announced the new topic in the classrooms! Kids actually gasped! (One kid was so desperate she still wrote her pre-composed paragraph on the previous year’s topic.)
In my experience, most teachers were hard-working, committed people. You don’t go into a crummy-paying career because you don’t care about the kids.
But the pressures put on teachers are so enormous. Pressure from the administration to make the school look good. Pressure from parents to take the full responsibility for educating their kids. (I’ve overheard kids saying that their parents kept them out of school to take them shopping, then lied and said they were absent because of illness.) Pressure from the students to take the often dry, boring material and make it fun and entertaining or why should they bother to listen? Add to that 150 or so kids per day. That’s 150 classroom assignments to correct daily.
After being a student, a private school teacher, a public school teacher, and then a parent, I’m convinced the primary problem with education lies with the parents. **I and my husband are responsible for the education of our children. Schools exist to assist us in this role. In any area where the school is deficient **(and believe me, I don’t expect any school to do it all) we step in and educate our kids.
This is why my two girls are consistently at the top of their classes.
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Karin
Guest
Kay Cee:
Oh man…I have to agree that education starts at home (w/parents)…that is why I also stand behind, help and do whatever I can to make sure that my two boys are doing what they need to learn…I tell the teachers at the start of the year I am here to help teach my kids…you tell me if you see a problem etc. and I will do the same with you…they are amazed that I care so much but it works…my eldest is in the top of his class…the youngest has not started school yet only 2 y/o.
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Karin
Guest
But Kay Cee…you have to admit that some teachers just are horrible and should not be teaching…at times it is the schools or teachers that are the issue not always the parents…lets make sure we spread the blame where it needs to go…all around!!!
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Let’s cut to the chase here. The schools are PAID to educate the children. Therefore we should expect them to do just that.
There are a lot of problems in education – but imagine a mechanic was giving you excuses about why, after several repairs, you car STILL won’t run. Wouldn’t you simply take your car elsewhere?
Why should we treat schools any differently?
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Karin
Guest
vern humphrey:
Yes Vern…schools are paid to educate but a parents role is also as an educator…no? So yes…schools(many) suck, teachers(many) suck but PARENTS (many) are not doing anything to help. So who is to blame…EVERYONE!!!
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Kay_Cee
Guest
That’s when you need to rally the other parents around you and insist the school do something about it. The louder you are, the better. Believe me, they will absolutely *hate *the negative publicity.
I did not intend to imply that there are not bad teachers. Obviously, some are. My point is that parents are the primary educators of their children. No one else will have them for 18+ years. No one else will even have the ability to oversee their development for that long a period of time. When I taught school, I might have a kid for five hours a week–for one school year. That’s not much influence compared to thousands of hours of parental influence.
For you parents out there, here are just a few things you can do to help your kids:
- Be aware of what’s going on in their classrooms. (“What are you studying now? Need any help?”) Get excited about what they’re learning–excitement is contagious!
- Be sure they’re coming home from school with everything they need to do their homework. We do not leave the school until my girls tell me what assignments they have. I stand there while they check their backpacks to make sure they have everything they need.
- If your child is having problems, check with the teacher. (“She’s having difficulty understanding this concept. What can I do to help?”)
- When your child has been absent, make sure she gets all the make-up assignments. Follow through later by asking the teacher if everything is turned in.
- No TV or computer games until homework is done. The rule in our house is “Homework comes first!” Do not believe them if they tell you they do their homework better with the TV on.
- READ. Keep books around the house and let your kids see you reading. Make trips to the library family outings. Occasionally surprise your kids with books on their favorite subjects. A big treat in our family is a trip to the local bookstore. I give them a dollar limit, and they get what they want. (I also teach them a lesson in civic responsibility by having the kids themselves donate books they’ve outgrown to their school or library.)
- Tell your kids how proud you are of their accomplishments. You’d be surprised how far a little praise goes. The questions I ask my kids if they bomb a test (and everybody bombs a test sometimes) is “What did you learn from this? What should you do differently next time? What can you do to bring up your grade now?”
- We actually celebrate the opening of the school year by taking our kids out to dinner–and they get to choose the restaurant. We also celebrate the closing of the school year and how well they did.
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Karin
Guest
Kay Cee:
:clapping: Very well stated Kay Cee!!! I am glad to see that I am not the only one that does these things…well except for #8 but it sounds like a wonderful thing so I am going to do it this year!!!
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vern_humphrey
Guest
“The parents don’t care” is a universal excuse.
Talk to a realtor. He will tell you that a house in a good school district will sell for tens of thousands of dollars more than a house in a poor district. Parents care enough to pay a high premium – if they can – for good schools.
Talk to parents who send their kids to private schools, paying for their education and THEN paying the taxes to support the public schools.
Talk to parents who homeschool their kids – foregoing a second income to educate their children.
There is a Gresham’s Law in education – bad schools drive out good parents. And then the bad schools claim “the parents don’t care.”
If that’s a valid excuse, then we can’t educate the children at all. So how can teachers and school administrators take a paycheck for a job they say they can’t perform?
Remember, if EVERYONE is to blame, then no one is to blame – and we can never fix the system.
I say, who takes our shilling is our man – and is bound to produce what we pay him to produce.
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Karin
Guest
Vern,
I am not saying that schools and teachers are not to blame…but we must include parents in that equation also. As an example…I live in a well to do area…my neighbor has a 15 y/o daughter in public school…she is failing classes, late to school 90% of the time, mother nor father attend back to school night, parent teacher conferences, get her tutors etc. The mother has no issues (has stated this) that her daughter dresses like a tramp, acts like a tramp, does not value an education, failing classes (but still gets promoted) etc. So who is to blame here…the school the teacher or the parent…I say the parent! I also say that NY has some nice corners where this gal can earn some money and stop wasting my money on an education she obviously does not want.
I am not saying that schools and teachers are not to blame…but we must include parents in that equation also. As an example…I live in a well to do area…my neighbor has a 15 y/o daughter in public school…she is failing classes, late to school 90% of the time, mother nor father attend back to school night, parent teacher conferences, get her tutors etc. The mother has no issues (has stated this) that her daughter dresses like a tramp, acts like a tramp, does not value an education, failing classes (but still gets promoted) etc. So who is to blame here…the school the teacher or the parent…I say the parent! I also say that NY has some nice corners where this gal can earn some money and stop wasting my money on an education she obviously does not want.
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Kay_Cee
Guest
Karin:
Glad to see you’re so involved in your sons’ education!
I see you’re the one who started the thread about Ebonics here in San Bernardino. This is a perfect example of what I was talking about. After all the publicity in the national press, the idea was shouted down.
When there are problem teachers and problem schools, parents need to get involved. We also recently had a principal in our area replaced because of all the negative publicity parents and students engendered about his transferring any teacher who disagreed with him on anything.
Can you imagine what would happen if, at every problem school, parents showed up at Board meetings in droves, demanding improvement? What if they picketed the school and invited the press to film them walking in front of campus with their protest signs?
Public schools are absolutely terrified of having their image tainted. We, as parents, have the responsibility of seeing to it that our schools are up to snuff. I don’t expect the schools to police themselves adequately. I also don’t expect WASC (Western Association of Schools and Colleges–the credentialing board) to see to it either.
Glad to see you’re so involved in your sons’ education!
I see you’re the one who started the thread about Ebonics here in San Bernardino. This is a perfect example of what I was talking about. After all the publicity in the national press, the idea was shouted down.
When there are problem teachers and problem schools, parents need to get involved. We also recently had a principal in our area replaced because of all the negative publicity parents and students engendered about his transferring any teacher who disagreed with him on anything.
Can you imagine what would happen if, at every problem school, parents showed up at Board meetings in droves, demanding improvement? What if they picketed the school and invited the press to film them walking in front of campus with their protest signs?
Public schools are absolutely terrified of having their image tainted. We, as parents, have the responsibility of seeing to it that our schools are up to snuff. I don’t expect the schools to police themselves adequately. I also don’t expect WASC (Western Association of Schools and Colleges–the credentialing board) to see to it either.
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Karin
Guest
Kay Cee-
Kay Cee:
Kay Cee:
Karin:
Glad to see you’re so involved in your sons’ education! You betcha’…would not have it any other way!!!
I see you’re the one who started the thread about Ebonics here in San Bernardino. Oh, dont hold it against me that I started the thread on EbonicsThis is a perfect example of what I was talking about. After all the publicity in the national press, the idea was shouted down.
When there are problem teachers and problem schools, parents need to get involved.** Yes, but the parents dont…so what do you do?? **
Can you imagine what would happen if, at every problem school, parents showed up at Board meetings in droves, demanding improvement? What if they picketed the school and invited the press to film them walking in front of campus with their protest signs? I w****ould love it…but alas in our town there are very few people that show up at Board meetings…I try to attend as often as I canand voice my opinion but one person will not make changes occur
Public schools are absolutely terrified of having their image tainted. We, as parents, have the responsibility of seeing to it that our schools are up to snuff. I don’t expect the schools to police themselves adequately. I also don’t expect WASC (Western Association of Schools and Colleges–the credentialing board) to see to it either.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
I think high school should be optional, or at least the last two years of it.
By that time they will be reasonably literate in math, language, computer skills, and other basics they may need for most non-degreed jobs. If not, then they will probably not become so in the last two high school years.
Why try to educate kids who don’t want to be educated? These days by the time a kid’s a junior in high school he already knows enough to make it through life well in ways that don’t require specialized degree like B.S. or better. The last two years of high school are probably more valuable as college prep than life prep for most kids.
Gosh, maybe give some of them work study jobs at the school after they get to senior status. They’d be cheaper than adult staff.
Alan
By that time they will be reasonably literate in math, language, computer skills, and other basics they may need for most non-degreed jobs. If not, then they will probably not become so in the last two high school years.
Why try to educate kids who don’t want to be educated? These days by the time a kid’s a junior in high school he already knows enough to make it through life well in ways that don’t require specialized degree like B.S. or better. The last two years of high school are probably more valuable as college prep than life prep for most kids.
Gosh, maybe give some of them work study jobs at the school after they get to senior status. They’d be cheaper than adult staff.
Alan
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Jerusha
Guest
Cross-age peer tutoring works in many school districts. Getting the high school students to go down to elementary to tutor is good training for those who are thinking about becoming teachers. In addition, some kids with behavioral and/or emotional problems do well tutoring, both in feeling better about themselves, and the emphasis on being a good example for younger kids.
There are already part-time paraprofessionals in some districts, who are still attending high school. They are not cheaper. They still get little more than minimum wage.
It still is. A student can legally quit school at age 16, to my knowlege. Not a good choice, but legal. My concern is that the school should still have the responsibility of following up on those kids, acquainting them with the alternatives.
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john_ennis
Guest
Kay Cee:
Adminstrators, too, naturally fear this kind of intervention. But we educators live in too much of a cacoon. We need some fresh air and sunlight in the schools. Most parents and taxpayers would be appalled at certain things that are done and aren’t done on a regular basis.
Example: for years, my high school has allowed use of headphones/CD players (yes, even in the classroom), and food and drink of all kinds in the classroom (at teachers’ discretion: most teachers eventually give in). When I mention this to parents, most of them have NO IDEA that this is the educational climate in their child’s school. This ignorance cannot continue.
Peace.
John
Kay Cee, you are right. My fellow teachers tend to be resentful of ANY outside criticism of the school or their own classrooms. The idea of parents sitting in the classroom on a regular basis is terrifying–AND WONDERFUL.
Adminstrators, too, naturally fear this kind of intervention. But we educators live in too much of a cacoon. We need some fresh air and sunlight in the schools. Most parents and taxpayers would be appalled at certain things that are done and aren’t done on a regular basis.
Example: for years, my high school has allowed use of headphones/CD players (yes, even in the classroom), and food and drink of all kinds in the classroom (at teachers’ discretion: most teachers eventually give in). When I mention this to parents, most of them have NO IDEA that this is the educational climate in their child’s school. This ignorance cannot continue.
Peace.
John
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Kay_Cee
Guest
Karin:
Sounds like you’re getting very frustrated regarding your son’s education! If you’ve gone to the school board, tried rallying other parents, and you’re getting nowhere, there is still more you can do.
First, you need to understand that no teacher can give all her students the individual attention they deserve. It’s just not humanly possible. Teachers tend to spend more time on the kids who are struggling. I’m sure you understand why they have to do that. However, it ends up creating a situation where the middle kids just plod along and the smarter kids, instead of soaring, have to wait for everybody else to catch up.
From what you’ve written, your son is one of the smarter kids. Here’s where you–as his primary educator–step in.
Somewhere in your area there’s probably a store that sells educational materials. If not, check for one on the internet. Find out what the gaps in his education are and supplement! Also get books from your local library that are just above his reading level. Kids should always read just above their capacity–that’s how they learn new vocabulary.
I had the same problem at my daughters’ school. It was a Catholic school, and for the most part, I was pleased with the education they received there. However, they weren’t taught parts of speech well. As a former English teacher, I was horrified. You can’t create art well–and writing is a form of art–if you don’t know what tools to use. So I got a book from our local educational book store and supplemented. Now they know the difference between an adjective and an adverb. Boy, has it made a difference in their writing! (In fact, my younger daughter won first prize in a Knights of Columbus essay contest, not just at her school but for the entire diocese.) I’m also not entirely pleased with the CCD my older daughter has had, so I’m supplementing there too. I’ve taught her some apologetics, and she’s also reading a book on chastity this summer.
I figure that’s my job as their mother. As I said before, my husband and I are the ones responsible for our kids’ education.
Sounds like you’re getting very frustrated regarding your son’s education! If you’ve gone to the school board, tried rallying other parents, and you’re getting nowhere, there is still more you can do.
First, you need to understand that no teacher can give all her students the individual attention they deserve. It’s just not humanly possible. Teachers tend to spend more time on the kids who are struggling. I’m sure you understand why they have to do that. However, it ends up creating a situation where the middle kids just plod along and the smarter kids, instead of soaring, have to wait for everybody else to catch up.
From what you’ve written, your son is one of the smarter kids. Here’s where you–as his primary educator–step in.
Somewhere in your area there’s probably a store that sells educational materials. If not, check for one on the internet. Find out what the gaps in his education are and supplement! Also get books from your local library that are just above his reading level. Kids should always read just above their capacity–that’s how they learn new vocabulary.
I had the same problem at my daughters’ school. It was a Catholic school, and for the most part, I was pleased with the education they received there. However, they weren’t taught parts of speech well. As a former English teacher, I was horrified. You can’t create art well–and writing is a form of art–if you don’t know what tools to use. So I got a book from our local educational book store and supplemented. Now they know the difference between an adjective and an adverb. Boy, has it made a difference in their writing! (In fact, my younger daughter won first prize in a Knights of Columbus essay contest, not just at her school but for the entire diocese.) I’m also not entirely pleased with the CCD my older daughter has had, so I’m supplementing there too. I’ve taught her some apologetics, and she’s also reading a book on chastity this summer.
I figure that’s my job as their mother. As I said before, my husband and I are the ones responsible for our kids’ education.
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Karin
Guest
Kay Cee:
I am happy to say I am very happy with my son(s) education so far (in the Catholic schools system). what I am not happy with is the public school education kids are getting. Everything else mentioned above are things that I do or have done in the past.
Karin
Kay Cee-
I am happy to say I am very happy with my son(s) education so far (in the Catholic schools system). what I am not happy with is the public school education kids are getting. Everything else mentioned above are things that I do or have done in the past.
Karin
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Kay_Cee
Guest
john ennis:
In my experience, kids may enjoy fooling around in a school or classroom that has no discipline, but they also hate it. Students have no respect for teachers who cannot control their classrooms or who do not teach well. Kids hate wasting their time just as much as anybody else does. And, as we all know, they have no problem voicing their displeasure!
You know, someone–like you–could call your paper anonymously and give a few examples of what’s going on in your school. Or, if that’s too risky, have a friend call the paper. Parents, after all, have the right to know what’s happening to their kids when they entrust them to the school.
BTW, if I were still teaching school, I would never allow these things in my classroom. I would tell the kids the classroom is for learning, not listening to music or eating, and I care too much about them to allow it.
Boy, wouldn’t it be interesting if your local paper decided to do a series on the school? What if a reporter interviewed students, especially the smart ones in the advanced classes, and asked their opinions on the education they’re receiving?
In my experience, kids may enjoy fooling around in a school or classroom that has no discipline, but they also hate it. Students have no respect for teachers who cannot control their classrooms or who do not teach well. Kids hate wasting their time just as much as anybody else does. And, as we all know, they have no problem voicing their displeasure!
You know, someone–like you–could call your paper anonymously and give a few examples of what’s going on in your school. Or, if that’s too risky, have a friend call the paper. Parents, after all, have the right to know what’s happening to their kids when they entrust them to the school.
BTW, if I were still teaching school, I would never allow these things in my classroom. I would tell the kids the classroom is for learning, not listening to music or eating, and I care too much about them to allow it.
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Kay_Cee
Guest
Thank God your kids are in a learning environment!
Unfortunately, if you’re not a parent of kids in the local public schools, the board may not be too receptive to you. That’s not right, of course. Everybody has a right to see that our youth are properly educated, not just those who have kids in the school system. That’s our responsibility as citizens.
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